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Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth 86216

Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,263 Aggressive in defence
Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« on: October 09, 2007, 07:57:38 PM »
Many of us on here have wondered about why the pliers on the Swisstool have changed , for instance in this picture by Jsews  ( Bob )


Well all this talk about the pliers and no real answer prompted me into emailing Mr Robert Elsener from Victorinox . I have asked him questions in the past and he has always been very helpfull and quick to reply . Well this time is no exception with a full explanation .....

Dear Mr Moore

 

Thank you for your mail dated 07th October 2007 and being interested in our products. We are pleased to answer your question.

 

All adjustments (fixing) made on our «SwissTool» and «SwissTool Spirit» are recorded and valuated by our customer service. By means of this analysis we are able to optimize the quality and functionality. Your question about the pliers' construction details has been discussed on an Internet forum some month ago. A user mentioned a theory what exactly nailed our intention.

 

 

If you twist a pair of pliers in either direction, the maximum torque until breakage is different. Most pliers are less strong when you twist something counter-clockwise, as if you were trying to loosen a bolt or remove a screw. Counter-clockwise tends to spread the pliers tip apart, whereas clockwise twisting will force the pliers half against one another and be stronger. That's the reason why we reversed the pivot on our SwissTool and SwissTool Spirit new pliers head design.

 

If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

 

Yours sincerely



VICTORINOX

 

Quality manager

Executive Master of Business Excellence

Robert Elsener


But the best bit is this picture he sent . Feast your eyes on this



It really makes sense doesnt it , you are far more likely to crank down hard on a frozen nut or bolt to get it undone but mostly when doing a nut up you stop when its tight and dont keep applying pressure .

You may need to scrole to the right on the picture to see the 2005 model as its really wide

Dunc
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 08:02:09 PM by dunc5 »


No Life Club Posts: 4,542 Hello...is this thing on?
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2007, 08:09:55 PM »
Most excellent work dunc! That means mine is a 1998 model, very nice to know. The 2005 model looks much chunkier than the original....and thats saying something!

Life is like a sandwich...the older it gets the crustier it becomes!
Sr. Member Posts: 486
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 08:39:16 PM »
... The 2005 model looks much chunkier than the original...
Another great side-effect of Lifetime Warranty. Vic has every incentive to make sure things do not break easily!  ;D
Great job on the enquiry, and the picture is great, probably should be uploaded to SAKWiki under Pliers section...
Alexei

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Alexei
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon all hope ye who enter here... Posts: 43,126 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 09:53:20 PM »
Great job mate, looks as though I've got a 05 :)

And that a bloody quick reply from Victorinox too :o

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
No Life Club Posts: 1,765
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 10:04:02 PM »
Mine would appear to be a 2005 model also .You can't Victorinox for customer service
No Life Club Posts: 1,946 Marsh-wiggle
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2007, 10:08:50 PM »
Cool pic Dunc! And very nice that Vic would humor us MT-nuts :D The new design makes sense to me for the reasons you said. A side question... Anyone else think the pliar design looks less and less LM-ish as the years go by?
Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,263 Aggressive in defence
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2007, 10:29:23 PM »
Anyone else think the pliar design looks less and less LM-ish as the years go by?
Yes very much so , I guess over the last few years Vic has been working out ways of improving the design and although the original folding plier design is credited to Leatherman ( although some may dissagree with this ) vic has been doing its own thing .
  Notice how with the exception of the spirit how Victorinox keep improving the existing design without the need to keep bringing out new models each year like some companys which 90% of all do the same thing but just dressed in new clothes .

Dunc
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon all hope ye who enter here... Posts: 43,126 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2007, 10:33:25 PM »
Evolution not revolution, and long my it continue :)

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
No Life Club Posts: 1,946 Marsh-wiggle
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 10:41:16 PM »
Now that I think about it, LM's and Vic's pliars made at least similar change since 97. They both widened the pivot area, although they look more different now since LM's is more oval while Vic's is more stocky and squared-off. Must be a good idea if both companies are doing it :)
Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,263 Aggressive in defence
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2007, 10:44:27 PM »
Now that I think about it, LM's and Vic's pliars made at least similar change since 97. They both widened the pivot area, although they look more different now since LM's is more oval while Vic's is more stocky and squared-off. Must be a good idea if both companies are doing it :)

Although LMs still hinge the other way to the newer Vics .

dunc
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon all hope ye who enter here... Posts: 43,126 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2007, 10:45:14 PM »
Now that I think about it, LM's and Vic's pliars made at least similar change since 97. They both widened the pivot area, although they look more different now since LM's is more oval while Vic's is more stocky and squared-off. Must be a good idea if both companies are doing it :)
Certainly make it a lot harder to break either of them :), should give there warranty department's less sleepless nights too ;D

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
No Life Club Posts: 1,946 Marsh-wiggle
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2007, 10:58:21 PM »
The new design makes sense to me for the reasons you said.
Sorry to quote myself :D but the more I think about this the more confused I'm getting.
If you twist a pair of pliers in either direction, the maximum torque until breakage is different. Most pliers are less strong when you twist something counter-clockwise, as if you were trying to loosen a bolt or remove a screw. Counter-clockwise tends to spread the pliers tip apart, whereas clockwise twisting will force the pliers half against one another and be stronger.
This still makes sense to me in an intuitive way, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the physics of this. Can anyone help me out?  ???
No Life Club Posts: 2,880
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2007, 01:03:16 AM »
Really interesting stuff Dunc. I love "evolution" pics. Really gives you a chance to see how things are improved over time.

