Gerber warranty is awesome!!! (PICS)

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Can't sleep... clown'll eat me!  Can't sleep... clown'll eat me!  Can't sleep... clown'll eat me!

-Bart Simpson.

[Gareth]

Just catching up with this thread 50ft and I'm sorry to hear about your less than stellar experience with Gerber UK.   Fortunately I've never had to deal with the returns department, and long may that be the case.

While I can sympathise that not all centres will have the ability to repair MT's I do feel they should have a basic working knowledge of what tools they might be dealing with, it wouldn't be that big of a database would it?  I might have thought that the spiritual successor to the 700 might be the Strata, was that what you were offered or was it a Suspension like thing?

[AimlessWanderer]

Thanks Gareth. For info (for fellow Brits) the Gerber warranty issues are actually handled by Silva customer service, though I don't feel that excuses them for not being informed.

There were two tools they offered in lieu, one was the Evo and the other was another suspenion-esque tool whose name escapes me right now (though I know I had to look it up - not the Strata). I've just had confirmation this evening that my replacements I managed to arrange via other means (NOT through Gerber) are on their way to me, so I should get some long term use and enjoyment out of a MP700 by carrying out my own repairs as necessary and not needing to call on their CS.

I'll give the Octane a go (if anyone wants to swap one for my skeletool  ) but I don't think I'll be throwing any more money Gerbers way for a while until we see some improvement. Improvement in customer support in the UK, and improvement in not needing customer support (My Flik is still in dock awaiting me finding time to sort it too *sigh*). I really quite like the designs of the Flik and MP700 ... seems it was a little too much to expect them to work on this occasion. I have been successful with getting a couple of Gerbers I'm very happy with too, but I'm only about a 40% success rate at best due to bad design or bad execution. Not great odds really. Then again it took three attempts to buy a Leatherman that didn't have shocking build quality so maybe I'm just jinxed ... or ... no don't get me started   

Sad really, I got a Gerber Fit recently (thanks again Bob  ) and I think it's excellent - but that's for another post/thread

I've got my fingers crossed on the incoming tools anyway

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

The Octane is a nice little tool for light jobs.  I'm very fond of it.  Not nearly as nice or up to the same tasks as the new Crunch I just got, but for what it is, compact and lightweight, it's a nice little tool.  Mine has served me well so far.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I think you will find that outside of the US most companies only offer an exchange service.  In their defense, this is probably all they are allowed to do, and due to legal reasons, they can't send out parts to let people repair the tools themselves.  In this case the problems are:

1) Cost- it's cheaper to replace a tool, and most folks are happy getting a new toy.
2) Liability- yes it's an easy fix, but if you do it wrong and hurt yourself with the tool (lock mechanisms are taken very seriously) then you could sue them for a very large amount of money.

I'm not trying to make excuses, and you know my feelings on the matter, but I do understand their position as well, and if we are pointing out their drawbacks, it is important to tell the whole story too so people reading this can make up their own minds.

Def

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I think you will find that outside of the US most companies only offer an exchange service.  In their defense, this is probably all they are allowed to do, and due to legal reasons, they can't send out parts to let people repair the tools themselves.  In this case the problems are:

1) Cost- it's cheaper to replace a tool, and most folks are happy getting a new toy.
2) Liability- yes it's an easy fix, but if you do it wrong and hurt yourself with the tool (lock mechanisms are taken very seriously) then you could sue them for a very large amount of money.

I'm not trying to make excuses, and you know my feelings on the matter, but I do understand their position as well, and if we are pointing out their drawbacks, it is important to tell the whole story too so people reading this can make up their own minds.

Def

Always the voice of reason and moderation.  (Pun intended.)   

Seriously though, the posts you make like this Grant are one of the reasons I've come to like this place so much.

[AimlessWanderer]

All fair points. 

From a corporate perspective I can fully understand taking a different approach to domestic customers than those scattered across the globe due to varying legal systems and logistical costs - but in fairness that's not my concern. From a customer perspective I need to know that the tool (or whatever other item for that matter) that I'm spending my hard earned on is going to be properly supported. There needs to be an understanding on both sides regarding the implications of each others actions. If I feel the warranty service may be not in line with my expectations (be it due to cost, location or otherwise), that could affect my purchasing decisions.

This policy of theirs also shouldn't prevent people from accessing support staff who are well informed about the product, nor pursueing or at least investigating (talking to someone who knows) a repair option if the customer is prepared so pick up at least some of the shipping costs maybe. I just want my toy to work, or be exchanged for another which gives me the characteristics I bought it for - as a consumer I've bought the right to be utterly selfish about the warranty and not worry about corporate risk management or commercial strategies

Being a member here I'm also in a privaledged position of knowing (or having access to) whether a tool is current or obsolete, or even in some cases due for production to be ceased. Also whether the tool is a long runner or is a new release that could turn out to be a fleeting fad. Most people who might be grabbing a tool that says reduced and lifetime warranty on it will not have the faintest clue how long it's liable to last, what difficulties they may encounter with it, or how the term "lifetime waranty" that's written on the box will be effected. Hopefully my experience will help someone somewhere have advance notice of how any issues arising may be handled - in the UK at time of writing at least.

