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Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth

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spam Offline scrappy

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #180 on: December 22, 2012, 03:22:45 AM
for you Gareth
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england Offline Dunc

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #181 on: December 22, 2012, 07:14:33 AM
That's the first time I've seen a Swisstool with a serrated sheepsfoot , I wonder if it has a new model number or if its just an update to the standard model.


au Offline MultiMat

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #182 on: December 22, 2012, 02:07:53 PM
That's the first time I've seen a Swisstool with a serrated sheepsfoot , I wonder if it has a new model number or if its just an update to the standard model.

A bit like what Leatherman did with their serrated blades , starting with the ST200  :think: :think:. Too many broken blade tips maybe  :think: :think:

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scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #183 on: December 23, 2012, 10:46:46 AM
Cheers Scrappy. :cheers:
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us Offline carl

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #184 on: December 24, 2012, 12:14:37 AM
At GPKnives is a photo of the latest Swisstool X with no stamp on the plier head, the shield above "Victorinox" on BOTH sides of the tool, and no red paint.

http://www.gpknives.com/victorinoxswisstoolx.html

Note the file teeth go right up to the tip - is this the newer coarser file?


us Offline carl

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #185 on: January 04, 2013, 11:06:01 AM
It appears there may be a possibility the Swisstool is going back to the slimmer plier head.

http://www.pensandleather...ctorinox-swisstool-x.aspx

Here is a link to a Swisstool X with:

1)  New handles stamped with small shield ABOVE the word "Victorinox" rather than in front of the word "Victorinox".

2)  Older slimmer profile plier head - slimmer with less metal around the center pivot.  However, it does not have a shield stamped on it nor the word "Victorinox" stamped on it like previous older slimmer versions. 

You will need to select the top right picture to see this (There are about 7 pictures of the Swisstool so pick the one on the top row , right end.).

I have not seen this combo before. 


au Offline T.J. Hooker

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #186 on: January 16, 2013, 05:28:49 AM
Any idea why my Swiss Tool has no Victorinox logo on the pliers? The Vic logo is on the ruler side with 'Victorinox' but not logo on the pliers?


us Offline carl

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #187 on: January 18, 2013, 05:25:33 AM
The shield emblem is omitted on the latest plier heads - so you have the latest version - this is a good version because you have the more aggressive file.

You probably don't have the red paint on the handles either - another good thing IMHO since there is no paint to scratch.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 05:32:51 AM by carl »


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #188 on: January 19, 2013, 04:52:12 PM
Are we certain there is a plier version with the shield missing entirely? ??? Because here is the latest SwissTool I've got, fresh from Amazon with the sheepsfoot-style serrated knife. (thanks again Terry!!) One side of the pliers has a shield cast into it, while the other side is completely blank.









No red paint on either side of the tool of course.
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spam Offline scrappy

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #189 on: January 19, 2013, 06:00:41 PM
There has been some discussion on this forum that the recent swisstools have no shield on the plier. I own a tool that is a year old and sure enough, no shield on the plier. I just bought a new tool and it has the shield. So, I contacted victorinox and asked them about it. They replied that the Swisstool should have a shield on the plier.

So I wonder, is it possible some models don't have the shield because the plier was built from two halves without the shield when it should have been built with one half plier that has the shield?


england Offline Dunc

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #190 on: January 19, 2013, 06:46:11 PM
My Spirit has no shield on the plier head


us Offline carl

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #191 on: January 19, 2013, 06:50:58 PM
Here is a link to a new Swisstool with no emblem on the plier head but more importantly, a SKINNIER plier head with the weaker left-hand pivot pin design as shown by the jaw crease on the right when the tool is in vertical position with plier head UP.

Now will someone please explain why Victorinox is going backwards in their design?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-Army-SwissTool-X-Multitool-BOXED-53936-with-Nylon-Pouch-/350687879821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a6a0628d
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 06:54:37 PM by carl »


ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #192 on: January 19, 2013, 07:13:45 PM
The plier head is confusing.  I understood the change in pivot based on forces and it made sense.  Why would they revert that?  Maybe they found a huge stockpile of the old kind they misplaced? lol
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spam Offline scrappy

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #193 on: January 19, 2013, 07:21:26 PM
I don't think they reverted back. That is pic from a retailer. I don't think there are any tools shipping like that.

