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Leatherman SHOT 2018 3366

No Life Club Posts: 3,105 American Clandestine Materials Executive (ACME)
Leatherman SHOT 2018
« on: January 21, 2017, 02:20:38 PM »
No, I didn't park my Delorian in the wrong spot.

I think we've all been underwhelmed with the last few years' new offerings. This year was particularly sad. So, it's easy to say "meh, Leatherman sucks now" lets instead suggest solutions.

Nothing radical. Nothing involving asking Mr Evil how many dumptrucks full of cash he'd want. Realistic suggestions. I know Leatherman has people who are on this board, either officially reading it or at least employees who come here on their own. This is supposed to be the premier, worldwide gathering place for multitool users and fans. So let's leverage that.

What I want: Tell me some sane, simple, rational ideas for Leatherman. I'll give it a week, then set up a poll.

What I think they could do:

1- Expand the knives,and add more tools. Yes, Victorinox has been doing it for over a hundred years, but what do they have for real competition? They married Wenger out of pity, and Swiza... No, that isn't competition from what I've seen. So this is a market with chance, particularly with a USA made (or at least assembled) product. At the very least, scissors (steal them from the Surge), a bit holder and the Surge's blade holder.

2- New Minitool, using the Rebar plier heads. No blade, no drivers, just the pliers and maybe a line cutter or wire stripper notch in the handle extensions. Beef up the handles and extensions so you can put some serious pressure them or at least feel like you can. Minitool 2 - REAL pliers that are real small.

3- Skeletool with scissors. We all want this. It's the school and airplane friendly Skele. Skeletool TS for branding. (TSA in this case meaning the TSA Sucks.)

4- A slimmer, bladeless version of the Rebar, and no, not that slack jawed mutant with the scissors. Take off the blade layer, so there is a saw and the file and the drivers. Sure, it competes with the Signal. Yeah, I can say that with a straight face. Brand it the Pocket Survival Tool IV.

4a. And even slimmer Rebar. Pliers, drivers, no blades, no saw, no file. They like silly names? Pay homage to the parent tool, and call it the Speedbar.

5. I'm calling this one the Mentor. Not a Sidekick, not a Wingman. And not a Reverend. This one is a teacher. It's a kit, with handles and a plier head, and swapable tools and spacers. It is to introduce people to the idea of modding. And publish, right there on the webpage and right in the packaging for the Mentor the specs for the tang. Put a bounty out there for a yearly completion for new tools that fit into the Mentor

6. This one is really far fetched. Take the Tread. Add an adjustable link so it actually fits your wrist, that would also hold a watch! I have my criticisms of the Tread, but Tim has one for a watchband. I think it could sell. Watch me fix this would work for this.

So? Who has an idea that doesn't require a lot of new design work and retooling that Leatherman could use?

(psst... and if Leatherman does use any of these ideas, a donation to MTO's server fund might be a nice show of gratitude.)

"Even if it is only the handful of people I meet on the street, or in my home, I can still protect them with this one sword" Kenshin Himura

Patriotism is a lively sense of collective responsibility, Nationalism is a silly cock crowing on it's own dunghill.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If you're not ready, it's "a mother". If you are, it's "mom".
OCD Squad Leader Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,562
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 06:44:22 PM »
1- Expand the knives,and add more tools. Yes, Victorinox has been doing it for over a hundred years, but what do they have for real competition? They married Wenger out of pity, and Swiza... No, that isn't competition from what I've seen. So this is a market with chance, particularly with a USA made (or at least assembled) product. At the very least, scissors (steal them from the Surge), a bit holder and the Surge's blade holder.
Not much money in this business, that is why Victorinox moved its focus to cloth and perfume.
Victorinox makes the most money SAK wise, with the Classic and all those different scales.
The only current competition in this market might be Böker and they have not expanded on the City Tool line since its introduction (and to my knowledge there is also nothing announced).
Swiza has announced a wood saw but never delivered. Instead they offer now a children friendly blade and a wide variety of scale designs.