What I'd like to see is customers able to contact Gerber direct from their website to explore options outside a straight exchange or when an exchange offered does not meet the needs satisfied by the original tool (even potentially considering part-ex/upgrade options). Also the "approved agents" should be either well informed about the products they may receive enquiries on or have a specific procedure for dealing with enquiries beyond their abilities - and this should be Gerber's (using them as an example) commercial responsibility as ultimately it's their name and their products that may suffer in stores and online if customers like me can walk away from a product issue unsatisfied.

By all means I can understand avoiding litigation and minimising liabilities and costs, but I think all such companies manufacturing and/or selling under the banner of lifetime warranty should be able to offer a little more in terms of support and information than was received this time ... especially when some of their biggest competitors would have a more customer focussed approach. I still feel short-changed. Again, these are just my views of what I personally want to see, and hopefully someone (corporate lurker) reading this might just think ... "you know what, that guy's got a point - we need to look into that", and if not at least a potential buyer might know what they're letting themselves in for 

As an aside, I've actually just taken the plunge on a CRKT Zillatool Jnr to try as an altenative to the Skeletool instead of purchasing an Octane (still looking to trade for one though). I'm in no way preaching against buying Gerber, but for me I have personally been dissuaded from chucking my money their way for the time being until either I feel I'm going to get better support in the UK or until I make my next drunken early hours of the morning spending spree because everything looks so FANTASTIC and all rational thought and otherwise cautious approach is chemically suppressed

As another aside, I'm VERY happy with my three "hand picked" MP700's and had one in my pocket since they landed (I'd have liked to have had the confidence to just buy one though - real glad I got a fantastic deal on them)

OK, I'll shut up now - Phew! That's better    Don't worry guys I'll come out of "work mode" soon (long week again  ) - I'll be cracking open the first beer in about an hour or so 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I agree, but having people ready to help you in a detailed manner is a costly thing to have.  It means that they have to recruit members of Multitool.org to answer phones, or at least make it mandatory that all of their CS people spend a minimum of six hours a day surfing this forum so they can know every detail of every tool they've made for the last 20 years.

You have to remember that multitools are the "b*tch" line for most companies- they make some money off multitools, but not a lot.  Multitools are priced the same or less than many knives offered by these companies (SOG, CRKT and Gerber are all in the same boat) but are significantly more complex with many more parts, and more of those parts moving.  And, anywhere other than this site that you go, they aren't appreciated nearly as much as the exotic handle/blade combo found on the rest of their products.

And, the warranty is nothing more than a selling feature- it costs them money to offer a warranty, but they offer it because everyone offers a warranty, and they need to remain competitive.  But, warranty claims cost money and they minimize that as much as possible by making the process as streamlined as possible.

Lastly, international representatives aren't in it because they give a rat's arse about the product- they are in it because it's an easy way to make money.  All you have to do is find a product that people want to buy, contact the manufacturer and put up enough money that they are ok with saying you can have as big a territory as you want.  At no point do you have to actually know anything about the product.  Educating such a company or holding out for one that does know what they are talking about is anotehr huge cost.

So, in a nutshell, you can get that level of service if you want it- just be prepared for the average Gerber multitool to be about 850GBP!

Def

[AimlessWanderer]

  and there I was thinking my rant was justified 

So what you're saying is that if UK prices only rise slightly I'll get it

I've spent all my working life in manufacturing and I'm not naive to the commercial pressures that exist. I'm also aware that some of these items aren't cheap and that if somone is paying/investing the sort of money that many of these tools go for, they (we) want it to work well and be reliable for some time otherwise we'd all be buying $5 multitools and nothing else 

The compromise is no doubt somewhere between the two standpoints - hence the definition - but you've got to admit that when buying a defective high end tool and being offered a low end tool as a replacement by someone who isn't really sure what the original tool was, isn't very good for anyone. It's like phoning Ford to say there's a problem with your Mondeo and being offered a Fiesta by a guy who sells air fresheners  How much does it cost really to put a phone number on a website and have someone there during office hours who is able to answer questions on your own product line?

I don't think I'm being that unreasonable 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Oh, I'm not excusing the EVO as a replacement for an Urban Legend (or any MP series for that matter)- that's the result of someone not knowing their product, and in my book is a darned good reason to not deal with them.  However, you don't have the option as you say since the website automatically redirects you to them so you can't contact Gerber directly.

