I DID IT!!!!!!!

[J-sews]

Bead blast finishes are tempting to manufacturers, because it is an automated process, and therefore cheaper than hand buffing or polishing.

However, the bead blast finish is more likely to develop rust spots than brushing or polishing. I don't understand it completely, but metalurgists tell me it has something to do with "passivation." The better the polish, the less likely a stainless steel is likely to begin rusting. (Think Victorinox here.)

I'm told that some bead blasted stainless can begin rusting almost as easily as regular carbon steel. (Think Gerber tools here.)

My guess would be Leatherman found this out on the SideClip, and so switched the finish to something more corrosion-resistant. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I don;t know what passivation is but it seems to me that a "rough" finish like bead blast would hold more microscopic particles and moisture better, which would definately increase rust development.

Or something.

Def

[J-sews]

I don;t know what passivation is but it seems to me that a "rough" finish like bead blast would hold more microscopic particles and moisture better, which would definately increase rust development.

Or something.

Def

I agree, but the metalurgist just shakes his head and starts rambling on about how polishing "activates the chromium molecules and aligns them on the material surface.....etc, etc."
The whole explanation takes awhile, and after about one minute, my eyes glaze over and I lose track of what is being said.

I'll drink about four cups of coffee tomorrow morning and then ask him again. Maybe I'll stay awake this time. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Better still, e-mail him and ask him, then copy and paste the answer here! 

Def

[joebw]

One problem that I've noted with bead blasting is a pick-up of iron on the beads when blasting steel.  Use of the beads subsequently on stainless will deposit free iron on the surface.  This will then rust.

There is also the potential that the stress created by the beads impact (over 80,000 psi) will transform some of the surface to a  metallurgical phase more subject to rusting.

Bob, not all of us who are metallurgists spout voodo.  If anyone wants a brief explanation of passivity, I'll be happy to give it a go.  Let me know.

Best - Joe

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm game....

Def

[joebw]

OK Def - here goes.

Let's start with good old carbon steel (not stainless steel).  When steel is exposed to an electrolyte such as water, the iron reacts with the electrolyte to form ferric or ferrous oxide: RUST.  If the rust were to form in a very uniform and non-porous film, rusting would stop as the underlying steel would be protected.  In short, this would mean that the steel had gone from "active" (Ready to react) to a "passive" or protected state.  Some thirty years ago, there were steels developed for architectural use where the need for painting was suppossedlly eliminated.  These were called "Cor-Ten" steels if my memory serves me.  They were less than a rousing market success.  The bluing used to protect the surface of steel firearms is a form of rust.

Stainless steel can also oxidize or rust.  However, if the manufacturer utilized some properties of one of the alloying element, chromium, found in the stainless steel, rusting can be minimized to the point that good washing after use followed by proper drying will protect the surface against rust.  If a stainless part is machined, its surface is in the active condition.  If that surface is allowed to sit in the air, the combination of the oxygen in the humidity (water) and the chromium in the stainless will result in the formation of chromium oxidess.  These form a much denser oxide than the ferric or ferrous oxides  mentioned above.  In fact, once the chrome oxide layer becomes about three molecules thick, the corrosion process stops and the stainless is passive.  In some cases, the valve industry in which I've spent almost forty years receives requirements that the stainless be passivated after machining.  This is done by immersing the parts in a solution of warm nitric acid (source of oxygen) to form a thicker chrome oxide layer.  Unfortunately, chromium oxides have one major enemy that will rupture this film and that is found in any number of chloride compound from salt water to sweat.  Once the film ruptures, rust will occur onless the chlorides are rinsed away and the presence of fresh water allows repassivation in the ruptured areas.

I think one of the reasons why bead blasted surfaces may rust easier than polished is that the bead blasting creates little pockets which are more difficult to properly flush when exposed to chlorides.

Def - hope I didn't make your eyes glaze over - Joe

[Grant Lamontagne]

Actually I found it quite an interesting read.  I hadn't realied that blueing was a form of rust...

Of course it makes sense when you think about it.  I actually had always thought that the term "protective coating of rust" was just a joke in reference to crappy cars!

Def

[damota]

As you know I have used nothing but Gerbers and have never had one rust on me. At the end of the week (or at the end of a particular dirty job) I flush them under a tap to clean them out, dry them and oil them with 3 in 1 or gun oil (WD 40 is not viscous enough IMO). I float the pivot points with oil and then wipe them down with ordinary kitchen tissue. So there is a film of oil covering all the surfaces. When not in use for a while the oil soaked tissue is rapped round the tool and the tool is store outside of its pouch. I also every now and again put some oil on my finger and wipe the inside of the pouch with it. You spend money on these tools and they are worth taking care of them IMO.
Powder blast does give a tool a better finish to grip.

[parnass]

....At the end of the week (or at the end of a particular dirty job) I flush them under a tap to clean them out, dry them and oil them with 3 in 1 or gun oil (WD 40 is not viscous enough IMO).....

You are to be congratulated on taking good care of your tools.   Wish more people would.  A man after my own heart.   

[Grant Lamontagne]

Take care of your tools and they will take care of you.  Definately words to live by, but easier said than done.

Where I live is one of the most corrosive environments on the planet (car makers refuse to test cars here for that reason!) and a tool that is not cleaned constantly will develop rust almost immediately.

I had taken a well known and quality brand name knife on a camping trip some years ago, and despite wiping the blade down after each use and before it was put away (plastic sheath, not leather) it was quite heavily rusted by the time I got home two days later.  I have the same problem with tools left in the car or in my work truck.  The jack in my work truck is rusted into the bracket that holds it, and the truck is an '01.

Even with proper care and maintenance here, a tool has simply got to be resistant to rust or it won't survive unless you keep it in an oil filled tupperware container.

