Sad news from victorinox

[scrappy]

Victorinox has discontinued their distributor program. Mom and Pop shops accross the world who use distributors will no longer be able to carry Victorinox brand tools unless they apply as a dealer directly with Victorinox. I think there will be many dealers who don't make that extra step to work directly with Victorinox. I have had a business and paid sales tax and for convenince and my time managing it I would not use anyone that was not accessable through my distributor. Too bad...

[jzmtl]

I was wondering what they would do since now that they control the actual retail price, but can't do it to people sell via distributor.

A while ago I predicted that they are trying to go up market, like their $300 jacket that's no better than a $50 one without the logo, and people didn't believe me. Now see what's happening.

[scrappy]

I agree, I will just buy less. their knives are not very competative. For example I can find waves on amazon for 57 new and swiss tools are pushing 100 everywhere.

[Mr. Whippy]

Pretty simple.  I'll limit my Victorinox purchases.  If this works for them great.  But I suspect they'll work their way into a niche market (which may be their plan in the long run)

It would be difficult for them to compete head to head price-wise with a Chinese tool that had strict quality control standards.

[ari6126]

This doesn't affect the Cat-Man, right?

[jzmtl]

He's getting around it with private mailing list for now, then again they could change the rules and stop it anytime.

[sawman]

I have observed distributors actually hurting manufacturers' products in that sellers blow out their products at wholesale cost - the buyers come to expect nothing less than that low price and it kills the market.  If I want a Vic product, I will pay MSRP if I have no other choice.  This may not necessarily be a bad thing for Vic.  Just my .02 

[Black Rose]

That change will leave only the large chain type stores being able (or willing) to sell Vic products.

I can see the outdoors type stores doing this, but I bet a lot of places will not become dealers as the amount of product they move is probably pretty small.

Is there a cost involved in becoming a Vic dealer?

[Dunc]

How does this work in the UK where a shop has to go through Burton McCall to stock Victorinox ?

[scrappy]

I am not sure how it will affect markets wher distributors control the flow. I respect Victorinox very much but a look at abay and amazon will show how ridiculous their prices are compared to leatherman. The cost of their knives is also going up as the majority of retailers no longer seel their products and the competion is not so competative. If controling price is their desire than good for them. I think it is just too bad. My local army navy and other small locations won't be carrying them anymore.

[Gareth]

How does this work in the UK where a shop has to go through Burton McCall to stock Victorinox ?

My guess is that Burton will simple cease to act as Vic's agent.  The possible upside (for us) is that Burton's won't be getting a cut of the retail price and so we might see a small drop in High-street prices.  That's a big maybe though.  Hopefully Vic won't be silly about this and price themselves off the shelf, and hopefully make it simple for the retailers to buy direct from Vic.

[North Man]

Victorinox has discontinued their distributor program. Mom and Pop shops accross the world who use distributors will no longer be able to carry Victorinox brand tools unless they apply as a dealer directly with Victorinox. I think there will be many dealers who don't make that extra step to work directly with Victorinox. I have had a business and paid sales tax and for convenince and my time managing it I would not use anyone that was not accessable through my distributor. Too bad...

Hi
Is there a document where this info is written, there was some talk on this earlier also, so this is final ok.
Does this mean no importer that distribute the SAKs? And that all that will sell the products must be directly in contact wth Ibach? From what i understood before Ibach had put a standard on the prices for theire products to follow that everyone have to use. This is very confusing i know,
anybody?

NM

[scrappy]

I don't know if there are any documents. I spoke with a major distributor and they confirmed the distributor program was cancelled and no more orders were being accepted by victorinox. I assume that means dealers must work directly with vic but I don't really know any details.

[BIG-TARGET]

The bigger question is how will this affect Felinevet Tim??

[felinevet]

The bigger question is how will this affect Felinevet Tim??

No problem. The distributorship program actually ended several months ago. I would occasionally get some items from distributors (when not available from Victorinox directly) but, as a dealer, most of my product came from Victorinox (Swiss Army USA) anyway. As to the MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) it affects some but not all items (I'm sure more will be added as time goes on). Anyway, bottom line is that it does not impact FVEAP much at all.

[thebullfrog]

The bigger question is how will this affect Felinevet Tim??

No problem. The distributorship program actually ended several months ago. I would occasionally get some items from distributors (when not available from Victorinox directly) but, as a dealer, most of my product came from Victorinox (Swiss Army USA) anyway. As to the MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) it affects some but not all items (I'm sure more will be added as time goes on). Anyway, bottom line is that it does not impact FVEAP much at all.

