Any love for Wenger?

[basilio]

And this is basically model 1.23.03.
It is interesting because the keyring is attached directly to the liner.

[derekmac]

I don't remember either..... for sure the company website logo on the front scale is not common.
Perhaps other members will know more.

I've done more searching, and have come up with nothing.  To me, that makes my $3 Evogrip a little more special.

Oh, if anyone wants to buy it, I'll start the bidding at $1,000,000. 

[jcfiguet]

Interesting find, so a layer with the liner in the middle of it. Do you have a time frame for that model?

Yes, I think the layer with the middle liner is pretty standard...I have seen this configuration for all the orienteering tools, apart from the older ones with the "first generation" compass, like the one shown above.
As for the time frame, I don't know.
North Man?

Enki,
need to apologize, I was wrong!
The latest version of the orienteering tool does not have the middle liner!
I created a set of pictures to show the orienteering tool/compass evolution.
In every picture from left (older) to right (newer)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Very interesting !

I think :
- The 1st is late 1985 or early 1986
- The 2nd is 1896
- The 3rd, is between 1987 and 1991
- The 4th, is since 1992
This is based on various observations and cross made from catalogs, advertisements, books, personal supositions and knives of my collection. But of course it lacks precision and formal proofs !

[North Man]

Could be around these dates yes

[North Man]

Thanks!

There are some differences in the tang stamps if one use a magnifying glass. Most of them are just how deep the words look  and width of the lines if one can say. Just interesting to see, did not get any smarter by it Then there are the blade shape.

About the stamps and letters i will see later, i must collect more of them.
Many ideas in the head, it would be fun one day to use Wenger knives related to Mountains and Sport, then put in pictures of postcards of these mountains + sports. And also some letters With stamps and so on. The SAK and tourism and the list goes on

North Man,
here are the only two old models I have.
I took pictures of the tang markings, so you could try to compare.
I think this model is basically the 1.25.03
Too bad that the main blade was sharpened too much!!!!

It had to be a model with the magnifying glass The 64 can opener is in patents. Please how are the scales attached?

[basilio]

Very interesting !

I think :
- The 1st is late 1985 or early 1986
- The 2nd is 1896
- The 3rd, is between 1987 and 1991
- The 4th, is since 1992
This is based on various observations and cross made from catalogs, advertisements, books, personal supositions and knives of my collection. But of course it lacks precision and formal proofs !

Could be around these dates yes

Thanks!
If we all agree about the sequence, how about calling the orienteering tool/compass First, Second, Third and Fourth generation?
It would make much easier instead of referring to the compass with the words "black background", "metal compass" etc...
What do you think?

[basilio]

It had to be a model with the magnifying glass The 64 can opener is in patents. Please how are the scales attached?

Will take a look this evening, as I'm not home at the moment.
Would I need to put off the scales, or could a picture from the inside of the knife be fine?

[enki_ck]

Interesting find, so a layer with the liner in the middle of it. Do you have a time frame for that model?

Yes, I think the layer with the middle liner is pretty standard...I have seen this configuration for all the orienteering tools, apart from the older ones with the "first generation" compass, like the one shown above.
As for the time frame, I don't know.
North Man?

Enki,
need to apologize, I was wrong!
The latest version of the orienteering tool does not have the middle liner!
I created a set of pictures to show the orienteering tool/compass evolution.
In every picture from left (older) to right (newer)

Very interesting !

I think :
- The 1st is late 1985 or early 1986
- The 2nd is 1896
- The 3rd, is between 1987 and 1991
- The 4th, is since 1992
This is based on various observations and cross made from catalogs, advertisements, books, personal supositions and knives of my collection. But of course it lacks precision and formal proofs !

Good pictures. Would be best to update the Orienteering Tool page with them. I'll let you have the honors.

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...hp?page=Orienteering+Tool

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...galleryId=66&offset=0

[North Man]

It had to be a model with the magnifying glass The 64 can opener is in patents. Please how are the scales attached?

Will take a look this evening, as I'm not home at the moment.
Would I need to put off the scales, or could a picture from the inside of the knife be fine?

No, do not take of the scales, just see inside the aluminium liner inside the body of the knife

[North Man]

Interesting find, so a layer with the liner in the middle of it. Do you have a time frame for that model?

