US multitool vs China multitool

[Malarauko]

Also the Mustang.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Am I the only one who likes the little orange car better?

Till you drive one..... we test drove a Kia Rio identical to that one (right down to the color!) about six months ago and it was truly awful.  No accelleration, weak brakes, seats that felt like they were cardboard, small steering wheel, and when we got out it smelled like the transmission was on fire.  Maybe it was a bad one, but we couldn't leave the dealership fast enough.

Def

[Mr. Whippy]

Am I the only one who likes the little orange car better?

Till you drive one..... we test drove a Kia Rio identical to that one (right down to the color!) about six months ago and it was truly awful.  No accelleration, weak brakes, seats that felt like they were cardboard, small steering wheel, and when we got out it smelled like the transmission was on fire.  Maybe it was a bad one, but we couldn't leave the dealership fast enough.

Def

Why?  Were you still driving the Rio?





 

[dks]

Off topic: Looking at the various reviews in magazines the Kia Ceed series and their sister product the Hyunday i30 seem to be reasonably good, certainly a lot better than they were 5 years ago. They are Korean, at least originally.

I think the Rio is one of their older models, really dates back to around 2000, so its not their best representative. (dont own a kia, dont really think I will either...)

I remember when people, especially in Europe, used to joke about Skoda cars....

[Mr. Whippy]

In the past few years I've rented a Sportage and a Forte (I think).  Both forgetable.  Both had a fair bit of road noise.  And like Grant, I found when you pressed the accelerator, you got lots of Vroom Vroom sounds, but not much else.

Fit and finish were good.  Gas mileage was good.

[NutSAK]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities.

Huh...  That's odd.  I own two American cars that aren't loud or big.  Maybe they're "sucky" otherwise, whatever that means. 

[Mr. Whippy]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities.

Huh...  That's odd.  I own two American cars that aren't loud or big.  Maybe they're "sucky" otherwise, whatever that means. 

To be fair, when we were in Europe in 2006, I was amazed how much smaller most vehicles on the road were (Italy and Switzerland).  For comparison, a Honda Civic seemed pretty big and spacious.

The other thing was, there were a LOT of small diesel powered vehicles. Well over 1/2 of the cars on the road.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Am I the only one who likes the little orange car better?

Till you drive one..... we test drove a Kia Rio identical to that one (right down to the color!) about six months ago and it was truly awful.  No accelleration, weak brakes, seats that felt like they were cardboard, small steering wheel, and when we got out it smelled like the transmission was on fire.  Maybe it was a bad one, but we couldn't leave the dealership fast enough.

Def

Why?  Were you still driving the Rio?





 

No, but if the transmission was on fire, I didn't want to get blamed for it!

Def

[enki_ck]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities.

Huh...  That's odd.  I own two American cars that aren't loud or big.  Maybe they're "sucky" otherwise, whatever that means. 

To be fair, when we were in Europe in 2006, I was amazed how much smaller most vehicles on the road were (Italy and Switzerland).  For comparison, a Honda Civic seemed pretty big and spacious.

The other thing was, there were a LOT of small diesel powered vehicles. Well over 1/2 of the cars on the road.

Well the gas prices could have a lot to do with it. For example we pay $2/liter of gasoline. That would be $7,6 a gallon. Google tells me the average price in USA is $3,9/gallon.

[NutSAK]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities.

Huh...  That's odd.  I own two American cars that aren't loud or big.  Maybe they're "sucky" otherwise, whatever that means. 

To be fair, when we were in Europe in 2006, I was amazed how much smaller most vehicles on the road were (Italy and Switzerland).  For comparison, a Honda Civic seemed pretty big and spacious.

The other thing was, there were a LOT of small diesel powered vehicles. Well over 1/2 of the cars on the road.

