Gauging response: LM Wave/Charge drop-in outside opening scissors? Who wants?

Metropolicity · **on:** September 17, 2011, 06:29:13 PM

I don't know if this belongs here, but it seems to have the biggest LM audience.

For me, I almost never use the saw when using MTs in the city, I have a few bush craft MTs that I occasionally use the saw, but by and large, I use scissors MUCH more.

I am in the process of designing some outside opening scissors for my Wave/Charges and I am wondering if anyone else would be interested. Ideally these would be drop into the Saw slot and would technically 'void' your warranty, but would be user replaceable if you needed to send your tool in for servicing.

I plan to water jet these out of 316 1/16" stainless and have the largest cutting surface one can design with having the right amount of leverage, likely bigger than the Surge's.

Who would want one? Water jetting isn't cheap, but if enough sets were ganged up, it would be worth the price!

captain spaulding · **Reply #1 on:** September 17, 2011, 08:07:20 PM

I would be very interested if we can get people on board with this. I think it is a great idea. What would a estimated cost be?

Accujohn · **Reply #2 on:** September 18, 2011, 05:04:20 AM

As opposed to just buying a Surge with outside opening scissors? Would the cost be less?

Outback in Idaho · **Reply #3 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:40:21 AM

Quote from: Accujohn on September 18, 2011, 05:04:20 AM

As opposed to just buying a Surge with outside opening scissors? Would the cost be less?

Would weigh less, and there would not be a locking pin issue with Surges. Hopefully Leatherman is working on a more weight-manageable Surge.

Good luck with the project.

Metropolicity · **Reply #4 on:** September 18, 2011, 08:14:10 AM

Thanks. Still not sure of cost.

I would NOT be able to EDC a Surge, I've tried a few times but it's just to heavy (I don't like sheaths, so it's on pocket clip for me)

Bruce909 · **Reply #5 on:** September 18, 2011, 09:05:31 AM

Hi Eric,

Count me in for a couple/few sets. I just checked my Charge ALX and I don't think there is room for 1/16" stock. The slot only measures about .115 to .118 but my dial calipers don't go very deep.

Also, depending on the response and the cost maybe we could make a few sets from a more elegant steel? Something with contrasting layers and heat treatable?

What are you plans for the pivot?

Bruce

Metropolicity · **Reply #6 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:18:43 PM

No clue about the pivots, haven't figured that out yet. Maybe brass tube with peened aluminum rod, or even stainless tube with peened aluminum rod.

There is PLENTY of room for a stacked 1/16" stock for a total of 1/8" thickness.

As for elegant steel, it's not as readily available as well as not as cost efficient. Like I said, it's just to gauge the response if I should continue forward to just prototype a set for myself.

Tofty · **Reply #7 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:44:56 PM

It's a good idea, anything that 'drops in' i'm sure will be very popular.....if the price is right.
I'm certainly interested.

It might also be an idea to provide something to substitute for the original scissors.

Metropolicity · **Reply #8 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:46:56 PM

Quote from: Tofty on September 18, 2011, 06:44:56 PM

It's a good idea, anything that 'drops in' i'm sure will be very popular.....if the price is right.
I'm certainly interested.

It might also be an idea to provide something to substitute for the original scissors.

hmm...I smell an awl brewing then. That also would be easy to manufacture. Suddenly this project got harder, much harder.

scrappy · **Reply #9 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:58:47 PM

I am interested but how do I take out the existing saw to install the scissors. I thought the screws required special drivers.

Metropolicity · **Reply #10 on:** September 18, 2011, 07:00:33 PM

not as special as you think. I have 2 sets of the security torx bits I found at a discount hardware store for under 3 bucks a set.

Take a look next time, UNLESS you have an older wave circa 2004-05-mid06 in which case, yes, those bits are very special, the dreaded 5 point torx. They are a bit more expensive, 14 bucks a set via ebay.

Tofty · **Reply #11 on:** September 18, 2011, 07:05:51 PM

This is all making far too much sense.
Better scissors in place of the much maligned saw.
An Awl in place of the even more maligned original scissors.
And with the multitool.org clip-in saw blades that can easily be descreetly carried in the sheath, no functionality has been lost and much has been gained.

And as 'Evil' has proven, quite a large awl can be fitted into the handle.

Not so special, security torx bits (TX10) on all new waves and titanium charges can be bought from most hardware shops at a not too restrictive cost. Aluminium charges have splined screws and there has been some discussion here on DIY methods of undoing these.

evil510 · **Reply #12 on:** September 18, 2011, 08:07:43 PM

Quote from: Tofty on September 18, 2011, 07:05:51 PM

And as 'Evil' has proven, quite a large awl can be fitted into the handle.

Don't forget about the scissors I made about a year and a half ago for my Wave. They kick the Surge's scissors ass Here's the original post..... Project Wave: Outside, One Hand Opening SuperScissors

captain spaulding · **Reply #13 on:** September 18, 2011, 08:13:58 PM

Quote from: evil510 on September 18, 2011, 08:07:43 PM

Quote from: Tofty on September 18, 2011, 07:05:51 PM
And as 'Evil' has proven, quite a large awl can be fitted into the handle.

