The world is changing, is it for the better?

[David Bowen]

I was out shopping today in Savannah, I always look to see what folks have in their pockets for knives. I'm good enough that I can tell what someone is carrying by the pocket clip. Well I've come to the conclusion that guys, especially the younger generation are not carrying pocket knives as much as you would think. Are we loosing our identity as men in this world? Is it by choice, ignorance or something the world has instilled in us with the anti-knife mentality these days. What you guys think? Are you seeing a decrease in guys carrying knives? Or is this simply my imagination? I've posted something like this before but it bugs me from time to time and I felt I should ask again.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[Sazabi]

I cannot say for off of campus, but on my university campus, I see quite a few pocket clips visible on my daily outings; I can't say how many unseen pocket knives are carried too, though.  Overall, though, yes, I would definitely imagine that there has been a definite decline in carriers and users. :/

[Dunc]

Not everone likes pocket clips .Two reasons . 1. it advetisers the fact your carring a blade and 2. they can work loose and fall out . Maybe for every pocket clip you see theres 3 peaple doing deep pocket carry or sheath carry covered by clothing etc. Think of all those SAKs in circulation on Keys etc.

[Outback in Idaho]

With all the terrorism and stupid crap people do to one another, knives and multitools are being banned from various schools, public grounds, and businesses. Kids will get expelled for carrying a lethal weapon, and tuition is too damn expensive to get tossed out for carrying a manly heritage thing as a knife.

Most people that carry knives and multitools don't think of them as weapons. It's the damn nosy smurfholes that want to ruin it for everyone, and the terrorists have that claim to fame of escalating the terrorism hysteria. Waiting for belts to be outlawed/banned next.

Only way to not get caught is not to display or make it visible for the only few places that don't have metal detectors. I'm often leaving my Leatherman tools in the car when visiting the Veterans Administration offices. Damn police and their metal detectors. They even confiscated my plastic kubaton as it was a lethal weapon. Got it back on my way out.
Was even spread eagle "with my palms facing forward" because I didn't take off my belt buckle and the metal buttons from my interview jacket whilst being wand down for contraband and explosives. 

[jekostas]

To be perfectly honest, it took me a very long time to get in to knives and multitools - working with my hands during a college summer managing a paint company.  Even though both my father and I are avid and experienced outdoorsmen, knives just never held any appeal for me outside of being a tool.
And I generally worked in an office, either owning my own business or otherwise.  I think that's happening more and more now.

[Outback in Idaho]

What's really bad is this is Idaho. You can carry a rifle in your truck or car, that's okay. Can even carry an exposed firearm with a hunting license. But can't carry a knife into a building, cause you're a possible terrorist. 

[Mr. Whippy]

In part, this change is part of a cultural shift, which has been progressing since the Eighties.  People in general, view self reliance as outdated.  Virtually no one is able to maintain or repair their possessions.   Helped along by manufacturers who design items to be single use, or tamperproof (ipods for example), there are no visible screws, clips, or seams where an individual can easily open a product to repair, replace, clean or inspect.  Send it in, or toss it out.

The increasingly urban population has to call some to service all their appliances: cars, furnace, water heater, dish washer, washing machine, lawn mower, you name it, most people have their maintenance folks in their contacts list.

Many of the people I work with, are actually proud of the fact that they can't do anything.  They view it as "beneath them"  (Why would I need to know how to stop a toilet from running?  That's why there are plumbers.).  These are they people who see knives and multitools as threats, antiquated weapons of a bygone era or icons of the "lower classes".

For many of them, the usefulness of a knife or multitool has been supplanted by the Blackberry/Android/iPhone--it's the only tool they know how to use.  It allows them to search for and call someone else who can bring their tools to fix their temporarily derailed lives.

As for me?  I much prefer being able to do most everything myself.  Growing up in Eastern Oregon, the measure of a man included his ability to "Maintain and Fix Stuff".  If you had to call someone to fix a leaky roof or pipe, people would look at you like this ->

No real guy would want that.

[BlueDot]

I think you are right-on Mr. W.
Because I wear a tie at work, people assume I can't even air up my tires.  (And mistake me for the manager at the Food Lion!)
My mother was raised on a dairy farm, and instilled in me the confidence to just dive in to anything that needed doing.  Today, my GF's son is too busy exercising his 2 thumbs.
It's a shame really.  The world really is changing.

[Neil]

...
Helped along by manufacturers who design items to be single use, or tamperproof (ipods for example), there are no visible screws, clips, or seams where an individual can easily open a product to repair, replace, clean or inspect.  Send it in, or toss it out.
...