Thanks for being fair.  I know that hundreds of thousands of both of these models are driven in Europe, so they can't be all that big.  Or, I suppose another possibility is that hundreds of thousands of Europeans like to drive big, loud, "sucky" American cars.  One of them is an SUV, is smaller and gets better gas mileage than a Landy and, IMO, isn't any louder or more "sucky".

[Gareth]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities. Except for the Chevvy Z6. Man that thing rocked.

That does seem to be a bit of an unfair generalisation.

[Mr. Whippy]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities.

Huh...  That's odd.  I own two American cars that aren't loud or big.  Maybe they're "sucky" otherwise, whatever that means. 

To be fair, when we were in Europe in 2006, I was amazed how much smaller most vehicles on the road were (Italy and Switzerland).  For comparison, a Honda Civic seemed pretty big and spacious.

The other thing was, there were a LOT of small diesel powered vehicles. Well over 1/2 of the cars on the road.

Thanks for being fair.  I know that hundreds of thousands of both of these models are driven in Europe, so they can't be all that big.  Or, I suppose another possibility is that hundreds of thousands of Europeans like to drive big, loud, "sucky" American cars.  One of them is an SUV, is smaller and gets better gas mileage than a Landy and, IMO, isn't any louder or more "sucky".

We saw numerous Cinquecento's, VW polo's and something called a SEAT.  Plus, there were tons of small diesel SMARTcars. 

We didn't start regularly seeing "common" larger vehicles until we got to Zurich.

[Gareth]

FYI 'SEAT' is a Spanish maker owned by VW, most (all perhaps?) of their cars are re-workings of VW designs but cost a bit less.

[Woz]

Well, while I like American Pickups and SUV, you can not really compare Europe, Asia and the US here.
Here and in most Asian countries gas is much more expensive. So fuel consumption is more important. Also, a manufacturer who wants to sell in the EU has to meet very strict emission laws, a modern but large and thirsty bigblock is way more expensive here, because of Eco-taxes etc. Some US cars are even illegal here, for they do not meet EU laws.

Than, most important, even our cities are smaller. Well, not really the cities, but the streets and parking lots. We have old cities like Paris, Vienna or London where the historic centers date back to times where horeriders and pedestrians were the only traffic in the cities. Cities were buildt around churches and courthouses, we do not have the American concept of wide main streets in the historic centers (well, if there is something like a historic center).
An Austrian "highway" has 2-3 lanes, when I was in the USA I loved the 8 lane highways there. Innercity streets are quite narrow compared to the US. Finding a parkinglot for an US made Truck is like winning the lottery. In Paris, for example, the best sold cars are ultra-small vehicles like a Smart, Citroen C1 or Toyota IQ. They are so small, they will fit on some US pickups. So you can carry your backup car 

Oh, one last reason why comparison is not fair: In Austria, Germany and most other EU countries I know of, you have to have different driving licenses for motorcycles, cars, trucks, etc. I, only having a license to drive cars, am not allowed to ride a motorcycle or any vehicle that is heavier than 3.5 tons incl. passengers and load. So, cars like a Humvee or even the smaller H2 can only be used by people with driving licenses for heavy trucks. A bus that is heavier than 3.5 tons and/or has more than nine seats requires an extra license, so a truck-driver is not allowed to drive a bus. ...

In Asia, space in cities is even more of a problem. That is why they build a large number of tiny cars there.

So, owning a car is not necersarily a matter of taste, but of money, law and area.

Btw: I rented a Kia Ceed on my last vacation, it is really nice and a very fine vehicle. KIA and Hyundai are on the same level as Honda or Volkswagen are. They learned very quickly. The cheap Korean cars sell under the label Chevrolet here, no kidding. Korean manufacturer Daewoo bought the rights on the Chevrolet brand in Europe to sell small, not so well made cheap cars. 

[NutSAK]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities.

Huh...  That's odd.  I own two American cars that aren't loud or big.  Maybe they're "sucky" otherwise, whatever that means. 