"
Sr. Member Posts: 486
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2007, 03:37:56 AM »
I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei
24.7 kB | 428x430

-------
Alexei
Admin Team Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 23,280
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2007, 04:14:06 AM »
Thanks for posting this Dunc, and thank you Victorinox for supplying the information!!  :)


Dear Mr Moore

Thank you for your mail dated 07th October 2007 and being interested in our products. We are pleased to answer your question.

All adjustments (fixing) made on our «SwissTool» and «SwissTool Spirit» are recorded and valuated by our customer service. By means of this analysis we are able to optimize the quality and functionality. Your question about the pliers' construction details has been discussed on an Internet forum some month ago. A user mentioned a theory what exactly nailed our intention.

If you twist a pair of pliers in either direction, the maximum torque until breakage is different. Most pliers are less strong when you twist something counter-clockwise, as if you were trying to loosen a bolt or remove a screw. Counter-clockwise tends to spread the pliers tip apart, whereas clockwise twisting will force the pliers half against one another and be stronger. That's the reason why we reversed the pivot on our SwissTool and SwissTool Spirit new pliers head design.

If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely
VICTORINOX
Quality manager
Executive Master of Business Excellence
Robert Elsener


Hey, I just realized that the internet forum Mr. Elsener is referring to is us! Link to thread from January:  http://forum.multitool.or...ndex.php/topic,649.0.html


In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools
No Life Club Posts: 3,998 Improvise.
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2007, 04:54:06 AM »
...so we are being watched... 8)

Great thread BTW...I don't even own a SwissTool and I find this interesting ;D

[
Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,263 Aggressive in defence
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2007, 05:40:32 AM »
...

Great thread BTW...I don't even own a SwissTool and I find this interesting ;D

 :o  :o  :pok:  :pok:  :pok:  you know you want one  ;D

Dunc
No Life Club Posts: 3,998 Improvise.
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2007, 05:43:26 AM »
I've had a Spirit for a few days (haven't used it yet though), and it's niiiice :multi:

There's a few other items I want before I look into getting a full size SwissTool..

[
Full Member Posts: 126
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2007, 06:40:19 AM »
Great post. Thanks for the info. I wonder why other tool manufacturers haven't gone that route?
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon all hope ye who enter here... Posts: 43,126 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2007, 08:52:51 AM »
I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei
Thank's for the diagram, that clears things up nicely :cheers:

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 55,950 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2007, 02:42:07 PM »
Quote
...so we are  being watched...

I told you guys that manufacturers had their eyes on us... maybe now you'll listen! :P

Def





No Life Club Posts: 1,946 Marsh-wiggle
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2007, 09:37:22 PM »
I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei
Thanks for the picture. I was picturing the pliars parallel to the bolt head, not perpendicular. Makes more sense now :)
Hero Member Posts: 967
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2007, 10:42:13 PM »
Great post dunc. Very interesting to see the pictures of all the different plier heads.

Sounds like Victorinox are damn good when it comes to customer services. I've never had to use them as I haven't had one break but it gives you a lot of confidence to know what they're like  :)

[
Admin Team Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 23,280
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2007, 02:54:37 AM »
I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei

Great sketch ufox9al, that really demonstrates the theory well!

BTW, I'd like to add some plier-head details to the SwissTool page at both SAKWiki and the Multitool Encyclopedia. If you don't mind, I'd like to use your sketch at both sites.

Bob

In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools
Sr. Member Posts: 486
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2007, 05:10:16 PM »
Bob, of course, please feel free to upload the sketch to both sites. If you would like to make any changes, I will gladly forward you the Visio file, which is what I used to slap it together.
Alexei

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Alexei
Hero Member Posts: 840
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2007, 07:22:11 PM »
 OK ....so now I need to buy all the others....Thanks guys  :twak:

  Pictures tell a better History  :multi:

 Very Nice ! How the 2010 will look like ?  :grin:

 M.TEX

M
Admin Team Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 23,280
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2007, 03:13:02 AM »

 Very Nice ! How the 2010 will look like ?  :grin:

 M.TEX


Hehe.... ;)
58.54 kB | 943x242

In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools
No Life Club Posts: 1,946 Marsh-wiggle
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2007, 03:25:33 AM »
WOW :o They'll have to start a service center for all the broken belts they cause! ;D
Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,263 Aggressive in defence
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2007, 09:21:12 PM »
2010 I think we will all be talking about the Swisstool spirit mustang  ;)

Dunc
Admin Team Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 23,280
Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2007, 12:06:11 AM »
Just added this info to the Encyclopedia. Scroll down to the bottom of the SwissTool page HERE and click on Dunc's plier head picture.

Bob

In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools

 

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