Yes, I think the layer with the middle liner is pretty standard...I have seen this configuration for all the orienteering tools, apart from the older ones with the "first generation" compass, like the one shown above.
As for the time frame, I don't know.
North Man?

Enki,
need to apologize, I was wrong!
The latest version of the orienteering tool does not have the middle liner!
I created a set of pictures to show the orienteering tool/compass evolution.
In every picture from left (older) to right (newer)

Very interesting !

I think :
- The 1st is late 1985 or early 1986
- The 2nd is 1896
- The 3rd, is between 1987 and 1991
- The 4th, is since 1992
This is based on various observations and cross made from catalogs, advertisements, books, personal supositions and knives of my collection. But of course it lacks precision and formal proofs !

Good pictures. Would be best to update the Orienteering Tool page with them. I'll let you have the honors.

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...hp?page=Orienteering+Tool

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...galleryId=66&offset=0

Good work everyone! And big thanks to Basilio

[ColoSwiss]

Great piece of work on the compass!  all around.

[jcfiguet]

I love also old Wengers !

Before 1908, Wenger company name was "Coutellerie Suisse" with a 3 faces stamp on the tang of the blade...

And I found one (Carbon steel blades)...
On the 1908 "Wenger & Co" catalog this is a "model 505".  I guess it dates between 1895 (new 3 faces stamp of "Coutellerie Suisse") and 1919 (begining of stainless steel).
It seems that Wenger has used this stamp on few knives until 1942.

Before restoration :


After a very important restoration :



Beautifull isn't it ?

[basilio]

I love also old Wengers !

I don't collect Wenger's so old, but it is really nice!

It had to be a model with the magnifying glass The 64 can opener is in patents. Please how are the scales attached?

Will take a look this evening, as I'm not home at the moment.
Would I need to put off the scales, or could a picture from the inside of the knife be fine?

No, do not take of the scales, just see inside the aluminium liner inside the body of the knife

Hey North Man, attached are the pictures you requested.
The first two are from the model with the bail.
The other are from the model with the keyring attached to the scales.
Hope they are clear enough.

Good pictures. Would be best to update the Orienteering Tool page with them. I'll let you have the honors.

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...hp?page=Orienteering+Tool

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...galleryId=66&offset=0

Sure, I'll do later

[North Man]

Excellent Pictures!
Yes the one with bail reminds or look very close to what i have seen from the late 60s and early 70s. Based on all functions and construction. Wenger did use more than one type of scale attaching in history.

[North Man]

I love also old Wengers !

Before 1908, Wenger company name was "Coutellerie Suisse" with a 3 faces stamp on the tang of the blade...

And I found one (Carbon steel blades)...
On the 1908 "Wenger & Co" catalog this is a "model 505".  I guess it dates between 1895 (new 3 faces stamp of "Coutellerie Suisse") and 1919 (begining of stainless steel).
It seems that Wenger has used this stamp on few knives until 1942.

Before restoration :
(Image removed from quote.)

After a very important restoration :
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Beautifull isn't it ?

Its a beauty for sure, love the tang stamp Wenger used during this period

[jcfiguet]

I love also old Wengers !

Before 1908, Wenger company name was "Coutellerie Suisse" with a 3 faces stamp on the tang of the blade...

And I found one (Carbon steel blades)...
On the 1908 "Wenger & Co" catalog this is a "model 505".  I guess it dates between 1895 (new 3 faces stamp of "Coutellerie Suisse") and 1919 (begining of stainless steel).
It seems that Wenger has used this stamp on few knives until 1942.

Before restoration :
(Image removed from quote.)

After a very important restoration :
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Beautifull isn't it ?

Its a beauty for sure, love the tang stamp Wenger used during this period

Next time I will show you a Wenger Tahara 1920's with cross shield (red and yellow-white) on scales and the 3 faces stamp on blade when its restoration will be finished !

[basilio]

Very interesting !

I think :
- The 1st is late 1985 or early 1986
- The 2nd is 1896
- The 3rd, is between 1987 and 1991
- The 4th, is since 1992
This is based on various observations and cross made from catalogs, advertisements, books, personal supositions and knives of my collection. But of course it lacks precision and formal proofs !

Good pictures. Would be best to update the Orienteering Tool page with them. I'll let you have the honors.

