What is this knife?

[Cyclone82]

I got this today and was expecting it to be some rare Victorinox with a military logo like this
http://victorinox.saam007.com/imgs/gallery/043b.jpg
http://victorinox.saam007.com/imgs/gallery/044b.jpg

But when i got it it was not marked Victorinox in anyway.
Blade says switzerland rostfrei and the scissors have 'patent' on them. The box has no maker name. The quality seems really good to be honest, the only negative i can find is that the outside liners against on the inside of the scales are quite thin, otherwise the snap and tightness of the tools is good. The knife is 84mm long.

So what have i got?

[Reinier]

It looks a lot like a Wenger (scissors, can opener...). Maybe a rebranded Wenger Traveler?

[Cyclone82]

Did they ever do that? There doesn't appear to be a name anywhere other than on the paper 'Kurt Breuer'  The knife seems like its old stock. It had lots of oil still on the tools.

I just realised theres an awl too. I forgot to open it out in the photo.

It does look like this hey

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Traveler

[Neil]

WTF 

Looks like a Wenger... really looks like a Wenger... but not marked as such   

[Cyclone82]

It has you scratching your head too LOL. I got no idea really. Will wait for more experts to chime in.

Somewhere i read that no one was allowed to use the military crest logo on knives other than vic and wenger on the soldier knives.

[Neil]

Well Hilden is next door to Solingen in Germany.  If a firm there wanted to sell a "generic" knife surely they would grab one made in Solingen   If they wanted a branded one why not a straight Wenger.  If its a far east copy it looks very accurate.   

[Cyclone82]

When i compare it to the wenger pic it looks pretty much exactly the same apart from the logo. Where the tools are gound and how they are shaped looks the same. You guys may not be able to tell that from my photos though.
The logo is indented into the plastic and looks like its then filled in with silver paint. the tightness and snap of the tools seems to be too got for something from China or India. No wobble in the corkscrew or nothing.

There is no 90deg lock on the bottle opener. I do like the feel of this 84/85mm knife in my hand

[Chako]

If it was a Wenger or Victorinox, it would definitely say so on the blade.

Quite the enigma you have there. 

[Cyclone82]

Could it be one of those Barlow knives? I think they were american but were made in Germany If its not a genuine Wenger then someones done a good job of coping one.


'Echt Schweizer Offiziersmesser' = 'Genuine Swiss army knife'

Isn't that Wengers tagline?

[Neil]

If it was a Wenger or Victorinox, it would definitely say so on the blade.

Quite the enigma you have there. 

Most likely but we have seen Victorinox knives with alternative tang stamps before so who knows   A few years back Wenger were in big financial trouble, if someone offered them cash  to make a generic stamped knife it wouldn't shock me at all if they did it.

I'd like to see a close up shot of the scissors if possible.

[Cyclone82]

Scissors have teeth but i cant even see them looking at the knife, only when zoomed in like this. They are so tiny. Maybe they are just the machining marks and not tiny teeth?

You might be able to see 'patent' on the handle.

[enki_ck]

Open the bottle opener and apply pressure to the tip of it. Does it sink into the handle and lock? That and the jegged scissors with patented on them would make it most surely a wenger.

Sent via Tapatalk, sorry for the spelling.

[Zed]

does look like a wenger  traveller this one doas have a CS not shown in this pic, 

[Sazabi]

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

does look like a wenger  traveller this one doas have a CS not shown in this pic, 

Zed:  The corkscrew is visible on the second picture, though; look between the awl and the lanyard.  It's somewhat hard to make out, but it is there.

As for Le SAK de Mistique, either way, it looks like a good conversation starter between SAK aficionados to make us go WTF... not that that hasn't yet happened.

[Zed]

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

does look like a wenger  traveller this one doas have a CS not shown in this pic, 

Zed:  The corkscrew is visible on the second picture, though; look between the awl and the lanyard.  It's somewhat hard to make out, but it is there.

As for Le SAK de Mistique, either way, it looks like a good conversation starter between SAK aficionados to make us go WTF... not that that hasn't yet happened.

my fault as put scratchy head man in wrong place as i know it has a CS as my pic of one i sold recently 

[Gareth]

Open the bottle opener and apply pressure to the tip of it. Does it sink into the handle and lock? That and the jegged scissors with patented on them would make it most surely a wenger.

