Do Us Both a Favor

[Grant Lamontagne]

This is an amusing little story, but one with a message.

Friday night at the bar I work at, I started to watch a patron who was obviously getting to his limit.  You could easily tell by the air guitar and air drums that got increasingly wild, and his dancing, which was looked like he was being struck by lightning while holding in a really bad pee.  This is sad.  It's understandable when someone in their 20's does something like this- they really don't know any better.  This guy was easily in his mid to late 40's, and should know better, but when alcohol is involved, sometimes better judgment takes it's leave, which is why I am there.  These things happen, so there's a support mechanism.

Well I approach the guy quietly and ask him to come up to the front of the bar (near the doors) where the music isn't as loud so we can have a conversation.  I need to assess whether he's really drunk or just very badly coordinated before doing anything serious with him.  He comes along at first, confused as to who I am and why I want to talk to him.  That's a sign that he's pretty far along in his night, as even though I am not "marked," it's pretty obvious who or what I am.

He finally figures out where we are going and starts to become belligerent, and I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet.  Strike three.  He's obviously has had too much, or he would have reacted better.  Time to move him out. 

I'm not a big guy, but I am bigger than this guy.  The other doorman, who sees me walking this guy out is significantly larger than I am.  Even with many years of cqb training and a mind as sharp as a razor, this guy likely wouldn't have much of a chance of resisting both of us.  So, what does he do?  He starts threatening us and trying to start a fight, and of course neither of us is going to bite.  We continue to move him slowly but firmly towards the door, when he commits what ordinarily in a bar would be suicide, and grabs my wrist and tries to hold me.  I immediately grab his other wrist to keep it from turning into a fist and coming at me at high velocity.  That confuses him again, and he hesitates.  I keep firmly moving him towards the door, then decide that he's had enough empowerment, twist my wrist slightly, breaking his hold and getting a good hold of my own.  We are now face to face, me holding both his wrists, me walking forward and him walking backwards.  In many other bars, including the one I used to work at, the simple act of aggressively grabbing a doorman would have resulted in a trip to the Emergency Room and a lengthy and costly visit to a dentist.  I don't operate that way, and the other doorman is giving me the lead on this, but is right there if things go badly.  I keep him moving towards the door, and he starts talking about how he got the drop on me and he could have "taken a piece" of me.  Finally he is out the door, and stumbles off, swearing and threatening, but on his way home. 

He'll be back, and he'll be welcome when he does, and I doubt he'll remember any of this, but I have to think that at some point in a guy's life he should learn that there is a limit to what you can expect to drink.

So, when visiting a bar, please remember a few important things:

1.  Know your limits.  When you have had too much, make an end of it before someone else has to.  And, do not drive home.  Get a cab or get a friend to drive you.  Since I work at a neighborhood type bar, most folks are within walking distance, so that's a good thing.

2.  Comply with the doorman's directives.  You simply will not win.  Even if you do manage to overpower one or more of them, it'll likely just end up with a trip to jail and criminal charges, and not every doorman is as patient as I am.

3.  If there's anything personal in the exchange, you probably brought it.  Doormen do this all night, every night, and (with some notable exceptions) do not make the safety of the bar and it's patrons any more personal than the average person filling out purchase orders at their place of employment.

I have a great job, and I enjoy it immensely.  Incidents like this one aren't significant to me, as I deal with them all the time.  It's in the patron's (that's you!) best interest to learn from them and keep some of their dignity- especially the middle aged guys who have spent much of their lives trying to be respectable!

I doubt he'll read this, and I also doubt he'll know how much he could have been hurt if he'd been at another bar, or dealt with another doorman.  I see no point in hurting him, even if he had taken it to another level, since he didn't mean any of it and is probably a very nice guy ordinarily, but many doormen are overbuilt and looking for fights.  At the other bar I worked at, there were 25 doormen and the same three or four couldn't finish a night without getting into an altercation.  Bad when you are 20, but significantly worse when you are nearing 50. 

If I can get one of you guys to stand down rather than making an idiot of yourselves then I'll figure it was worth typing all of this.

Def

[parnass]

Glad you weren't hurt, Def.    Do you carry handcuffs while on duty at the bar?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Ordinarily on duty I would, but since this is a quieter, more low key establishment I don't bother.  I wouldn't have used them in that incident anyway- unless I plan to keep the guy around for the Police, I don't bother as it tends to add to the aggression and resistance, as well as creating bad blood, which I'd rather not do.

Def

[jock1]

Sound advice Def that guy is very lucky I can think of at least three places I know where he would have been on crutches if he had of pulled that with the doorstaff or deceased if he tried it with the customers

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

If he'd tried that down my way, the out come would have been more than a little different.