Don't forget about the scissors I made about a year and a half ago for my Wave. They kick the Surge's scissors ass Here's the original post..... Project Wave: Outside, One Hand Opening SuperScissors

(Image removed from quote.)

Those scissors are HUGE!!!!!

Metropolicity · **Reply #14 on:** September 18, 2011, 08:32:47 PM

exactly Evil!

Not to steal your thunder, I just wanted to bring that innovation to the masses! Waterjetting parts and then a quick grind and polish.

The pivot will be the hardest part, but I THINK steel tube with aluminum peened rod will work perfect.

Accujohn · **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2011, 09:08:56 PM

How much are we talking about... I'll take a pair for my charge

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #16 on:** September 18, 2011, 09:33:58 PM

I'd definitely be in for at least one set. Send me a PM when you have any results with this (one way or the other) as I have some ideas that may help out.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

Threeme2189 · **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2011, 11:03:09 PM

This is a very good idea

But would they work in a Charge ALX?

Metropolicity · **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2011, 11:21:33 PM

as long as you can get the pivot screws off, anything is possible.

I made some wrenches but you can always use pliers to torque off the screws.

Accujohn · **Reply #19 on:** September 19, 2011, 12:02:46 AM

I bought the torx t10 security bits today. They sold them individually at Ace for $1.49. Thanks for the info

Bruce909 · **Reply #20 on:** September 19, 2011, 01:32:49 AM

Hi Eric,
I just went out to the garage to check the file slot size on my Charges with my calibrated gauge pins (# drills) and they are all about .113" +.002 -.000. Very consistent in fact much more consistent than I would have thought. It seems like the Charge could be shimmed to have a larger opening fairly easily but I don't have one I want to take apart today. By the way I don't have any Charge AL's but I think I have a fairly good assortment of Charges.

I checked a few Waves and the only one where a 1/8" drill would not go to the bottom of the slot was a 20th Anniversary...and I will not be making any mods to it anyway.

Bruce

Metropolicity · **Reply #21 on:** September 19, 2011, 01:39:49 AM

Quote from: Bruce909 on September 19, 2011, 01:32:49 AM

Hi Eric,
I just went out to the garage to check the file slot size on my Charges with my calibrated gauge pins (# drills) and they are all about .113" +.002 -.000. Very consistent in fact much more consistent than I would have thought. It seems like the Charge could be shimmed to have a larger opening fairly easily but I don't have one I want to take apart today. By the way I don't have any Charge AL's but I think I have a fairly good assortment of Charges.

I checked a few Waves and the only one where a 1/8" drill would not go to the bottom of the slot was a 20th Anniversary...and I will not be making any mods to it anyway.

Bruce

Hmmm. That's good food for thought. I am still designing the scissors and going to get a plastic prototype made for fit. I doubt that the scissors would drop all the way down into the saw slot, but my major concern will be the pivot.

Metropolicity · **Reply #22 on:** September 26, 2011, 06:17:42 AM

Did some design work tonite, The scissors should be good to go. I am going to laser cut some wood to mock it up to see if the torque is right.

I wanted to make a finger choil so it fit right under the thumb stud hole, your index finger should rest in there and give you more purchase on the scissors. Of course, the trademark triple jimp on the thumb handle.

There a bunch of holes, one is the thumbstud hole, one is for syncing the backspring with the scissor body, one for the scissor handle to rest on and the scissor pivot.

Time to make some DXF files and see how much its going to cost to get waterjet cut.

Threeme2189 · **Reply #23 on:** September 26, 2011, 06:27:36 AM

Just from eyeballing it I think it would kind of tough on ones thumb while pressing down on those scissors.
How thick is the handle material going to be?

Metropolicity · **Reply #24 on:** September 26, 2011, 06:30:16 AM

it has to be a 1/16". I was worried about the torque too but that's why I want to go mock it up in wood to see.

I wanted to max out the cutting surface, I'll see about making a folding handle, like the PSTII scissors.

Outback in Idaho · **Reply #25 on:** September 27, 2011, 06:34:31 AM

Where does one get stainless steel stock to work with?

Metropolicity · **Reply #26 on:** September 27, 2011, 06:36:27 AM

I got my neighbourhood metal super market, there's gotta be a metal monger where you are. Hardware stores sell variations of stainless, but it's mostly mild steel, CRS and HRS.

Cupboard · **Reply #27 on:** April 23, 2013, 10:04:23 PM

Bit of thread necromancy, but did anything happen to this?

Metropolicity · **Reply #28 on:** April 23, 2013, 10:10:21 PM

Quote from: Cupboard on April 23, 2013, 10:04:23 PM

Bit of thread necromancy, but did anything happen to this?

Not enough gusto to get going on this. Vic scissors are the closest thing to drop in now.

With the right tooling, it's pretty easy.

Grumpy · **Reply #29 on:** April 23, 2013, 10:19:14 PM

Would the fit the skeletool in place of the blade???

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Gauging response: LM Wave/Charge drop-in outside opening scissors? Who wants?

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