Sent via Tapatalk, sorry for the spelling.

that's an excellent question.  I gotta say those scissors look spot on though.  Very interesting piece Cyclone.

[frugalscotty]

Could it be one of those Barlow knives? I think they were american but were made in Germany If its not a genuine Wenger then someones done a good job of coping one.


'Echt Schweizer Offiziersmesser' = 'Genuine Swiss army knife'

Isn't that Wengers tagline?

I ran the box label through Google Translate and it came back as "real Swiss army knife". That sounds a little more like something you'd find on a knockoff.

If it's a fake it must be the best looking fake ever.

[enki_ck]

Could it be one of those Barlow knives? I think they were american but were made in Germany If its not a genuine Wenger then someones done a good job of coping one.


'Echt Schweizer Offiziersmesser' = 'Genuine Swiss army knife'

Isn't that Wengers tagline?

I ran the box label through Google Translate and it came back as "real Swiss army knife". That sounds a little more like something you'd find on a knockoff.

If it's a fake it must be the best looking fake ever.

As Cyclone82 said, „Echte Schweizer Offiziersmesser“ is a slogan Wenger uses, while Victorinox uses „Original Schweizer Offiziersmesser“.

Edit: I just read the Warrenty you posted. Kurt Breuer was the local dealer to whom you had to ship the knife to get it fixed.
Here's his phone number you could call and ask him 
http://www.cylex-telefonbuch.de/profil/breuer-kurt-14312511.html 

Then we'd know for sure.

[Cyclone82]

I used the Bing translater and thats what it came up with.

Is there anyone in Germany that can ring?

I will check bottle opener later. Im off to work now.

You would think if it was a copy there wouldnt be a warranty.

[jzmtl]

Scissors have teeth but i cant even see them looking at the knife, only when zoomed in like this. They are so tiny. Maybe they are just the machining marks and not tiny teeth?

You might be able to see 'patent' on the handle.

That sound just like Wenger's scissors.

[enki_ck]

I could translate the warranty for you tomorrow if you'd like.

[Cyclone82]

Open the bottle opener and apply pressure to the tip of it. Does it sink into the handle and lock? That and the jegged scissors with patented on them would make it most surely a wenger.

Sent via Tapatalk, sorry for the spelling.

I tried this but not sure exactly what you mean. The bottle opener/screwdriver opens up and then clicks into place. Its tight and theres no slop. Pressing directly down on the tip does nothing because there is no slop in the pin hole in the tool. It opens and clicks into place like any other Wenger or Vic bottle opener.

[jzmtl]

Are you using your hand? That's not strong enough, try push it against a hard surface, it should sink into the handle a bit and not fold until you release the pressure.

[Cyclone82]

I opened the bottle opener and then pushed the screw driver tip it against the wall, pretty much as hard as i could but i couldnt seem to detect any movment. I think if i press any harder im gonna bust or break something.

[jzmtl]

Hmm, that's strange, with the scissor it should be new enough to have that.

Okay try this, look at the back of the bottle opener, where it rest against the backspring when open, do you see a hook, that should fit into a notch on the backspring? Compare it with the blade and you should see the difference.

[Cyclone82]

Sorry, i just either cant really understand what your trying to point out or i cant see what your saying is there. When the opener is opened it rests against the key ring holder. The tange shape on the opener looks normal to be, just a square shape with the rounded ramp at the back.

[enki_ck]

Hmm, that's strange, with the scissor it should be new enough to have that.

Okay try this, look at the back of the bottle opener, where it rest against the backspring when open, do you see a hook, that should fit into a notch on the backspring? Compare it with the blade and you should see the difference.

This is what he is talking about. This is on an old Wenger Forester, it has the "advantage" of a broken scale to show it better, the newer models scales are wider and cover that better so I can't get a descent shot, but it's there.

  Evolution S17

[Cyclone82]

Well on the top photo i cant really see that little tag on this bottle opener. Its as if that little tag has been chopped right off/was never there...... yep, that little bit is not there for sure.

[Gareth]

Well on the top photo i cant really see that little tag on this bottle opener. Its as if that little tag has been chopped right off/was never there...... yep, that little bit is not there for sure.

This doesn't totally disprove the Wenger theory though.  I've an older Wenger Commander that doesn't have the push-lock on the screwdriver either, so it could just be indicative of your SAKs age.  Looks like you've got the older (slightly shorter) style of can opener as well.

[Spork, Lord of Lime Jello!]

WTF?