Good to know 

[trailmaster]

perhaps Vic is willing to start selling relatively smaller quantities of more expensive knives since probably in the long run, they cannot compete on the price level to a chinese or other product. the market of cheap knives is full of this stuff and the general public doesn't really care what something is, as long it is cheap. big stores will probably offer countless options of a cheaper multitool, and this is not going to stop anytime soon. so they are trying to embrace a more enthusiast and loyal audience, through specialized dealers and stores moving out gradually of the general market. the limited/special runs and the interest in the making more upscale knives seems to imply that too. it might be my impression but i don't see their knives moving very fast in places that would buy from a distributor like smaller shops or big department stores. some stock i have seen is there for many years and in very tourist locations. serious collectors and knife people will certainly find a dealer sooner or later. or they are trying to limit middlemen so as to keep prices more down to earth while earning more.

someone would be able to make a better assumption if victorinox issued public financial results which is not the case as far as i know since its stock is privately owned. without knowing how match money they make out of knives (and if they make at all these days) and where this money comes from, it is hard to tell. But i guess they are in business for over a century, so they must have studied this before doing it and they know their job and their market better than i  do. if selling to distributors was profitable/good enough for them, they wouldn't stop it just because they want to control the price of the product. it doesn't make sense to stop something that brings you a significant sum of your profits.

[scrappy]

Big retailers will probably carry vic products but two of the largest market places will be affected. I would bet the majority of ebay and amazon sellers use distributors. That is a huge chunk of sales. I thought months ago vic was specifically trying to target these online retailers to set pricing that isn't too low. My guess is that it didn't work so they cutoff the distributors.
Interestingly wenger is owned by vic but had a distributor program.

[thebullfrog]

Wenger keeping their program makes perfect sense to me. Let the perceived "lower end" line continue to flood into the market, that way the so-called "higher end" brand is given even more an image of exclusivity by being harder to come by. A lot of people see Wenger as not quite as good quality and maybe a bit gimmicky in some of their designs, making Vics less abundant on the market and higher priced reinforces the mindset of Wenger being the volume leader and Vic being the exclusive high end line. It's all about the long-term marketing and maybe Vic is thinking several years down the line and are trying to position the brands as two complimentary product lines as opposed to competing equals.

[jzmtl]

Duno about that, I bet vic outsell wenger by several folds, giving that sort of sales figure up is kinda painful, especially they are not making more per item since it's only the street price going up not wholesale (for now at least).

[thebullfrog]

It's just a theory. Honestly, I wonder which company does sell more? I imagine Vic does but now I'm kinda curious what the difference is, not that they'll ever tell us lol.

On a related note, how long before "Wenger" becomes "Wenger by Victorinox"? I'm honestly surprised that hasn't happened yet, like with Forschner.

[glorn]

I will be saddened by not seeing Vics in small displays at hardware stores. That's really going to take some of the joy out of shopping little Ma and Pa places.

If they are trying for more of an enthusiast audience, that's fine I suppose. As has been said, I am certain they know their business better than anyone.

But I really was starting to think that Victorinox was just on the verge of a real pop cultural break (at least here in the US). The SAK is such a sexy, useful, and designer item.. it has a certain cache.. and it has a retro appeal. I think with a product placement in a popular film or two, and perhaps a limited television ad campaign here..

..I really did think the "kids" were gonna grab hold of the SAK as a must have.

"Your phone, your car, and your Victorinox."

Something catchy (obviously I am not a marketing genius).

But a white scaled Explorer for the hipster.. a classic red Camper for the outdoorsy type.. classic in pink for the club girl.. Do that whole commercial schtick where you have the trendy young dude doing his routine in some cool way with a good music track going.. and then..

"I'm Rick, I'm a sound engineer and I carry a Victorinox Cybertool 29."

Or...

"I'm Marie, I am a fashion designer and I carry a Victorinox Compact."

Even better with celebrities.

There's a real level of personalization in which model you choose. And that's very hot right now. Offer a rainbow of scale colors ala iPod, maybe a build your own SAK on the website ala Gerber's build your own Pro Scout..

"What's inside your Vic custom?"

"My Vic custom is all about me."


Come on Vic! You have a terrific and enduring product! And it has real potential in today's pop cultural market I think.