It sucks, but we represent maybe one in ten thousand and are therefore statistically unimportant.

Well, other than being guys with big mouths on the internet! 

Def

[Dunc]

If it was me I'd splash it all over their Facebook page , I bet they will do something then !

[tattoosteve99]

Maybe we all should. Then they will come in here and read the posts. They'll think to theirselves uh what did we do.

[Mercury]

As it has been said before, we only represent a small fraction of the Market.  The clincher is that we are public and due to the impartial nature of the forum and it's admin team, we post the truth(ish). 

Is it wise for companies to read our ramblings and heed our advice?  Yes. 
Does it mean they will?  Maybe not.

[tattoosteve99]

Well small percentage or not Gerber needs to get it right. Word of mouth can make or break a company. Even a small percent can make a huge difference in the profit margins.

[Mercury]

Well small percentage or not Gerber needs to get it right. Word of mouth can make or break a company. Even a small percent can make a huge difference in the profit margins.

Very true about word of mouth, when it's done right.  If you let emotion in, it soils the point of the complaint.  That's what is so great about this site, most complaints are fairly rational so they aren't considered slander and that allows for the true scale of a problem to be revealed.  A company is more likely to listen to numerous rational reports than to one livid cursing customer. 

[AimlessWanderer]

I don't do Facebook but I figure that's for people who are dedicated fans anyway. Here is where people come for info before they buy tools (I know I did before nuphoria coaxed me into signing up).

We might be a select minority on here, but I'm pretty certain we influence many times our own populous ... and you're right Merc, you can pretty much be certain that negative viewpoints are well founded and rational (and generally in good humour too) not the rampant barrage of narrowminded drivel found elsewhere on the net

[Dunc]

The thing with Facebook is if you receive bad service and you relay that on their Facebook page then Gerber don't want their 20,000 + fans reading about it so they tend to put things right veryquickly 

[AimlessWanderer]

The thing with Facebook is if you receive bad service and you relay that on their Facebook page then Gerber don't want their 20,000 + fans reading about it so they tend to put things right veryquickly 

Good call!! I'll bear that in mind for next time.
I've put my own solution in place this time though, so I'll not persue it there this time. 
I still think this place has more longevity of valid information though. I think I'm right in saying that any comments posted over a week ago would be lost in the swamp right? 

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I don't do Facebook but I figure that's for people who are dedicated fans anyway. Here is where people come for info before they buy tools (I know I did before nuphoria coaxed me into signing up).

We might be a select minority on here, but I'm pretty certain we influence many times our own populous ... and you're right Merc, you can pretty much be certain that negative viewpoints are well founded and rational (and generally in good humour too) not the rampant barrage of narrowminded drivel found elsewhere on the net

I think you're right on the money here 50-ft... Where else are you going to find a group of guys who put their MT's through the kinds of things you all do?  Where else are they going to find a good source of feedback and suggestions based on their tools being used in real world situations, for real tasks and on the job.

Heck, even someone like me, an egg-head desk jockey can provide some insight with my more pedestrian uses of the tools I like to carry.  Even though I don't "need" to carry an MT with me every day, I still do.  Occasionally I run into a situation where it's easier for me to use a tool I've got on me or in my laptop bag, where it's just easier for me to do a quick fix on AV equipment or whatever, than to have to call IT-AVS and wait for them to come down, fix what needs to be done.... blah blah blah, and delay class because of it.

Small section of the market, maybe.  But one that I'd say is easily the most knowledgeable about MT's and their uses, and insightful when it comes to finding flaws and shortcomings, as well as suggestions for improvements and assessments of what works well in just about any of the tools we obsess over...

[Grant Lamontagne]

You are right- we are a dedicated lot, and for some strange reason, people often listen to us.

That having been said, let's do the math.  Since I don't have Gerber's numbers we'll have to go with Leatherman's.

Leatherman claims they produces over a million tools per year.  We have about 3,000 members here, and if each member buys one tool from Leatherman once a month (and I doubt everyone here buys one tool/month, and if they do it's not likely all the same brand) we are still only looking at 36,000 tools/year.  That means that our total potential is still well under 4%.

Since there's a lot less than 3,000 active members here, and most of us buy less than one tool per month, we are very likely a small fraction of that 4%, meaning we are actually quite insignificant when you really look at it.

Now convert that to Gerber, who may not sell as many units, but whose main business is knives, and we become an insignificant percentage of a barely significant side line to their main business.  That simply is not worth building repair facilities in every market so that the very few people who want parts can get them.

Sad but true.

Def

[Mercury]

But we are indeed the smartest and best dressed of all MT users.      

[Grant Lamontagne]

Can't argue with that assessment! 

Def

[New_World]

But we are indeed the smartest and best dressed of all MT users.      

+1 

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

But we are indeed the smartest and best dressed of all MT users.      

+1!