Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth

Dunc · **on:** October 09, 2007, 07:57:38 PM

Many of us on here have wondered about why the pliers on the Swisstool have changed , for instance in this picture by Jsews ( Bob )

Well all this talk about the pliers and no real answer prompted me into emailing Mr Robert Elsener from Victorinox . I have asked him questions in the past and he has always been very helpfull and quick to reply . Well this time is no exception with a full explanation .....

^{Dear Mr Moore

Thank you for your mail dated 07th October 2007 and being interested in our products. We are pleased to answer your question.

All adjustments (fixing) made on our «SwissTool» and «SwissTool Spirit» are recorded and valuated by our customer service. By means of this analysis we are able to optimize the quality and functionality. Your question about the pliers' construction details has been discussed on an Internet forum some month ago. A user mentioned a theory what exactly nailed our intention.

If you twist a pair of pliers in either direction, the maximum torque until breakage is different. Most pliers are less strong when you twist something counter-clockwise, as if you were trying to loosen a bolt or remove a screw. Counter-clockwise tends to spread the pliers tip apart, whereas clockwise twisting will force the pliers half against one another and be stronger. That's the reason why we reversed the pivot on our SwissTool and SwissTool Spirit new pliers head design.

If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely

VICTORINOX

Quality manager

Executive Master of Business Excellence

Robert Elsener}

But the best bit is this picture he sent . Feast your eyes on this

It really makes sense doesnt it , you are far more likely to crank down hard on a frozen nut or bolt to get it undone but mostly when doing a nut up you stop when its tight and dont keep applying pressure .

You may need to scrole to the right on the picture to see the 2005 model as its really wide

Dunc

Roadie · **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2007, 08:09:55 PM

Most excellent work dunc! That means mine is a 1998 model, very nice to know. The 2005 model looks much chunkier than the original....and thats saying something!

ufox9al · **Reply #2 on:** October 09, 2007, 08:39:16 PM

Quote from: Roadie on October 09, 2007, 08:09:55 PM

... The 2005 model looks much chunkier than the original...

Another great side-effect of Lifetime Warranty. Vic has every incentive to make sure things do not break easily! ;D
Great job on the enquiry, and the picture is great, probably should be uploaded to SAKWiki under Pliers section...
Alexei

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #3 on:** October 09, 2007, 09:53:20 PM

Great job mate, looks as though I've got a 05

And that a bloody quick reply from Victorinox too

jock1 · **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2007, 10:04:02 PM

Mine would appear to be a 2005 model also .You can't Victorinox for customer service

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2007, 10:08:50 PM

Cool pic Dunc! And very nice that Vic would humor us MT-nuts

The new design makes sense to me for the reasons you said. A side question... Anyone else think the pliar design looks less and less LM-ish as the years go by?

Dunc · **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2007, 10:29:23 PM

Quote from: NeitherExtreme on October 09, 2007, 10:08:50 PM

Anyone else think the pliar design looks less and less LM-ish as the years go by?

Yes very much so , I guess over the last few years Vic has been working out ways of improving the design and although the original folding plier design is credited to Leatherman ( although some may dissagree with this ) vic has been doing its own thing .
Notice how with the exception of the spirit how Victorinox keep improving the existing design without the need to keep bringing out new models each year like some companys which 90% of all do the same thing but just dressed in new clothes .

Dunc

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2007, 10:33:25 PM

Evolution not revolution, and long my it continue

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #8 on:** October 09, 2007, 10:41:16 PM

Now that I think about it, LM's and Vic's pliars made at least similar change since 97. They both widened the pivot area, although they look more different now since LM's is more oval while Vic's is more stocky and squared-off. Must be a good idea if both companies are doing it

Dunc · **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 2007, 10:44:27 PM

Quote from: NeitherExtreme on October 09, 2007, 10:41:16 PM

Now that I think about it, LM's and Vic's pliars made at least similar change since 97. They both widened the pivot area, although they look more different now since LM's is more oval while Vic's is more stocky and squared-off. Must be a good idea if both companies are doing it

Although LMs still hinge the other way to the newer Vics .

dunc

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #10 on:** October 09, 2007, 10:45:14 PM

Quote from: NeitherExtreme on October 09, 2007, 10:41:16 PM

Now that I think about it, LM's and Vic's pliars made at least similar change since 97. They both widened the pivot area, although they look more different now since LM's is more oval while Vic's is more stocky and squared-off. Must be a good idea if both companies are doing it

Certainly make it a lot harder to break either of them

, should give there warranty department's less sleepless nights too ;D

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #11 on:** October 09, 2007, 10:58:21 PM

Quote from: NeitherExtreme on October 09, 2007, 10:08:50 PM

The new design makes sense to me for the reasons you said.