2- New Minitool, using the Rebar plier heads. No blade, no drivers, just the pliers and maybe a line cutter or wire stripper notch in the handle extensions. Beef up the handles and extensions so you can put some serious pressure them or at least feel like you can. Minitool 2 - REAL pliers that are real small.
Who would buy a small, but not really all that small tool that has so few tools to offer. I personally doubt there is much of a market for this.

3- Skeletool with scissors. We all want this. It's the school and airplane friendly Skele. Skeletool TS for branding. (TSA in this case meaning the TSA Sucks.)
That might sell

4- A slimmer, bladeless version of the Rebar, and no, not that slack jawed mutant with the scissors. Take off the blade layer, so there is a saw and the file and the drivers. Sure, it competes with the Signal. Yeah, I can say that with a straight face. Brand it the Pocket Survival Tool IV.
You said it yourself... its pretty much the same as the Signal, just with an out-dated design. Besides the Signal rocks :D

5. I'm calling this one the Mentor. Not a Sidekick, not a Wingman. And not a Reverend. This one is a teacher. It's a kit, with handles and a plier head, and swapable tools and spacers. It is to introduce people to the idea of modding. And publish, right there on the webpage and right in the packaging for the Mentor the specs for the tang. Put a bounty out there for a yearly completion for new tools that fit into the Mentor
This is a warranty and copyright nightmare...


I know that sounds a bit negative, but truthfully I think a company needs to focus on being profitable and sadly the best profit is not in more and different tools but in limited editions and colors.

Emergency Kit: Ovo Sport, chocolate, cheese, crispbread and a coin
No Life Club Posts: 1,042 Find me if you can...
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2017, 07:02:10 PM »
Uhm... don't think you can bring scissors on airplaine...
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,837 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2017, 07:49:31 PM »
Don't worry about new stuff, just fix the quality issues, fix the ergonomics, and fix the impeded main gripping area on the pliers. There's only one current Leatherman tool I'd buy - and if they put the Rebar plier head on the Wave, that one becomes none!

Quit with the gimmicky crap, and sort the recurring issues out. You don't need to bring out new stuff once a year, you just need to bring out good stuff all year!



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 1,042 Find me if you can...
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2017, 08:49:05 PM »
Don't worry about new stuff, just fix the quality issues, fix the ergonomics, and fix the impeded main gripping area on the pliers. There's only one current Leatherman tool I'd buy - and if they put the Rebar plier head on the Wave, that one becomes none!

Quit with the gimmicky crap, and sort the recurring issues out. You don't need to bring out new stuff once a year, you just need to bring out good stuff all year!

I agree with you. It is rather short-sighted to try bringing new stuffs every year. Given that 10% of their facility is for repairing, widening their product offerings will bite back eventually. 
No Life Club Posts: 2,755
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2017, 12:50:46 AM »
ST300, made with a similar tool selection to Gerber's Pro Scout.   Ditch the saw (since you'll have the EOD model's blade exchanger) and one of the blades for scissors and blade exchanger. 

 
Wave, upgraded  to have the Rebar's pliers and one of the tools ditched for awl.  I'd also like to see the bit drivers ditched for the fixed drivers like the old one did.


Thinned down Rebar to become a revived PST and PST II.

Another Mini Tool, based on a shortened Rebar frame.   I love the tiny blade, but I'd like to see a flat screwdriver on the end of the file that can fit No. 2 Phillips, my one and only complaint about the Mini Tool, the best LM in my opinion as it's the only mini multitool that is very much full sized.