Sad to but most people have no clue what there limits are, then they wake up in casulty with no clue how it all happened

Good on you for showing restraint mate, and not getting your ass kicked by a middle aged jedi

[Grant Lamontagne]

There are a few things I don't tolerate, and rudeness and violence are at the top of the list, especially in a social setting.  I am very capable of putting a serious beating on someone and I am also capable of gaining compliance with a significant amount of pain and an insignificant amount of effort.  I am well versed in pressure point control, come alongs, take downs, joint locks and all the other cute names that training officers give the techniques designed to discourage negative behavior.  I am also lazy, and I have no desire to fight anyone I don't have to.  This wasn't personal, and I felt I was in no significant danger, so why do something I don't have to?  Besides, imagine how he'd suffer if he went to work at the bank or the car dealership or the chiropractic clinic the next day with a broken nose?  It could seriously affect his employment as well as his personal life, and I'd rather not have that on my conscience if it can be avoided.

Especially if he manages the bank I will be at in the next year when I go for a mortgage!   

Def

[CQC-7]

It is good that you can be understanding and not bust up someone for acting like a jerk.  There are a lot of people out there that would have hurt that guy.  It all works out for the better if nobody gets hurt at all.  I dislike people in a position of authority that hurt others because they can.  It is good to see that there are people like you that choose the non-violent route.  Beating on a drunk is not fun. 

When I was in high school I was not as calm as I am now.  At the local hangout my friends and I gathered after school one day.  There was this guy there that all of us knew was a doper.  He was high on somthing and he was talking some serious BS to me.  My friend stepped in and told the guy not to screw with me because he would not break it up if I did anything back.  The guy did not take the hint.  He insulted me quite a bit and I took it.  I tried to just go away from him but he just kept pushing me.  After he called my mother a dirty slut I just could not contain myself.  He caught a beating that is still legendary in my neighborhood.  My father always taught me to stand my ground and fight if I could not take it anymore and I just could not take it.  The first shot knocked him off balance and #2 broke his cheekbone and knocked him to the ground.  I just kept going and when my buddy tried to stop it, I guess that I threw him some 3 feet and went back to work.  It was like beating a punching bag when I figured that I should stop.  I went home later and I really felt bad about it.  However, nobody ever tested my patience ever again.  I dont like beating on a drunk.  They sometimes say things that they cant back up or that they dont mean.             

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I think we've all been in situation's like that and for what it's worth I think you handled it very professionally, I can think of a few cringe worthy moment's in my past where I've done a bit more damage than was strictly neccessary, there are reasons for this but I won't discuss them on an open forum

[Grant Lamontagne]

I can't remember a time when I busted someone for something they said.  Words just aren't important enough to waste the energy on.  I think the slightest thing I ever got physical for was a guy who threw a drink in my face, but I'm pretty certain that was a precursor to something else, as he'd just stolen that drink.  At least that's what I'll keep telling myself.   Lazy ass cop that showed up refused to press charges, and that ended up in a very long mess that went no where.  I refused to deal with her ever again, and when/if she responds to any calls, I request another officer on sight.  Fortunately, she's not in my end of the city so I don't see her often.  She may have been having an off night, but she has no right to refuse me pressing charges- it's not her call, and I was hit in the temple twice but the assailant while trying to hold him for the police.  I had a headache for several days afterwards.  Lucky for her the local Police Commission is all for protecting their officers no matter what.  But, that's a complaint for another time.  Most officers I meet are very good natured and quite capable.

I have hurt some folks in the past, and if it's called for, I'll do it again, but I don't think it's called for terribly often.

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I've only belted people over word's when I've been convinced that they were seconds away from hitting me anyway, I've not to my knowledge started many fight's but I have pre-empted a few, because the way I see it, I'm lightly built I'm not designed to trade blows with people, my only real strength is getting in fast and nasty and being able to think clearly when the sticky brown stuff starts a flying

[Grant Lamontagne]

For most of my career I was under 150 pounds... In fact, when I started in security work I was only about 120 pounds.  Those days are long behind me now though... 

An old instructor of mine (for my Rapid Rotation Baton certification) once said "If they ask for Full Service, give them Full Service" which of course meant that if someone needed to be laid out, don't hesitate to do it.  If they want a broken arm, snap the sucker.  I agree still, but the ways of asking for Full Service have dwindled over the years.  Just like anything else, the more you experience, the more refined your ability to deal with it.

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

For most of my career I was under 150 pounds... In fact, when I started in security work I was only about 120 pounds.  Those days are long behind me now though... 

An old instructor of mine (for my Rapid Rotation Baton certification) once said "If they ask for Full Service, give them Full Service" which of course meant that if someone needed to be laid out, don't hesitate to do it.  If they want a broken arm, snap the sucker.  I agree still, but the ways of asking for Full Service have dwindled over the years.  Just like anything else, the more you experience, the more refined your ability to deal with it.