I always thought that was just to make life more interesting.. where's the challenge if you can see the screws

My boys are busy stripping an old tape recorder at the moment.  It doesn't work and at five and seven they won't get it working but they may find the dismantling process fun

[Mr. Whippy]

...
Helped along by manufacturers who design items to be single use, or tamperproof (ipods for example), there are no visible screws, clips, or seams where an individual can easily open a product to repair, replace, clean or inspect.  Send it in, or toss it out.
...

I always thought that was just to make life more interesting.. where's the challenge if you can see the screws

My boys are busy stripping an old tape recorder at the moment.  It doesn't work and at five and seven they won't get it working but they may find the dismantling process fun

My next door neighbor, Mr. Duus was an engineer at the Dam (The Dalles Dam).  He'd bring home "Stuff" for us to work over.  Old radios, switching equipment, motorized thingamajiggs, all sorts of electrical stuff.

Nearly everyday growing up, until age 10 or so we would always greet him when he got home from work with, "Hi Mr. Duus, do you have any junk for us today?"

Greatest neighbor, ever.

[Neil]

That would have been cool 

Me and a friend did manage to scrounge a few dead TVs from the local repair shop.  They were good guys and as we got a bit older became the first port of call to buy miscellaneous components for our projects.

New words learnt by the boys this morning..... cam-out, thread-lock

Think I might be about ready for some new screwdrivers

[J-sews]

That would have been cool 

Me and a friend did manage to scrounge a few dead TVs from the local repair shop.  They were good guys and as we got a bit older became the first port of call to buy miscellaneous components for our projects.

New words learnt by the boys this morning..... cam-out, thread-lock

Think I might be about ready for some new screwdrivers

It's so fun to watch them at it though is it not? A couple of kids, all excited about tearing something apart - they get more excited about dismantling a tape recorder than they would be about getting a brand new tape recorder!

Ahh, I remember those days with my girls fondly.

[David Bowen]

I think you are right-on Mr. W.
Because I wear a tie at work, people assume I can't even air up my tires.  (And mistake me for the manager at the Food Lion!)
My mother was raised on a dairy farm, and instilled in me the confidence to just dive in to anything that needed doing.  Today, my GF's son is too busy exercising his 2 thumbs.
It's a shame really.  The world really is changing.

Hey! Technically I'm a manager at Food Lion! (I work for Harveys Supermarkets which is part of the Food Lion family). The whole thing about folks only needing thier iphone/droid/blackberry, does that mean us who use both knives/tools and high tech phones have the best of both worlds? Also J-Sews, I agree with the deep pocket carry thing, since i'm in the deep south there are still a lot of folks who still carry old fashioned slip joints. I still think that out of every 10 folks maybe one is carrying a clip knife and one to two of them might be carrying a slippy. Still those are pretty low odds for carry, it's amazing how much the world is shifting and it's changing more and more every year. I have two girls (one 4 and one and my 8 year old already wants a pocket knife. I'm torn because of the school system and her trying to bring one to it and I would have a lot of training to do to ensure she uses a knife correctly. I converted my late wife to using knives so my daughter is my next step, least i'm glad i've got that option.

[Neil]

Round here you never see a knife or tool clip.  Aside from the other Brits on the forum I've met, I know no one else who pocket carries a knife and only one other who has an old keyring knife on his keys and he's in his seventies.  So yes, things have certainly changed.

[Benner]

Round here you never see a knife or tool clip.  Aside from the other Brits on the forum I've met, I know no one else who pocket carries a knife and only one other who has an old keyring knife on his keys and he's in his seventies.  So yes, things have certainly changed.

Same here

The only non-forum guy that I know that carries a tool is the father in law - and I was the one that bought it for him.

[Dunc]

I do know a few people who carry knives bit maybe its more to do with the salty seaside thing and boats ect.

[Styerman]

You are seeing the :ussification of the once proup/prepared male . We're just voices in the wilderness !

Chris

[Jmora]

As for me?  I much prefer being able to do most everything myself.  Growing up in Eastern Oregon, the measure of a man included his ability to "Maintain and Fix Stuff".  If you had to call someone to fix a leaky roof or pipe, people would look at you like this ->

No real guy would want that.

my new favourite smiley, maybe better than this guy: 
I overheard an old lady in the restauraunt not long ago saying 'men aren't men any more, no lighter, no pocketknife'
I bought a SAK classic for a woman, in her favourite colour. She liked it, but she thought that the SAK classic might be useful for self-defence, which highlights the fact that people see any sort of knife, even the most inoffensive one, as a weapon.