Def

[damota]

Another thing that might be of interest while on the subject, I carry a Spyderco and have a Browning camp knife (like a Hobo in 2 parts though) I use as clean knives (I can use for food) and to oil them I use whatever frying oil is in the kitchen at the time. Do not fancy eating food tainted with 3 - 1.
My first boss told me the most important tool in you kit is an oily rag, now kitchen roll has taken over. 

Dave

[Grant Lamontagne]

Good points Damota!  I usually use a mineral oil found at a local pharmacy for next to nothing for a jug.  It's food safe (it's meant to be ingested!) and it works without gumming up the knife or tool.

Def

[damota]

Has it got a brand name Def?
It might be available over here the stickyness can be a problem but a good squirt under the tap gets rid of it if it does pick fluff and stuff up.

Dave

[Grant Lamontagne]

I always use the store brand because it's cheaper.  I don't really see much difference in quality between them, and they all do the same thing- keep the parts moving.

If you want something a little more "tool" oriented, there is a product called INOX which is distributed by Rich Pfiffer at Central Valley Wholesale which is basically a mineral oil but with a penetrating compound added.  Pretty good stuff to, and not really all that expensive either.

And, as an added bonus, it's also food safe.

Def

[CacherX4]

Good points Damota!  I usually use a mineral oil found at a local pharmacy for next to nothing for a jug.  It's food safe (it's meant to be ingested!) and it works without gumming up the knife or tool.

Def

Great advice, thanks Def

[J-sews]

OK Def - here goes.

Let's start with good old carbon steel (not stainless steel).  When steel is exposed to an electrolyte such as water, the iron reacts with the electrolyte to form ferric or ferrous oxide: RUST.  If the rust were to form in a very uniform and non-porous film, rusting would stop as the underlying steel would be protected.  In short, this would mean that the steel had gone from "active" (Ready to react) to a "passive" or protected state.  Some thirty years ago, there were steels developed for architectural use where the need for painting was suppossedlly eliminated.  These were called "Cor-Ten" steels if my memory serves me.  They were less than a rousing market success.  The bluing used to protect the surface of steel firearms is a form of rust.

Stainless steel can also oxidize or rust.  However, if the manufacturer utilized some properties of one of the alloying element, chromium, found in the stainless steel, rusting can be minimized to the point that good washing after use followed by proper drying will protect the surface against rust.  If a stainless part is machined, its surface is in the active condition.  If that surface is allowed to sit in the air, the combination of the oxygen in the humidity (water) and the chromium in the stainless will result in the formation of chromium oxidess.  These form a much denser oxide than the ferric or ferrous oxides  mentioned above.  In fact, once the chrome oxide layer becomes about three molecules thick, the corrosion process stops and the stainless is passive.  In some cases, the valve industry in which I've spent almost forty years receives requirements that the stainless be passivated after machining.  This is done by immersing the parts in a solution of warm nitric acid (source of oxygen) to form a thicker chrome oxide layer.  Unfortunately, chromium oxides have one major enemy that will rupture this film and that is found in any number of chloride compound from salt water to sweat.  Once the film ruptures, rust will occur onless the chlorides are rinsed away and the presence of fresh water allows repassivation in the ruptured areas.

I think one of the reasons why bead blasted surfaces may rust easier than polished is that the bead blasting creates little pockets which are more difficult to properly flush when exposed to chlorides.

Def - hope I didn't make your eyes glaze over - Joe

Thanks for the detailed explanation Joe!

[prime77]

I won a Sideclip on e-bay tonight, now I can see what all the fuss is about.

[Cheviot]

Congratulations on your new toy Navajero! (Boy, there's just nothing like that extremely short temporary satisfaction you get with the arrival of a new multi tool.) 

Now then, as the newest member of the Official SideClip Owner's Club, we'll need to know a few things:

1) Does your SideClip have a bead blast matte finish, or a brushed shiny finish?
2) What are the four date codes stamped on the inside of the handles?
3) And do you like, or dislike, the way Leatherman ground one side of the plier heads down so they can grip objects flush to a surface?

I have done it also!

My "used" Sideclip arrived from E-Bay this morning
1) Its the bead blast matte finish
2) All four date codes are 0198
3) I assumed that the plier head was ground to allow a bit of clearance, in addition to the spacer washer, between the pliers and the knife?

It's a few years since I handled a Sideclip, plenty of memories coming back do you ever forget your first multitool, the thing that strikes me is that the pliers look a bit anorexic compared to the latter day LM tools.
Although I can't remember the sideclip letting me down all those years ago I'd certainly not use/abuse it the way I have my Supertool 200 and Core etc....

Rob

[LatinoHeat]

I used mine today to take apart some desks at work.  They were these big ol' computer desks with cabinets and all, and my Sideclip made quick work of it.  Like Def said in his Sideclip review, no flat head screw is safe from the Sideclip.  There were a bunch of different sized screws in this thing (which is wierd, since you'd figure many of them would be pretty uniform), and the Sideclip tackled them all.  A few bolts too.  This baby can go. 

[J-sews]

I have done it also!

My "used" Sideclip arrived from E-Bay this morning
1) Its the bead blast matte finish
2) All four date codes are 0198
3) I assumed that the plier head was ground to allow a bit of clearance, in addition to the spacer washer, between the pliers and the knife?

It's a few years since I handled a Sideclip, plenty of memories coming back do you ever forget your first multitool, the thing that strikes me is that the pliers look a bit anorexic compared to the latter day LM tools.
Although I can't remember the sideclip letting me down all those years ago I'd certainly not use/abuse it the way I have my Supertool 200 and Core etc....

Rob

Congrats Cheviot, welcome to the club!