Oh, and can we see return of the tiny flat screwdriver?  That seems to be a tool that died out after '04, but is the tool I use most on my PST II.
Sr. Member Posts: 359
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2017, 04:13:07 AM »
Since we are dreaming up a solution for the lack of innovation from leatherman lately. I would totally go for a mini tool II with rebar head, large bit holder opposite small bit holder, box opener opposite a small plain edge, with classic bottle opener and can opener from original version. Think how great that would team up with any SAK. Also like the idea for a premium version of the surge with titanium handles, adjustable slip joint plier, premium blade (154CM, S30V, or why not even S30VN), exchangeable alternate blade (similar to havalon evolve) instead of a serrated blade, incorporated ratchet for 1/4" bits or LM propriatary even if it prevents putting a few too many flathead blades on the tool. Anyway just rattling, but I hope we do see something from them by the blade show this June.

Leatherman: ALX/SLV/TTI, Core, Crunch, Flair, C2/CS4/KF4/PRO/S2/SC2/SX/XE6, Kick, Micra, Mini, MUT, OHT, PS4, PST 1/2, Pulse, Rebar, Sideclip, Signal, Skeletool CX/RX, ST 200/300/EOD, Surge, Tread, Wave

Gerber: Balance, Bear ST, Cable Dawg, Center Drive, Crucial, Diesel, Dime, Flick, Grappler, Groundbreaker, MP 1/400/600/650/700/800, MPT, Radius, Recoil, Steady

SOG: Paratool, Power Assist/Duo/Grab/Lock/Play/Plier, PPP, PT 525/540, Reactor, Switchplier 1/2

Victorinox: Autotool, RT, ST, Spirit, Buku SAKs
No Life Club Posts: 3,105 American Clandestine Materials Executive (ACME)
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2017, 03:47:34 PM »
Well, I guess you guys told me. Never mind.

But I will say that Signal is a piece of crap. I've handled them a few times, the ergos suck.

"Even if it is only the handful of people I meet on the street, or in my home, I can still protect them with this one sword" Kenshin Himura

Patriotism is a lively sense of collective responsibility, Nationalism is a silly cock crowing on it's own dunghill.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If you're not ready, it's "a mother". If you are, it's "mom".
Hero Member Posts: 744
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2017, 04:10:01 PM »
Uhm... don't think you can bring scissors on airplaine...
That's what I thought too. Personally, I'd never buy a "flying friendly" tool, because the TSA can take whatever they want anyway, so why risk it? I don't have any statistics to back up my paranoia though, so maybe those things really do get through security.

May it be as the Pattern has chosen.
OCD Squad Leader Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,562
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 08:03:34 PM »
Well, I guess you guys told me. Never mind.

But I will say that Signal is a piece of crap. I've handled them a few times, the ergos suck.
Therein lies the problem, everybody has an opinion. I find the Signal far more comfortable than other LMs (except for the Charge), might be hand size, might be the way I use it.

If you take away the plastic parts, then it is actually quite brilliant and I certainly think it is the next step from the Wave. I would also not be surprised if the next gen Wave would be based on the Signal.

Emergency Kit: Ovo Sport, chocolate, cheese, crispbread and a coin
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,837 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 09:34:56 PM »
Well, I guess you guys told me. Never mind.

But I will say that Signal is a piece of crap. I've handled them a few times, the ergos suck.

I didn't want you told, I wanted Leatherman told  :D :cheers:



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 1,147
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2017, 05:21:13 AM »
I have to defend the Signal too. I have used it as an EDC for more than three months. I find it is a good tool for MY EDC needs. YES, it has some plastic bits and they are gimmicky, but the tool itself is good. As Etherealicer, I find it very comfortable and it surprised me in the first challenge I did in November. It is not perfect, but it also does not deserve the bad rap it got here. One thing I would like LM to offer us is another choice of blade. As with the Skeletool range that has a PE and a Combo blade. It would be nice to choose between a PE or combo blade. The Damascus one from TTC is not bad either, but not a cheap option.

Cheers,

Pete
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,255 Tactical Desk Jockey
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2017, 07:39:16 AM »
Well, I guess you guys told me. Never mind.

But I will say that Signal is a piece of crap. I've handled them a few times, the ergos suck.
Yup it is a pos, I gave it away.