To be fair, when we were in Europe in 2006, I was amazed how much smaller most vehicles on the road were (Italy and Switzerland).  For comparison, a Honda Civic seemed pretty big and spacious.

The other thing was, there were a LOT of small diesel powered vehicles. Well over 1/2 of the cars on the road.

Thanks for being fair.  I know that hundreds of thousands of both of these models are driven in Europe, so they can't be all that big.  Or, I suppose another possibility is that hundreds of thousands of Europeans like to drive big, loud, "sucky" American cars.  One of them is an SUV, is smaller and gets better gas mileage than a Landy and, IMO, isn't any louder or more "sucky".

We saw numerous Cinquecento's, VW polo's and something called a SEAT.  Plus, there were tons of small diesel SMARTcars. 

We didn't start regularly seeing "common" larger vehicles until we got to Zurich.

So, your point is that anything larger than a VW Polo is large in they eyes of a European?  I guess Mondeos and Astras are land yachts.  I can think of many American cars that are smaller than a Mondeo.  That is, "American" by my definition.

Oh, and I would like to ask...  How is "American" car defined in this context? (referring mostly, but not limited to, the big, loud "sucky" ones)  Is that a car that is designed and built buy an American car company?  Built in the US?  A car that just has an American company's nameplate? 

[Woz]

Sure, there are quite some really large cars here. Mercedes or BMW make large limousines, a Landrover is huge for European standards, and dont forget about Renault Espace or other vans.

My point is, they are not so common like larger cars seem to be in the US. Maybe it is the media, but when I watch US tv shows or movies, most cars are large pickups, SUV or towncars. A VW Golf seems to be the smallest size of cars driven in the US of A.

I do not think US cars are not good. I LOVE Jeeps and really like the Dodge Caliber. Chrysler 300m and Jeep Cherokee are built in Graz, btw, just 50km from here in small Austria :-)

[NutSAK]

Sure, there are quite some really large cars here. Mercedes or BMW make large limousines, a Landrover is huge for European standards, and dont forget about Renault Espace or other vans.

My point is, they are not so common like larger cars seem to be in the US. Maybe it is the media, but when I watch US tv shows or movies, most cars are large pickups, SUV or towncars. A VW Golf seems to be the smallest size of cars driven in the US of A.

I do not think US cars are not good. I LOVE Jeeps and really like the Dodge Caliber. Chrysler 300m and Jeep Cherokee are built in Graz, btw, just 50km from here in small Austria :-)

Right, so you would agree that saying "American cars are kinda sucky.  Big and Loud".  Is an unfair generalization also?  You shouldn't assume US TV is reality.

Not true about the Golf, BTW.  I see a few Smart cars on my commute every day, and I live in a small town.  The SUV I was referring to owning is the Cherokee--the old one designed by AMC (XJ), not the new Chrysler-softened stuff.  Actually the Chrysler-designed Cherokee (post-Wolfgang Bernhard hack-n-slash) is called the "Liberty" here in the US.

There are many full-size pickups and SUVs in my area, but you must remember how rural my area is.  Towncars are few, mostly driven by the elderly.  I would say "most" cars here are BMW 3-series, Ford Modeo/Fusion size and smaller.  Go to a different area of the country, and you will find a completely different mix.  It's a big country--too big to generalize a lifestyle, IMO.

[jzmtl]

Leave the sucky and loud part out (which I don't agree necessarily, would love to have a camero/corvette/mustang), the big part is pretty true. Driving across the border from Canada to US, I can see the percentage of large vehicles increase by quite a lot, so for Europe where even smaller cars are more common, the difference could be dramatic.

[MeadMaker]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities.

Huh...  That's odd.  I own two American cars that aren't loud or big.  Maybe they're "sucky" otherwise, whatever that means. 

To be fair, when we were in Europe in 2006, I was amazed how much smaller most vehicles on the road were (Italy and Switzerland).  For comparison, a Honda Civic seemed pretty big and spacious.