While us enthusiasts are great to sell to (we love the new stuff), you could be in everyone's pocket. You should be anyway. In my grandfather's and even my father's day, no man left the house without a pocket knife. No working man anyway. This should still be true. And the SAK is really the only vehicle in that niche with enough variety to appeal to today's "my way" market and still be small and sleek enough that anyone can carry it. And SAKs are not all that expensive really. Very accessible.


And finally, the enthusiast market would only grow in this case. A lot more people would then really want a "unique" SAK. Or at least a special/limited one.

 

[Jmora]

that's really smart thinking glorn. I've always felt that there's something not right about the fact that people think its amusing that I carry a pocket knife. Then again its hard to imagine Victorinox chasing fashion like that.

[glorn]

that's really smart thinking glorn. I've always felt that there's something not right about the fact that people think its amusing that I carry a pocket knife. Then again its hard to imagine Victorinox chasing fashion like that.

Thanks!

And you are 100% correct about it not being right. A knife of any kind (within reason) should be seen as a useful tool. What bothers me isn't so much the people who see my SAK or MT as a weapon, it's the people who cannot imagine why anyone would carry a SAK or MT. If you can make it commonplace again (and as I said, the SAK is the perfect vehicle for this due to it's multi-function design, small size, variety, and sleek sheeple friendly looks).. if you can get people to see how useful they are.. then the folks who are scared of a SAK would become a tiny minority.

If fashionable pop culture is what it took to do that, I'd have no objections. And surely the company that manages to make that leap shouldn't be bothered by the subsequent massive increase in sales. Hell, Apple convinced a lot of people that they needed to carry their entire music collection around with them at all times, including me. Now I don't like to be without my iPod.

But yeah.. would Vic even go that route? I don't know. But I'd like to see it. Out of all the products we discuss around here, SAKs are the most poised to "crossover" so to speak. While I don't see it becoming common to have an MT on your belt, I do see it becoming common to have a SAK in your pocket.

[frugalscotty]

..I really did think the "kids" were gonna grab hold of the SAK as a must have.

The problem with this is many of the places "kids" frequent these days prohibit knives of any kind.

[Gareth]

I like your line of thought glorn.    I'd love it if it were easier to buy replacement scales, just a range of colours and a few 'specials' sold alongside the SAKs themselves.

I can't really see Vic deliberately trying to remove their product from any market, so I'm really hoping that they have a plan in place to make it easy for the smaller brick&mortar shops to keep stocking their product.

[thebullfrog]

Thing is, like was said earlier, a lot of people never actually buy Vic stuff from B&M places. Somebody mentioned it before and I agree, I see the stuff sit there for many months or years. Working in retail for over ten years in several places that sell Vic stuff, I never once personally saw a single Vic item go out the door. All the places I've worked would stock only a couple on the shelf, and keep fewer and fewer on hand as time goes by. Leatherman stuff flies off the shelf, but people seem to either see SAK's as "old fashioned", just not "gadgety" enough, or more often than not they just can't differentiate between the real thing and the countless knock-offs. So many people have tried and been disappointed with knock-offs they never want to buy a SAK again, especially bad since usually they think the knockoff they had WAS the real thing. It seems the people who know the difference tend to buy the stuff online for the cheaper prices, and far far better availability (I have NEVER seen a Cybertool or many other models in a B&M), if this policy kills a lot of internet business it could be a real problem for them.

[glorn]

..I really did think the "kids" were gonna grab hold of the SAK as a must have.

The problem with this is many of the places "kids" frequent these days prohibit knives of any kind.

Just to clarify, by "kids" I mean 20 somethings.

[SoDak]

I agree, I will just buy less. their knives are not very competative. For example I can find waves on amazon for 57 new and swiss tools are pushing 100 everywhere.

When did this happen??? This thread got me looking around and I am genuinely surprised by vic prices. Now I wish I would have picked up a workchamp when they were in the $50 range. Man I've been out of the loop on this stuff.

[ICanFixThat]

Ya we'll have to see if it's seasonal or how many sales will appear during the year.

I picked up a Spirit-S for like $45 on the last big Amazon sale, I already had one but the price was too good.  I also purchased Cybertools and SwissChamps and the SwissChamp XLT for much less than the current going rate.  I've found some knives still priced reasonably, but they may not appear as reasonable to some one who is not as familar with them as me.

Part of it is the economy I think; inflation has hit these types of items as the volume has decreased on them.  I'm glad I was able to build out my collection before this.  I didn't even want to be a collector, but it happened.