EDC: Black Talon, Black Cat, Spirit, LD02
Sr. Member Posts: 288
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 10:11:45 AM »
Build a Wave 2018.
Remove that silly eyeglass screwdriver and use the slot for an awl from the rebar series.
For those who cant live without it make a bit that fits the other bits and has those two tiny screwdrivers.
Always annoyed when I see this wasted slot on my Blast which would make an awesome tool otherwise.

To the suggestions about slim tools:
Bring the PST Series back up. With improved ergonomics and the slim profile and the slightly smaller pliers than the Rebar/Wave Series . Maybe the plierhead of the Skelettool/Juices? Would be plenty for the job. And dont forget to add a removable pocket clip.

And a final request:
Fire the dude that introduced all those loose fitting leather sheaths of the never tools. Not talking about the Molle-Sheaths but the ones coming with the regular STs. They are items that find their way right into my garbage tin.
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,113
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 07:35:47 PM »
Wave/Charge mini bit holder.  IMO either offer other pieces that will fit in it or bump it.  Good idea but very limited in actual use.  I agree with Shuya in LM could offer a bit for their standard bit holder offering eyeglass function. 

OHO scissors.  I love serrated blades however larger scissor would really be welcomed.  However adding the Saw to the File slot would also work.  We've seen someone add the saw to the file layer in a Charge recently.  In this configuration the serrated blade with gut hook for those who love that combo can stay.

Loosing the min driver and scissors opens space for a chisel/awl/stout flat driver-pry tool. 

Add Blade Exchanger to the Wave/Charge series.     

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 2,804
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2017, 08:47:49 PM »
Blunt Pliers
Simple isn't it?
Just Blunt Pliers without the stupid interchangeable carbide cutters - I've been trying to think of a pair of real pliers that use carbide inserts? :think:

Blunt pliers and if possible standard fold out box cutter layer.

How taxing would that be.

Imagine it, a multitool where all you need do is discard the dull blade and insert a new one

Such joy  :whistle:

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
OCD Squad Leader Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,562
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2017, 10:06:10 PM »
Blunt Pliers
Simple isn't it?
Just Blunt Pliers without the stupid interchangeable carbide cutters - I've been trying to think of a pair of real pliers that use carbide inserts? :think:

Blunt pliers and if possible standard fold out box cutter layer.

How taxing would that be.

Imagine it, a multitool where all you need do is discard the dull blade and insert a new one

Such joy  :whistle:
Making blunt pliers is really not that hard... why not mod one? Btw, Wave pliers don't have carbide inserts.
Standard box cutters are probably too large but like the Havalon a scalpel holder should work.

Emergency Kit: Ovo Sport, chocolate, cheese, crispbread and a coin
No Life Club Posts: 2,804
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2017, 10:47:22 PM »
Blunt Pliers
Simple isn't it?
Just Blunt Pliers without the stupid interchangeable carbide cutters - I've been trying to think of a pair of real pliers that use carbide inserts? :think:

Blunt pliers and if possible standard fold out box cutter layer.

How taxing would that be.

Imagine it, a multitool where all you need do is discard the dull blade and insert a new one

Such joy  :whistle:
Making blunt pliers is really not that hard... why not mod one? Btw, Wave pliers don't have carbide inserts.
Standard box cutters are probably too large but like the Havalon a scalpel holder should work.

Why don't I mod one?

"Why should I" is my first response, I don't mean that to sound as abrupt as it reads - sorry
Also, I've seen plenty of pictures of needle nose pliers with their ends cut off, yes... It gets rid of the pointy bit, but they are not blunt nose pliers.
Proper blunt pliers have broad flat surfaces at the tip to grab and hold, whereas the mods (usually in what I have seen) have little or no broad flat areas... They just have stumped snouts before the hole in the plier head.

Yes, as a last resort it might work. But the wave retails here in the UK around £100 I can buy a cheap but half decent set of pliers for £10.