The other thing was, there were a LOT of small diesel powered vehicles. Well over 1/2 of the cars on the road.

Well the gas prices could have a lot to do with it. For example we pay $2/liter of gasoline. That would be $7,6 a gallon. Google tells me the average price in USA is $3,9/gallon.

You are correct.  Now that fuel is over $4.00 / gallon here smaller cars are selling much faster.

[ducktapehero]

I have nothing against loud and big, I'm just not a fan of the new GM Camaro/psuedoTrans Am

Although here in the US the Camaro isn't really a big car. Me like this though.

[jerseydevil]

Oooohhhh...Tailfins! . There was a '59 Caddy at the end of my block growing up. Love the look of that car.

[ducktapehero]

There was a '59 Caddy at the end of my block growing up. Love the look of that car.

Me too....it says "Here I am, deal with it." You gotta love audacity.

[Gadget Guy]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities.

Huh...  That's odd.  I own two American cars that aren't loud or big.  Maybe they're "sucky" otherwise, whatever that means. 

To be fair, when we were in Europe in 2006, I was amazed how much smaller most vehicles on the road were (Italy and Switzerland).  For comparison, a Honda Civic seemed pretty big and spacious.

The other thing was, there were a LOT of small diesel powered vehicles. Well over 1/2 of the cars on the road.

Thanks for being fair.  I know that hundreds of thousands of both of these models are driven in Europe, so they can't be all that big.  Or, I suppose another possibility is that hundreds of thousands of Europeans like to drive big, loud, "sucky" American cars.  One of them is an SUV, is smaller and gets better gas mileage than a Landy and, IMO, isn't any louder or more "sucky".

We saw numerous Cinquecento's, VW polo's and something called a SEAT.  Plus, there were tons of small diesel SMARTcars. 

We didn't start regularly seeing "common" larger vehicles until we got to Zurich.

So, your point is that anything larger than a VW Polo is large in they eyes of a European?  I guess Mondeos and Astras are land yachts.  I can think of many American cars that are smaller than a Mondeo.  That is, "American" by my definition.

Oh, and I would like to ask...  How is "American" car defined in this context? (referring mostly, but not limited to, the big, loud "sucky" ones)  Is that a car that is designed and built buy an American car company?  Built in the US?  A car that just has an American company's nameplate? 

Stay with 'em Terry!  These Euro's will bash you at any given time for no reason. Don't make sense most of the time anyway.   

[Mr. Whippy]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities.

Huh...  That's odd.  I own two American cars that aren't loud or big.  Maybe they're "sucky" otherwise, whatever that means. 

To be fair, when we were in Europe in 2006, I was amazed how much smaller most vehicles on the road were (Italy and Switzerland).  For comparison, a Honda Civic seemed pretty big and spacious.

The other thing was, there were a LOT of small diesel powered vehicles. Well over 1/2 of the cars on the road.

Thanks for being fair.  I know that hundreds of thousands of both of these models are driven in Europe, so they can't be all that big.  Or, I suppose another possibility is that hundreds of thousands of Europeans like to drive big, loud, "sucky" American cars.  One of them is an SUV, is smaller and gets better gas mileage than a Landy and, IMO, isn't any louder or more "sucky".

We saw numerous Cinquecento's, VW polo's and something called a SEAT.  Plus, there were tons of small diesel SMARTcars. 

We didn't start regularly seeing "common" larger vehicles until we got to Zurich.

So, your point is that anything larger than a VW Polo is large in they eyes of a European?  I guess Mondeos and Astras are land yachts.  I can think of many American cars that are smaller than a Mondeo.  That is, "American" by my definition.

Oh, and I would like to ask...  How is "American" car defined in this context? (referring mostly, but not limited to, the big, loud "sucky" ones)  Is that a car that is designed and built buy an American car company?  Built in the US?  A car that just has an American company's nameplate? 

I wanted to take some time before replying again.