I Bought multiple swisstools this year and none of them are reverted back to the old design

I have a couple spirits without the shield. Beats me what they are doing at vic with the pliers???


us Offline carl

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #194 on: January 20, 2013, 12:09:41 AM
That ebay dealer picture looks genuine because the handles definitely look like the latest version:

1)  Smaller font "Victorinox" stamp
2)  Shield emblem directly above the "Victorinox" rather than in front
3)  No red paint.


spam Offline scrappy

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #195 on: January 20, 2013, 04:56:34 AM
That ebay dealer picture looks genuine because the handles definitely look like the latest version:

1)  Smaller font "Victorinox" stamp
2)  Shield emblem directly above the "Victorinox" rather than in front
3)  No red paint.
Carl, your right. It is not a fake. I am sure the picture is genuine as you point out. But it is not a picture of the current model. It is a stock picture that distributors and dealers can use. The actual item may vary from the stock picture.
Here are the reasons I know this.

1) I was a dealer selling victorinox tools many years ago through their largest distributor in the USA. That picture looks just like the stock pictures we used when I was a dealer.
2) I no longer sell or have access to victorinox multitools but I like them and that is why I have purchased 5 swisstools within the last year from retailers. They all have the wider plier.
3) I spoke with a dealer on eBay who I have used in the past. He says the current model from vic has the wider plier.
4) looking at the picture in your link, the seller has two pictures for the same listing. Note the handles are different in the two pictures so the pictures must be of two different tools. Same model perhaps, but different variations. My guess is both are stock pictures and neither are pictures taken by the retailer.


I am not certain what to think about the plier shield... I emailed victorinox and they told me the current model has the shield. I didnt ask about the spirit though.


us Offline carl

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #196 on: January 20, 2013, 07:30:37 AM
Scrappy - thank you for your input.  I always appreciate info from a dealer or ex-dealer who has that perspective which most of us do not.

And you are right about the second picture with all the tools showing are of a different individual tool.

I agree with you that dealers do indeed use various images taken from the Victorinox website and other sources, not the actual picture of the actual sale item. 

However, those "stock" images always show either:
1)  The side that has the red painted handle or...
2)  The other side that doesn't have red paint but does have "Victorinox" stamped with a large shield emblem IN FRONT of and in-line with "Victorinox".  See link below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTORINOX-SWISSTOOL-RS-SWISS-ARMY-KNIFE-MULTI-TOOL-W-NYLON-POUCH-53935-120-/271138356616?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item3f211afd88

There have been no exceptions to this as far as I know - at least until now.

Recently, however, we know Victorinox changed their handle markings by:
1)  Deleting the red paint
2)  Making both the "Victorinox" stamp (letter font) smaller and shield emblem smaller
3)  Now the smaller shield is stamped ABOVE the smaller "Victorinox" rather than in front of "Victorinox" as before.

These new changes do indeed show up on the latest photo on ebay (see link below) and other sites - thus implying these photos are different from the previous photos and are of the newest version of the tool. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-Army-SwissTool-X-Multitool-BOXED-53936-with-Nylon-Pouch-/350687879821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a6a0628d