Sorry to quote myself

but the more I think about this the more confused I'm getting.

Quote from: dunc5 on October 09, 2007, 07:57:38 PM

If you twist a pair of pliers in either direction, the maximum torque until breakage is different. Most pliers are less strong when you twist something counter-clockwise, as if you were trying to loosen a bolt or remove a screw. Counter-clockwise tends to spread the pliers tip apart, whereas clockwise twisting will force the pliers half against one another and be stronger.

This still makes sense to me in an intuitive way, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the physics of this. Can anyone help me out?

prime77 · **Reply #12 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:03:16 AM

Really interesting stuff Dunc. I love "evolution" pics. Really gives you a chance to see how things are improved over time.

ufox9al · **Reply #13 on:** October 10, 2007, 03:37:56 AM

I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei

J-sews · **Reply #14 on:** October 10, 2007, 04:14:06 AM

Thanks for posting this Dunc, and thank you Victorinox for supplying the information!!

Quote from: dunc5 on October 09, 2007, 07:57:38 PM

^{Dear Mr Moore

Thank you for your mail dated 07th October 2007 and being interested in our products. We are pleased to answer your question.

All adjustments (fixing) made on our «SwissTool» and «SwissTool Spirit» are recorded and valuated by our customer service. By means of this analysis we are able to optimize the quality and functionality. Your question about the pliers' construction details has been discussed on an Internet forum some month ago. A user mentioned a theory what exactly nailed our intention.

If you twist a pair of pliers in either direction, the maximum torque until breakage is different. Most pliers are less strong when you twist something counter-clockwise, as if you were trying to loosen a bolt or remove a screw. Counter-clockwise tends to spread the pliers tip apart, whereas clockwise twisting will force the pliers half against one another and be stronger. That's the reason why we reversed the pivot on our SwissTool and SwissTool Spirit new pliers head design.

If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely
VICTORINOX
Quality manager
Executive Master of Business Excellence
Robert Elsener}

Hey, I just realized that the internet forum Mr. Elsener is referring to is us! Link to thread from January: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,649.0.html

Anthony · **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2007, 04:54:06 AM

...so we are being watched...

Great thread BTW...I don't even own a SwissTool and I find this interesting ;D

Dunc · **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:40:32 AM

Quote from: Corrugated on October 10, 2007, 04:54:06 AM

...

Great thread BTW...I don't even own a SwissTool and I find this interesting ;D

you know you want one ;D

Dunc

Anthony · **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:43:26 AM

I've had a Spirit for a few days (haven't used it yet though), and it's niiiice

There's a few other items I want before I look into getting a full size SwissTool..

tomcrx · **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2007, 06:40:19 AM

Great post. Thanks for the info. I wonder why other tool manufacturers haven't gone that route?

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #19 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:52:51 AM

Quote from: ufox9al on October 10, 2007, 03:37:56 AM

I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei

Thank's for the diagram, that clears things up nicely

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2007, 02:42:07 PM

Quote

...so we are being watched...

I told you guys that manufacturers had their eyes on us... maybe now you'll listen!

Def

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:37:22 PM

Quote from: ufox9al on October 10, 2007, 03:37:56 AM

I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei

Thanks for the picture. I was picturing the pliars parallel to the bolt head, not perpendicular. Makes more sense now

cryptrick · **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2007, 10:42:13 PM

Great post dunc. Very interesting to see the pictures of all the different plier heads.

Sounds like Victorinox are damn good when it comes to customer services. I've never had to use them as I haven't had one break but it gives you a lot of confidence to know what they're like

J-sews · **Reply #23 on:** October 11, 2007, 02:54:37 AM

Quote from: ufox9al on October 10, 2007, 03:37:56 AM

I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei

Great sketch ufox9al, that really demonstrates the theory well!

BTW, I'd like to add some plier-head details to the SwissTool page at both SAKWiki and the Multitool Encyclopedia. If you don't mind, I'd like to use your sketch at both sites.

Bob

ufox9al · **Reply #24 on:** October 11, 2007, 05:10:16 PM

Bob, of course, please feel free to upload the sketch to both sites. If you would like to make any changes, I will gladly forward you the Visio file, which is what I used to slap it together.
Alexei