Def

Plus the older you get the less likely you are to get in to that situation in the first place, unless of course your a security guard

[Grant Lamontagne]

I wish that was true...

Kids put up a bit of a show for their friends, but to them it's funny to be thrown out of a bar.  Middle aged guys are much more sensitive about it and are more inclined to fight because you aren't just throeing them out, you are insinuating that they can't hold their liquor, they can't make their own decisions etc.  It's very emasculating for a middle aged guy to be escorted out of a bar.  Since they aren't thinking straight, they start a fight to re-assert their manliness, not realizing that what they are really doing is creating a scene so that even more people witness their embarrassment.  I try to do things as quickly and quietly as possible, both to save their dignity and to get them out before they can react violently or aggressively, but sometimes it doesn't work.

Bottom line, if you have had anything to drink, shut up and do what the nice officer tells you, whether it's security, police, whatever.  Imagine how boring the show COPS would be if the intoxicated folks on there would simply comply. 

If you think you are being unfairly treated, contact the bar management.  No bar is ever open for business without some type of manager there, so you should be able to discuss the matter at the time.  While waiting for the manager, be polite, and follow the directions of the doormen.  It will help your case.  If you are aggressive or derogatory, your case will be blown straight to hell and you might as well just go home rather than make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Def

[Anthony]

The first thing I though of when I read you had both his arms under control and was walking him out backwards...his foot!  That's probably the first thing I'd do if I was in his situation...what if he tried to knee you in the crotch?  I'd like to know how you'd defend against that in the off chance I might have both arms out of commission by someone

I've only gotten into three fights that I can remember...one with a literally insane kid in middle school who tried to strangle me with a jumprope.  It wasn't like a haha push around fight; he came up behind me in the locker room with a jumprope and was crushing my neck with it.  If I didn't get a hand under the rope before it tightened he probably would have murdered me right there (since no one did anything).  I slammed him up against a locker with a protruding lock mechanism and that must have scared him because it game me a second to get my hands on his neck.  Now I almost killed him...he let out a scream like I've never heard before, and his expression just dropped.  I didn't even know the kid, but he was in "special classes" and must have skipped a few pills that morning. 

The other two fights weren't anything odd; one big Chinese kid who caught a knee to his crotch and a punch in the head, and the other kid I ran like hell away from!

I quickly honed my skills of avoiding weirdos like that!

[Grant Lamontagne]

Turn your body so you are on an angle so he can't hit anything and keep him moving.  If he tries to raise a leg and kick you in the crotch, he falls over backwards before he can make contact.  And, stay close so that if by some chance he manages to make contact (which will impact your thigh at best), he gets your forehead in the nose, breaking it instantly and putting him right on his ass.

And, I never work without a cup!   

On the Use of Force Continuum, a shot to the crotch like that is considered to be in the lethal force range.  That doesn't necessarily mean that you can kill him, as lethal force is usually defined as "any action which has the potential to cause death or grievous bodily harm" which means permanent or intensive damage.  It is legal (of course depending on the circumstances) to maim or kill someone who purposely nails you in the 'nads.

Def

[CQC-7]

Where I grew up if you got a reputation of not taking crap you were respected rather than feared.  If you took it lying down you were a door mat.  It was accepted that if you stepped out of line you eventually got what you deserved.  One of the school bully once wanted to come to my neighborhood to "find me" one day after school because I did not give him the quarter that he had asked me for.   My friends were hanging out at my parents place throwing the football.  My friends asked if I was afraid that this guy was going to come for me.  I said no, if he is going to come here he deserves what he gets.  When they asked what that was I just explained that the area I lived in was my domain and I know exactly where every brick, bat, rock, and pointed stick is from here to town.   Besides, I always had a can of "mailman mace" on my bike.  I have a dark side as almost everyone does whether they care to admit it or not.  I have a strong hatred of pain, loss, and failure to the point where I dont accept any, I simply refuse to lose.  I really hate fights of any degree even verbal arguments are to my dislike because I dont like to raise my voice.  I like to be soft spoken and low profile.  However, in a moment of distress I am mean, cruel, violent, and I absolutely love it.        

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Def can I be a mod on any martial site you ever do please, (to many stories)

[Grant Lamontagne]

Consider it done Micky...



... if I should ever start a site like that!

One of these days I am planning to write a book detailing some of my adventures.  Maybe you can write the forward for me!

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Consider it done Micky...



... if I should ever start a site like that!

One of these days I am planning to write a book detailing some of my adventures.  Maybe you can write the forward for me!

Def

With my English!

Well I have been working on your epitaph for a while, so I guess I can re-word it into a forward