It seems implausible to assume the recent ebay picture (see link above) to be that of the older tool with the skinnier plier head - an older skinnier plier head (circa 1997-1999) matched up with the NEWEST stamped handle markings from 2013?  This doesn't make sense to me - unless someone photoshopped an older skinnier plier head to a new set of handles.  Not only that but, the older skinnier plier heads all had markings of some sort - either "Victorinox" or the shield emblem, both of which are missing in the recent ebay photo.  See link below:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=swisstool+plier+heads+the+truth&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&rlz=1T4GZAB_enUS476US476&biw=1523&bih=730&tbm=isch&tbnid=EqvH4Jde07qQrM:&imgrefurl=http://wiki.multitool.org/tiki-index.php%3Fpage%3DSwissTool%2BPlier%2BHeads&docid=FRugzOpYLkdwyM&imgurl=http://wiki.multitool.org/show_image.php%253Fid%253D524&w=799&h=242&ei=OpX7UIa4OMqDjALaxoCgBA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=686&vpy=156&dur=1654&hovh=123&hovw=408&tx=241&ty=100&sig=116262253658119525005&page=1&tbnh=86&tbnw=257&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:96

I also suspect most dealers may not be aware of the minute changes that come along occasionally - either because they are generally not made aware of simple minor cosmetic changes by the company or because they themselves (the dealers) still have older stock (i.e. larger plier head) without the changes and so have nothing newer to compare with. 

I suspect the dealer you spoke with still has the previous version - with previous larger plier head and handles with newest markings.  See link below:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-Army-Knife-SWISSTOOL-CS-Plus-Multi-Tool-Tools-Leather-53946-/121020538081?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item1c2d62dce1


I have had the experience of being a customer who had to inform a dealer of certain details regarding a particular product which, although they were selling the product, were not aware of some detail - probably a nitpicky detail at that :)

If a skinnier plier head is indeed coming down the pipeline, they may not hit all dealers around the world for a year or more.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 07:59:02 AM by carl »


england Offline Dunc

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #197 on: January 20, 2013, 08:24:33 AM
I can't help much with the Swisstools as I havn't bought one in a while but here is a Vic photo of the three changes they done to the Spirit , old intermediate and new. The versions without the shield on the pliers and the Vic shield infront of the victorinox word on the handle ( like mine ) is the intermediate version. Maybe they are doing something similar with the Swisstool.

 
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 08:26:27 AM by Dunc »


spam Offline scrappy

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #198 on: January 20, 2013, 10:08:19 AM
Thanks Dunc. That is interesting to see. My spirits look like 1 and 3.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing something similar with the Swisstool. I have one with no shield.

Carl,  I will be suprised if they switch back to the old plier that is weaker, but time will tell. And as you mentioned earlier it does open wider, that could be their motive.
I am sure someone here will spot if it did happen and we will here about it sooner than later.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #199 on: January 20, 2013, 04:20:30 PM
It might be just a matter of using up some old stock/leftover parts. :think: We've seen that with Leatherman and Gerber and SOG too, where tools will be a mix of some new-style components and some old-style components, until all the old ones are used up. Still and all though, that plier head was changed back in 2005, surely all the old ones are gone by now?? ???



Scrappy, I like your theory about the heads with no shields. :salute: I'll bet it is simply a matter of the assembly person grabbing two non-shielded halves and riveting them together. But if that's the case, shouldn't we be seeing some tools with a shield on both sides too? :think: 
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us Offline carl

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #200 on: January 23, 2013, 09:42:26 PM
Here is the official Victorinox Customer Service answer on this topic of plier change:

Thank you for contacting Victorinox Swiss Army.
Yes That’s the latest design
Please contact us if you need further assistance.
Sincerely,
Victorinox Swiss Army Customer Service

=========== previous message(s) ===========
On 2013/01/19 01:32:16 wrote:
Swisstool - the latest pictures show the plier head slimmer and skinnier than before. Is this the latest design? Why the change?
thank you very much.
 


spam Offline scrappy

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #201 on: January 23, 2013, 10:06:53 PM
odd?? Here is the message they sent me, which is different than what they told you.  They claim the plier should have a shield and or the word victorinox.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: Victorinox Swiss Army Customer Service Inquiry
Date: Wed Jan 09 05:44:00 MST 2013
From: Victorinox Consumer Support <ap3373sdvf0x.vef6uamodo5k@cs.swissarmy.com>
To: terry.labrum@yahoo.com

Dear Terry,

 
Thank you for contacting Victorinox Swiss Army.


this is what I have found out for you,
Cross and Shield and or Victorinox should appear on pliers heads


Please contact us if you need further assistance.
 