If you're feeling depressed, then convert someone by buying them a knife. I've given plenty of SAKs as presents to people, people always end up using them. Its not hard to convert people, though any other sort of knife than a SAK might be more difficult.

[David]

Here in Cowley county Kansas I`m happy to report that I still see a lot of knives and multitools on young and old alike.   

[duckman1975]

You have to blame the gangs that carries knife to harass people, they give law abiding knife carriers a bad name. Knife culture is dieing because most schools ban pocket knives.

[David Bowen]

I will admit that in Alma, GA we have plenty of folks with knives. It was just my trip to the big city that brought me to the less knives/tools conclusion. I see knives in pockets and tools on belts a lot here, the cops are cool with it too. I just love living in a small town, laws and folks are so much more relaxed. I really don't know how I lived in the big city all those years ago.

[duckman1975]

I will admit that in Alma, GA we have plenty of folks with knives. It was just my trip to the big city that brought me to the less knives/tools conclusion. I see knives in pockets and tools on belts a lot here, the cops are cool with it too. I just love living in a small town, laws and folks are so much more relaxed. I really don't know how I lived in the big city all those years ago.

Have to agree with you about small towns guess its the same here also.

[CQC-7]

I live in eastern Ohio, we are considered "Appalacian" everyone I know carries a blade.  I'm 30 and I carried my pocketknife to school everyday, as did all of my friends.  Teachers did not care because it was an interruption to use the pencil sharpener during a lecture but sharpening your pencil with your knife was common and quieter.  Besides, almost all the teachers carried blades as well.  Actually, multitools are very common in this area and you are more likely to see a multitool on someones belt than a pocket clip.  I will have to agree with the deep pocket carry as well.  I still carry a slipjoint a lot of the time and it does not have a clip, now that I think of it, my father and both grandfathers carry slipjoint folders and my stepfather carries a locking folder in his pocket as does his father.  Some people dont like the clip and I can see why.  I lost my spyderco cricket 2 weeks ago at work and I found the crushed remnant of a pocket clip at the end of the night.  It got ran over by a 6,000lb. piece of equipment more than likely.    I like clips, however, if I'm at work, I keep my folder in my pocket, it is less likely to get lost like that.   

[sawman]

That sounds like my kind of school    You have to give people a chance at some responsibility otherwise how can you ever expect them to act responsible    I applaud your school for helping teach their kids something extremely valuable 

[asupernothing]

In part, this change is part of a cultural shift, which has been progressing since the Eighties.  People in general, view self reliance as outdated.  Virtually no one is able to maintain or repair their possessions.   Helped along by manufacturers who design items to be single use, or tamperproof (ipods for example), there are no visible screws, clips, or seams where an individual can easily open a product to repair, replace, clean or inspect.  Send it in, or toss it out.

The increasingly urban population has to call some to service all their appliances: cars, furnace, water heater, dish washer, washing machine, lawn mower, you name it, most people have their maintenance folks in their contacts list.

Many of the people I work with, are actually proud of the fact that they can't do anything.  They view it as "beneath them"  (Why would I need to know how to stop a toilet from running?  That's why there are plumbers.).  These are they people who see knives and multitools as threats, antiquated weapons of a bygone era or icons of the "lower classes".

For many of them, the usefulness of a knife or multitool has been supplanted by the Blackberry/Android/iPhone--it's the only tool they know how to use.  It allows them to search for and call someone else who can bring their tools to fix their temporarily derailed lives.

As for me?  I much prefer being able to do most everything myself.  Growing up in Eastern Oregon, the measure of a man included his ability to "Maintain and Fix Stuff".  If you had to call someone to fix a leaky roof or pipe, people would look at you like this ->

No real guy would want that.

I feel the same way. It seems people have become much less self reliant, and many more products are viewed as disposable.
I personally chose to be rather passive aggressive about the whole situation.

At my "retail" job (The Home Depot), people will often bring in something "broken" and want a new item. Instead I pull out my multi-tool, and generally within a few minutes have the item repaired. (with the requisite condescending look).

Actually the other day I had someone question the legality of my carrying my Skeletool as he was slightly intimidated by the knife blade. I was glad he didn't see my Spyderco...

Actually the only people I know who still always carry a knife are the hunters. I am 25 and I don't think I know anyone else in my age group who carries a knife/tool. (except my sister)

In agreement with others, the best thing to do is to give people knives/tools. Most people have simply never tried carrying a knife/tool and are unwilling to take the initiative.