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...hp?page=Orienteering+Tool

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...galleryId=66&offset=0

Edited a little the wiki page.
What do you think?
I had a look at the 1992-1995 European catalog, and there are pages printed in 1993 that show the "third generation" compass.
So I included the 1993 year for the "third generation".
If someone wanted to edit more the wiki page (and perhaps my english) that would be great

[North Man]

Well done Basilio, i know it is much work to Research. It is an ok date for now, it could be 1991, this is the most close i can get to the 3rd type. Then the 4th that one can swirl is later in the 90s maybe 1996-1998 and up. This have the middle liner. Then the last is almost the same only with no middle liner. I must also mention to be aware of Wenger variations, since they are famous for this.
The first is 1985 and up, the second type is close, maybe 1986-87. Then again it could be different.

[jcfiguet]

Well done Basilio, i know it is much work to Research. It is an ok date for now, it could be 1991, this is the most close i can get to the 3rd type. Then the 4th that one can swirl is later in the 90s maybe 1996-1998 and up. This have the middle liner. Then the last is almost the same only with no middle liner. I must also mention to be aware of Wenger variations, since they are famous for this.
The first is 1985 and up, the second type is close, maybe 1986-87. Then again it could be different.

As you say Wenger is famous for lot of variations ! And we can find lot of small differents details even on same knives of same year.

A friend just show me a 4th generation compas on a 3rd generation ruler... It's strange, but no body can say the compas was changed by the owner or it was manufactured like that, in that case we can guess this knife was manufactured just at the begining of the 4th generation and Wenger wanted to exhaust old stock ok rulers... 
See this picture from "The Illustrated Directory of Special Forces 2002" :

Is it a new generation ?

I see we are OK for the 1st and the 2nd generation dates.
For the 3rd generation, I made a mistake : it was 1992 as you can see on Wenger catalog 1992/1995 for Europ.
So, the 4th generation is probably late 1990's (after 1995).

[North Man]

Good info, i can see on the new knives and the Giant knife that the last Compass is without the middle liner. So the one on this Super-Talent is probably not the fully New or last. I believe we should be ok with Basilio`s Picture and info since it would be even more variations and types. There are probably variations and interim models.

[jcfiguet]

Good info, i can see on the new knives and the Giant knife that the last Compass is without the middle liner. So the one on this Super-Talent is probably not the fully New or last. I believe we should be ok with Basilio`s Picture and info since it would be even more variations and types. There are probably variations and interim models.

I think the more important is to define "big generations" (4 or 5) with years and to know it can exists variations and interim model between 2 generations...
Be carfull with the Giant knife, this knife is just there to show all wenger tools, not variations and it is manufactured manually, lot of tools are adjusted to work !

[basilio]

[See this picture from "The Illustrated Directory of Special Forces 2002" :
(Image removed from quote.)
Is it a new generation ?

I see we are OK for the 1st and the 2nd generation dates.
For the 3rd generation, I made a mistake : it was 1992 as you can see on Wenger catalog 1992/1995 for Europ.
So, the 4th generation is probably late 1990's (after 1995).

WOW!
Thank you so much for the picture!

I think we can consider the wiki page just an interim solution untill we found more informations.
I'll update it if we'll discover more.
On thing interesting to notice is that all the pictures from the 1992-1995 europ. catalog are showing the compass with the front side facing the reader (i.e. the same side of the wenger shield on the scale).
I think this was probably done only to show the compass.

[North Man]

Good info, i can see on the new knives and the Giant knife that the last Compass is without the middle liner. So the one on this Super-Talent is probably not the fully New or last. I believe we should be ok with Basilio`s Picture and info since it would be even more variations and types. There are probably variations and interim models.

I think the more important is to define "big generations" (4 or 5) with years and to know it can exists variations and interim model between 2 generations...
Be carfull with the Giant knife, this knife is just there to show all wenger tools, not variations and it is manufactured manually, lot of tools are adjusted to work !

Yes i know, thats why i double checked and searched. Always Absolutely we must use the main types into a 4 or 5 model types. I put in a Picture on the 1 31 03 i have showed before. Atleast this should be from the late 90s or maybe. This type Compass i have seen around. With the middle liner. I did search to try and find a fully date for when this was introduced, swirl and so on. I looked on knives and all material i could find. again good work by you and everyone!