Sincerely,

 
Victorinox Swiss Army Customer Service



us Offline carl

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #202 on: January 24, 2013, 12:56:24 AM
I asked only about a SKINNIER plier head and if they are adopting it - I did not ask about identifying stamps or marks on plier head. 

In any case, if any of us want the bigger stronger plier head, I suppose now is the time to buy the old stock while it lasts.


spam Offline scrappy

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #203 on: January 24, 2013, 03:10:40 AM
I don't mean to argue. I just don't understand the change.
I mention the stamps because the photos I have seen with the skinnier plier on the new handles have no shield. But the customer service rep told me that the tools do have shields. So it seems to me there are some inconsistancies with their photos. I can see them going back to the skinnier head possibly but not switching back to how the plier was assembled to have maximum strength in a clockwise motion. It just doesn't make sense.

I have worked with their customer service before, and they have led me astray. Not willfully, they just weren't aware of the minute differences in their tools. Recently that happened when I asked about the new serrated sheepsfoot blade. I recieved a response that all swisstools (not spirits) have a pointy blade. Which is accurate, just not what I was asking about.


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #204 on: January 24, 2013, 06:27:31 PM
I have to admit that I don't even own a Swisstool but I was wondering if this one is showing the new style we are looking at?  I'm not very up on these but that doesn't look like the 2005 pliers to me.

I finally got a ST ... my Leathermans - beware :)

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Just bought by tep78 and doesn't have the old red logo.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 06:29:02 PM by Gareth »
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gb Offline tosh

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #205 on: January 24, 2013, 06:34:20 PM
Can I jump into this debate too.

The postman just delivered my Vic Swisstool CS - Bargain from amazon warehouse deal.

Anyway it's turned up today and well it doesn't look right. The red logo has gone, the pliers don't show the Cross emblem anywhere. Yes, it's stamped above the vic' name on the handle but not the plier head. Also, mine has slight play in the plier head, straight out of the box. I've totally scrutinized it cannot find any trace of previous use - the box was slightly crumpled, so I'm guessing that's the reason for the BIG reduction. Surprised this got past Vic's QC.

Not impressed at all really - I think I may well be returning it as it was purhased with a xmas gift card I received.

However as it was cheap, didn't I read somewhere on here about striking the plier with a centre punch to remove this problem.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 08:25:44 PM by tosh »
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spam Offline scrappy

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #206 on: January 24, 2013, 07:08:45 PM
Gareth, that is even weirder than the other tools I have seen. It has an old plier and old handle but no red paint...


spam Offline scrappy

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #207 on: January 24, 2013, 07:12:25 PM
Okay. I think I see. That is a very old model. because it does not have the cork screw hole. It gas a small hole instead. It is on the metal backstop to the pliers. Does that make sense?


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #208 on: January 25, 2013, 12:02:45 AM
Scrappy, you definitely know more about these than I do() but I do see what you mean.  So do we think they are releasing older MT's but without the red logo? ???
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 12:04:49 AM by Gareth »
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us Offline carl

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Re: Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth
Reply #209 on: January 25, 2013, 01:33:25 AM
Scrappy - you are right about the latest photos of the skinnier plier - they do not have shield stamps on them.  Someone previously mentioned that a recently purchased wider plier version was also missing the shield stamp on the wider plier.  Some here assumed Vic made a change making both tools (full sized and Spirit) without shield stamps.  Time will tell.

Gareth - the photo is old - You can barely make out the shield stamp on the handles in FRONT of the "Victorinox" stamp.  The owner probably rubbed off the red paint as some owners are known for doing.  Some owners here have done so to theirs.

Tosh - most full size Swisstools do have a small amount of play in the plier pivot - all the ones I've looked at have play - my own and also in various stores.  Not a bad thing - in that the mechanism has smoothness to it, unlike other brands who don't have play but the mechanism might be a bit tight and rough.  But like you, I would probably prefer less play and more tightness.   


 

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