[CQC-7]

Back in 2001 when I worked in a hospital kitchen while I was in college, 9/11 happened.  Soon after the hospital managment started their own little paranoia rant against knives and whatever.  I raised the issue of why it was "against the rules" for an employee to carry a pocketknife yet access to a 12" Chefs knife was unrestricted and necessary for the completion of the daily tasks.  They just smiled and had no answer.  I think they knew it was stupid and I carried my SAK anyway. 

[sawman]

Back in 2001 when I worked in a hospital kitchen while I was in college, 9/11 happened.  Soon after the hospital managment started their own little paranoia rant against knives and whatever.  I raised the issue of why it was "against the rules" for an employee to carry a pocketknife yet access to a 12" Chefs knife was unrestricted and necessary for the completion of the daily tasks.  They just smiled and had no answer.  I think they knew it was stupid and I carried my SAK anyway.

I'm going to have to agree here.  It's simply bad for our health to try complying with every little communist notion some smurfhole comes up with - it's just impossible to please these smurfers.  Tell the bobby's and coppers to mind their business and do what's right and don't worry about it so much 

[jekostas]

Back in 2001 when I worked in a hospital kitchen while I was in college, 9/11 happened.  Soon after the hospital managment started their own little paranoia rant against knives and whatever.  I raised the issue of why it was "against the rules" for an employee to carry a pocketknife yet access to a 12" Chefs knife was unrestricted and necessary for the completion of the daily tasks.  They just smiled and had no answer.  I think they knew it was stupid and I carried my SAK anyway.

I'm going to have to agree here.  It's simply bad for our health to try complying with every little communist notion some smurfhole comes up with - it's just impossible to please these smurfers.  Tell the bobby's and coppers to mind their business and do what's right and don't worry about it so much 

Not complying with the law or job regulations because you don't agree with them?
Not to be combative or anything, but that's a VERY odd definition of "do what's right".

As to a couple of comments in the thread, I don't think not being able or not wanting to carry a knife is "pussification" or anything of the sort.  My preference is to carry a small pocketknife, but I also have a job where even a very small pocketknife is a big no-no.  That's fine by me.  My father has been an outdoorsman for close to 50 years, but refuses to carry a pocketknife day-to-day because he's a physician and still tells me horror stories of knife fight outcomes when he was doing his ER rotation for his interneship in his late 20s.  What does that make him?

[Mr. Whippy]

Back in 2001 when I worked in a hospital kitchen while I was in college, 9/11 happened.  Soon after the hospital managment started their own little paranoia rant against knives and whatever.  I raised the issue of why it was "against the rules" for an employee to carry a pocketknife yet access to a 12" Chefs knife was unrestricted and necessary for the completion of the daily tasks.  They just smiled and had no answer.  I think they knew it was stupid and I carried my SAK anyway.

I'm going to have to agree here.  It's simply bad for our health to try complying with every little communist notion some smurfhole comes up with - it's just impossible to please these smurfers.  Tell the bobby's and coppers to mind their business and do what's right and don't worry about it so much 

Not complying with the law or job regulations because you don't agree with them?
Not to be combative or anything, but that's a VERY odd definition of "do what's right".

As to a couple of comments in the thread, I don't think not being able or not wanting to carry a knife is "pussification" or anything of the sort.  My preference is to carry a small pocketknife, but I also have a job where even a very small pocketknife is a big no-no.  That's fine by me.

I believe the "pussification" comment refers more to a society that fears someone who choses to carry a pocketknife, not really the individual who chooses not to carry.  However as a corollary, when the majority of people around you view knife carrying as suspicious and menacing, there is significant tacit pressure to not carry even if you want to.

My father has been an outdoorsman for close to 50 years, but refuses to carry a pocketknife day-to-day because he's a physician and still tells me horror stories of knife fight outcomes when he was doing his ER rotation for his interneship in his late 20s.  What does that make him?

This defies logical thought really.  Did he see car accident victims? Does he avoid driving or riding in cars?  Also, how does carrying a pocket knife equate to knife fight?   Answer:  It doesn't any more than carrying a hammer equates with bludgeoning.

The reality is, up until very recently, most physicians carried very sharp pocket knives, designed to function as scalpels in a pinch.

Just food for thought.

[jekostas]

The reality is, up until very recently, most physicians carried very sharp pocket knives, designed to function as scalpels in a pinch.

Just food for thought.

Define "recently".  My father's in his early 60s, and I know a significant number of physicians (through him) that are also outdoorsmen that don't carry pocket knives either.  I've hiked with a number of them as well.