I'll be honest I'm sick of bringing this topic up and I'm pretty certain members are sick of reading it.

Which coincidently explains perfectly why I have little or no desire to purchase ANY new MT at present. The design and configuration are banal and stale.  There is nothing to gain over a 2nd hand 20yr old bargain off eBay.

That's the bottom line and that's exactly the point that manufacturers are missing or more than likely turning a blind eye too.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 10:50:21 PM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
No Life Club Posts: 2,612
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2017, 11:56:19 PM »
umm

SHOT show LM booth in 2018  :think:

Perhaps the other half of the skeletool that was left out this year  :rofl:

LM, don't change a thing, we love you just the way you are...going
No Life Club Posts: 2,644
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2017, 12:22:34 AM »
Boy, what a topic!
I started with a Wave in 2004, never carried because I did not need that selection of gadgets at the time, then was afraid I would loose it when career changed so used a Paratool.
Then I snagged a SuperTool 300 at half off and took a 30 day challenge here and found it very handy, but heavy for EDC.
Next, a Rebar, took another challenge and STILL love it.   Found a Orange Wave at Cabelas, on sale, it travels with me but it is not my Rebar.  Skeletool for Christmas, I have learned it has its good sides and carries well in my inside vest pocket of Carhart work jacket. 
I have another handful of other LM tools but these are my go to tools.

I really do not believe there ever will be a PERFECT MT that will make the majority happy, just one to BUY to say you got the latest and greatest. 

I think LM wasted space at SHOT Show the last couple years, and well in 2018.  Instead of spending money there, lower prices and get the quality above those other MT makers.

PS: there are some great mods owned by members here, selecting three or four as suggestions may not hurt for future ideas, but I can not hold my breath that long. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I start and end the day above ground, it is a good day!

Hope yours is as good!
No Life Club Posts: 4,470 Is there a cure for multitool separation anxiety?
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2019, 01:25:58 PM »
  Any news as to what is going to appear this year??

• Leatherman Charge TTi (Mod) • Leatherman Signal • PocketToolX Piranha • Wenger 16520 Original Issue • LED Lenser M5 •
• Weber Y2K6 • Seagull S8 • David Hudson Bloodwood Didgeridoo •
OCD Squad Leader Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,562
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2019, 01:43:22 PM »
  Any news as to what is going to appear this year??
Half a Wave?

Emergency Kit: Ovo Sport, chocolate, cheese, crispbread and a coin
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,190
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2019, 01:47:25 PM »

Buy now or regret later
Sr. Member Posts: 265
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2019, 03:28:29 PM »
Blunt Pliers
Simple isn't it?
Just Blunt Pliers without the stupid interchangeable carbide cutters - I've been trying to think of a pair of real pliers that use carbide inserts? :think:

Blunt pliers and if possible standard fold out box cutter layer.

How taxing would that be.

Imagine it, a multitool where all you need do is discard the dull blade and insert a new one

Such joy  :whistle:

Their are some very high end pliers for saltwater fishing that use braised in carbide cutters .They get used a lot for Kevlar , Spectra ,and Stainless steel leader material .

I had apair back inthe day , when I did salt water fly fishing

Chris
Full Member Posts: 111
Re: Leatherman SHOT 2018
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2019, 04:06:02 PM »
Anyone remember the Fuse and Kick? seems we want to re introduce what was already out there, a kick 2 would be sweet with locking blades. And yes a wave 3 with an awl, and make a mini hole in the base of the bit driver slot to hold the 1/4 inch as well as the mini driver. just drill a small hole or give the user a removable plastic insert that takes the mini. Also make a juice E model, give it the wire strippers and longer phillips and flat blades, keep the scissors, loose the can opener, or just install a bit driver slot and use the remaining space for a awl.
Signal is really a skeletool on steroids so make it a plain blade and instead of the saw make it a fully serrated blade.  use a micra for the scissors and your well off??

 

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