Help buying my first EDC knife

[asupernothing]

I personally do not like the 8cr13mov at all, but this has very little to do with the real quality of the steel. I simply prefer non-Chinese steel (yes its a bias).

That being said the 8cr13mov means that it is
.8% carbon
13% chromium
and some molybdenum + vanadium.

So as a result 9cr18mov is a much better steel, as it has a higher carbon content and more chromium.

Carbon helps with hardness and toughness. Chromium increases corrosion resistance. Molybdenum and Vanadium also boost hardness and edge retention (and price). There are a few other factors which come into play as well, such as carbide formation and levels of retained austenite.

However it is also important to keep in mind that increasing the levels of alloy elements decreases the iron content which is why you don't see 50/50 alloys. There is a lot going on with the different steels but the composition is only a part of the action. The production process can introduce impurities which would not be registered on the steel grading, and add a source of weakness (a possible problem with the early Skeletool pliers). The heat treat and tempering are also a very important part of the process and a poor heat treat can invalidate even a high end steel such as S30V.

There are also several different nomenclatures for steel grade and many of the steels we refer to are really brand names (S30V).

Did I confuse you yet? 
If you want more detail let me know and I will happily expand on this stuff.

[jekostas]

Chromium also decreases toughness and can have a negative impact on edge retention.

[gunga]

If it's okay with everyone, else, I would love more detail...

[asupernothing]

Chromium also decreases toughness and can have a negative impact on edge retention.

But it does increase tensile strength...

For more detail:

A major factor in the hardness of a steel is the carbide content. Chromium readily forms complex carbides, which increase the hardness, though this decreases the levels of free chromium which is what determines the corrosion resistance. Vanadium also forms carbides, which are of a finer grain and of greater hardness, and so vanadium carbides are generally better than chromium carbides.

The heat treat and tempering of the steel determine the carbide content. If you look at heat-treat/tempering guides for any given steel, they give you a graph of the temperature/hardness ratio. When tempering most stainless steels it is not recommended to temper between ~700 to 1100 degrees, as this will result in maximum carbide formation. While maximizing carbide content may sound good, it will reduce the amount of free chromium. As I said earlier free chromium is what determines the corrosion resistance, so it is ideal to keep at least 11.5% free chromium (the general minimum required amount for a stainless steel).

On to the heat treat:
The heat treating of the steel results in a process known as austenitization. This is a change in the crystal structure of the iron and creates a very hard, very brittle steel. Since we do not want a very brittle steel for a knife blade (austenite will shatter like glass if dropped/torqued), it is necessary to transform the austenite into martensite. This is accomplished by tempering. During the temper if the temperature is brought to below freezing it has a significant reduction in the level of retained austenite.

If I was to draw an analogy, I would compare steel to a loaf of bread. The iron is the flour and carbon is the water. With just those two items we can create steel/bread, though it will not necessarily be very useful. If we add some chromium/whole grain, we can increase the effectiveness/nutrition. If we add too much, the steel/bread will not hold together. The yeast is your tempering, without temper/yeast the steel/bread will be hard but brittle.

Make sense? Feel free to ask questions, since I know I probably left out a lot of things.

[THE_LONGBOW]

Based on these recommendations, I've decided to try a Spyderco Persistance.  Just a bit smaller than the Tenacious.   Can anyone point me to a steel resource?  Don't know anything about 8Cr13Mov steel, how does it compare to typical 440A or 420HC?

Love the feel of this knife.  I still love the smooth action of the Buck Vantage I have, just wish it was shorter.  Mine is the 345 model.  Anyone want to trade for a slightly smaller knife? 

 

Anyways, the Persistance is very nice...

Thanks for the recommendations guys.  Keep em coming, I may end up with a few more...

 

Buck also makes a smaller Vantage model# 342 Pro or 340 Select. They both have a 2 5/8" blade 3 3/4" closed. Pro is s30v with G10 handles the Select has 420HC and Nylon-Zytel handles. Just something to think about

[jzmtl]

If you want to know about knife steels: http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

It's a bit old and doesn't have the newer steels, but gives you a general idea of how things work.

[asupernothing]

That is a very good reference, lots of excellent info on that site.

[gunga]

Hey, what do you guys think of the Byrd line of knives?  Very well priced...

[jzmtl]

Great for what they cost, waaaaaaaaaaay better than what you can pick up for the same price in walmart or CT.

[mtool78]

I have two Byrd Crows as EDC, one with normal blade and another one with serrated - great little knives for their price. Model is discontinued but can be still found from Ebay or Amazon.

http://stormeroutdoors.com/byrd/BY09BKPS_1.jpg

[gunga]

You guys are killing me.  I am weak...

 


I picked up a Spyderco Persistence last week.  Love it, great knife.

Then I decided I wanted something lighter, so picked up a Kershaw Chill today.  And after seeing how great and light this is, will likely take the Buck back to Walmart (if they will take it) and pick up a Skyline.  Just too cool, so light, great blade.

I'm also getting a Spyderco Salt and Kershaw Scallion in a trade.

Oh man... I'm in bad shape, this won't be as bad as my light addiction, but not good.  Might have to sell off some saks or something.

 

[asupernothing]

If you like fast, light, beautiful knife take a look at the benchmade 940. Its a featherweight knife with the Axis lock. It has been my EDC blade for a few weeks and I have to say I really like it. Its light enough to carry no matter what I am wearing, and the blade is quite long for such a light knife. (just don't look at the price...)

[Sean]

Mike,  your hooked now, nice choices!  If you want light, the Salt 1 is pretty much
as light as you can get, and with it's slim profile, and decent sized blade there isn't
much I don't think you could find wrong with it. 

[WhichDawg]

all excellent suggestions and tips
that's why many of us do not like serrations, once they get dull they are not as easy to sharpen (compared to plain edge) and many makers/companies don't do em right in the first place (unlike the OHT from Victorinox, they did em great)

speaking of SAKs(swiss army knives), I have personally stopped getting dedicated folders (just a blade) and now carry SAKs instead. way cheaper, so many varieties, so many "other" tools in there, various sizes, great warranty, and they've been around for a long time
 
nothing wrong with dedicated folders(they are pretty), just over time you(me) want more

I also suggest a Sharpmaker if you have little sharpening experience.

Benchmade Griptilian videos can be seen on the tube (like how the axis lock works)