[North Man]

Here is the same Compass, With the Arrow. This one is also rather accurate.

[North Man]

Here is a picture with a good Compass to the left (swirl to North). Not easy to see ho accurate from a picture, i have also tested this Wenger against a military type Compass. This Wenger on my knife is very good and can be used. Atleast to get a direction. Then i have the Wenger type two. Have seen this broken on atleast two knives. This then may have a fault. It will jump out of place.

PS the Picture is just to show them, if to be used one must not have them near each other + the key ring/chain is magnetic and so on. You know

[jcfiguet]

Good info, i can see on the new knives and the Giant knife that the last Compass is without the middle liner. So the one on this Super-Talent is probably not the fully New or last. I believe we should be ok with Basilio`s Picture and info since it would be even more variations and types. There are probably variations and interim models.

I think the more important is to define "big generations" (4 or 5) with years and to know it can exists variations and interim model between 2 generations...
Be carfull with the Giant knife, this knife is just there to show all wenger tools, not variations and it is manufactured manually, lot of tools are adjusted to work !

Yes i know, thats why i double checked and searched. Always Absolutely we must use the main types into a 4 or 5 model types. I put in a Picture on the 1 31 03 i have showed before. Atleast this should be from the late 90s or maybe. This type Compass i have seen around. With the middle liner. I did search to try and find a fully date for when this was introduced, swirl and so on. I looked on knives and all material i could find. again good work by you and everyone!

Last night, after many and many searches, I found 6 generations of orienting tools...

- 1° generation : End 1985 or begining of 1986
- 2° generation : 1986
- 3° generation : 1991 (in Wenger catalog 1991 and in next catalog 1992/1995)
- 4° generation : after 1995 (1996 ? 1997 ? 1998? or more ?)
- 5° generation : around 2002 (in Wenger catalog 2002/2003 and in "The Illustrated Directory of Special Forces 2002")
- 6° generation : around 2007 (exists on the first 2007 Giant knife and on a 2007 Evo S54 of a friend... But in Wenger catalog 2007 and next catalogs I'm pretty sure there show old photos of the compas...)


For 1° generation to 4° generation, refere to previous photos...

For 5° generation: the ruler use 2 layers and it's separated by liner



For 6° generation: the ruler is hollow, it use 3 layers, it's not separated by liner and the compass is a bit different.

[basilio]

Good find!
Didn't have any idea about an hollow ruler!
Since it appears that North Man has a 5th generation and jcfiguet the 6th, would you mind if I use your pictures for the wiki?
I'll give full credits, of course
---
North Man what do you mean when you talk about an "Arrow" in the compass?

[jcfiguet]

Good find!
Didn't have any idea about an hollow ruler!
Since it appears that North Man has a 5th generation and jcfiguet the 6th, would you mind if I use your pictures for the wiki?
I'll give full credits, of course
---
North Man what do you mean when you talk about an "Arrow" in the compass?

No probem tu use photos, but please add "http://www.fans-du-couteau-suisse.com" on each photos (respect for the author).

[enki_ck]

Good find!
Didn't have any idea about an hollow ruler!
Since it appears that North Man has a 5th generation and jcfiguet the 6th, would you mind if I use your pictures for the wiki?
I'll give full credits, of course
---
North Man what do you mean when you talk about an "Arrow" in the compass?

No probem tu use photos, but please add "http://www.fans-du-couteau-suisse.com" on each photos (respect for the author).

Quite a lot of progress on dating the development of this tool in a short time. Great work Basilio, jcfiguet and North Man.

[jcfiguet]

Good find!
Didn't have any idea about an hollow ruler!
Since it appears that North Man has a 5th generation and jcfiguet the 6th, would you mind if I use your pictures for the wiki?
I'll give full credits, of course
---
North Man what do you mean when you talk about an "Arrow" in the compass?

No probem tu use photos, but please add "http://www.fans-du-couteau-suisse.com" on each photos (respect for the author).

Quite a lot of progress on dating the development of this tool in a short time. Great work Basilio, jcfiguet and North Man.

Thanks for the compliment, but there is still so much work to restore a Wenger 'time-line' as the well known Victorinox 'time-line' !