First off, I'm completely ignoring the "clunky and noisy" comments.  I'm focusing on size (which I did before as well, just didn't spell it out).

We tend to buy what will work for us. 

When we had kids at home, we had at different times, Chevy Suburban, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Subaru Outback, and various crewcab pickups.

However, for commuting to work, I used a VW GTI, Toyota Tercel, Subaru Outback (same one), and currently a Cabrio when I don't take the motorcycle.

Why?  It's a combination of space and MPG.  Smaller means more parking options.  If I can use a vehicle that gets over 30 mpg in my type of driving, that's a big cost savings.

The big vehicles hauled kids, dogs, horses, tack, feed, hay (!), and pulled various trailers (not the Subaru however).

Currently we have a 1 ton crewcab dually for towing, a VW cabrio and an old Honda Accord.  Our daughter has our Honda Element at school.  Again, I don't have a Euro bias, Japanese bias or American bias.  I buy what does what we want most efficiently. 

When we bought the Honda Element, we were originally going to get a Chrysler Pacifica (which we rented for a vacation trip and LOVED) but couldn't find any AWD versions of it and went to the Element.

My point was simply, in Europe, the predominance of vehicles are much smaller than the standard vehicle that Americans drive (many models we don't even have here).  Additionally, many more vehicles have tiny, efficient diesel engines. 

Would love to see some of those here, but the diesels have trouble passing EPA unless they have urea injection systems (a costly upgrade).

I wasn't bashing "American" branded cars/trucks (We're a Chevy family, btw )

[MeadMaker]

Nice picture ductapehero.   I was a small child when fins went out of style, but I remember them well.  Cars, American or otherwise, just don't have the character that they used to.

In your last post you typed "Although here in the US..."  That confused me because the little flag under your picture represents Antarctica.  But then I remembered your name and realized that, like most super heroes, you have a secret identity

For the record, my Pontiac gets 30 mpg, is smallish and quiet.  As far as I know they never offered a vacuum option for sucking.

[Mr. Whippy]

Nice picture ductapehero.   I was a small child when fins went out of style, but I remember them well.  Cars, American or otherwise, just don't have the character that they used to.

For the record, my Pontiac gets 30 mpg, is smallish and quiet.  As far as I know they never offered a vacuum option for sucking.

Tap into one of the intake air lines. You'll find vacuum.  Probably around 18-21 inches of water 

[NutSAK]

I wasn't bashing "American" branded cars/trucks (We're a Chevy family, btw )

Oh hell, don't get me arguing on a whole other subject.  When the term "sucky" was used, Chevy was all I could think about...

  

BTW, I knew what you were getting at.  It was actually the noisy and "sucky" comments that I thought were inappropriate.

[Pacu]

better than a benz anyday!

[Carlos]

About this talk of cars... I think it was an english comedian that went to the USA and was asked about what he think about it. He replied something like this: "I now see that your country [USA] is more developed than mine -- your japanese cars are bigger and better than our japanese cars". 

This was back in the 90's, I guess. Today this joke would be done with german cars, for sure 

[Jors]

I am also not very eager to buy knives that are made in China, but I have seen Chinese made knives that have a much better edge holding ability than a Leatherman multitool blade's ability.

I will stay with Leatherman rather than go for a cheaper Chinese one, period.

But, there are other fields where the Chinese people are very good.
I bought a Chinese lathe chuck about 20 years ago and it is still true as it was on the day I bought it.
I have a German "Quantum"screw cutting lathe. I recently fitted a Chines quick change tool post that was six times cheaper than the nearest British / American opposition, and the accuracy and quality and hardness are just the same as the opposition. I had to modify (take away) some to fit the bigger size toolpost on a smaller size lathe and believe me the hardness is perfect.

I do not have a problem to buy Chinese products, but..................
When it comes to knives or multitools, I will stay with the brands that have proofed themselves over and over.
It is not negotiatable.