What do you Drive?

[gregozedobe]

Do you know of any car manufacturers that significantly lowered their prices after moving design/production/ownership etc to a lower cost country or becoming part of a more efficient group ?

Well, my Skoda Octavia vRS (made in the Czech Republic using VW mechanicals) was significantly cheaper AND better equipped than the almost mechanically identical VW Golf GTi .  And as a bonus Skodas generally do better in reliability surveys than the parent VW brand (but my Skoda doesn't have a VW badge - although that may be regarded as a plus since "dieselgate" trashed the VW reputation     )

[dks]

I have a friend who was a test driver for Nissan and he was very proud of the fact that the UK's Sunderland plant was held up as a beacon of "how to do it" throughout the global group.

My car is a Renault, based on a Nissan drive system, built in Korea.   As long as it works then what have I got to complain about?

..nothing, provided you are aware of that, the quality is acceptable and, any savings were passed on to you.

[dks]

I was reading that the profit for an AUDI is 4 times more than for the equivalent VW, even though they may be built at the same place, with the same main parts.

you pay for the badge.


Dieselgate affected the whole VAG group, from what I understand.

VAG had made efforts to focus it on VW, protecting their other brands, even thought they use the same engines and are also affected

[gregozedobe]

I was reading that the profit for an AUDI is 4 times more than for the equivalent VW, even though they may be built at the same place, with the same main parts.

you pay for the badge.

Yep,  lots of mechanicals shared in the VW group of brands, generally with profit margins increasing as you move upwards in "perceived prestige":

Skoda, Seat, VW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley.

There has been a lot of effort put into platform sharing to reduce unit costs = increased profits.

IIRC Bugatti is the notable exception - it was done as an ego-boosting loss-leader brand with VW losing money on every one they sold.  Although I have an idea that some particular VW models may have also lost money due to poor sales (eg VW Phaeton )

Dieselgate affected the whole VAG group, from what I understand.

VAG had made efforts to focus it on VW, protecting their other brands, even thought they use the same engines and are also affected

Yep, the exact same engines used the same software, and it wasn't just the 4 cyl diesel engines affected, the V6 diesels (VW, Audi & Porsche) had similar software cheats.  It is interesting how much more generous VW USA is treating existing USA VW owners compared with what they are (not) doing for owners in other countries.

Mind you, I've read that other brand's diesels were also nowhere near as "clean" as they were supposed to be when tested by driving in real world conditions.  Despite their fuel economy advantages it seems that diesels are becoming less and less popular, especially in cities with air quality problems.

[firiki]

...
I am not sure who makes what where these days

Free market, competition and all that jazz...

[magentus]

...
I am not sure who makes what where these days

Free market, competition and all that jazz...

Not all that jazz - jazz is mostly good and beneficial 

[eamo]

recently bought a 2nd hand skoda diesel, dealer told me i'd be getting a recall letter at some stage to update the software due to the emissions cheat/bug/whatever

[dks]

Just like published fuel economy, emissions figures are a standardised way to see how a car compares with others, in a standardised test. They allow comparison and allow the governments to tax them on these factors.

It should be understood that these figures will differ in real use, which is why people never get  the MPG the manufacturer advertises.

What VAG did was to cheat in the test, making their cars compare favourably with others and get taxed less (possibly). some people bought the car thinking it was more environmentally friendly than a similar car from another company and now feel betrayed. (there were statistics on how more people may die from these extra emissions)

As pointed out, the US seems to be taking the mater a lot more seriously than other countries - in Europe it is as it never happened and VAG is still king of morality. In Australia it seems to be the same. It is considered like a joke, possibly due to good lobbying from VAG. - I did not notice their sales suffering here and they still do as well in studies, surveys etc.

[Grant Lamontagne]

The car brand situation is very confusing on its own these days..

You have FIAT and JEEP together, exchanging parts and quality control   (and ofcourse you have fiat, Ferrari, alfa romeo etc in too),  Land rover and Jaguar are owned by the same Indian company that makes the Tata Nano (talk about prestige) You have the VAG group that could do no wrong as they enforced a higher ethical standard, being German, than the rest of the world, manipulating their emissions, cheating really, with their German flagship the Tuareg (and Q7 and others) actually being made in Slovakia, though the dealers always tell you that they are made in Germany, Volvo motors is owned by the Chinese and the production is slowly being shifted to China, what we consider US cars being made outside of the US (and Japanese cars made outside of Japan), despite what the dealers will tell you most electronic and peripheral systems are not unique to their company but actually produced by a few companies and sold to all interested car companies (The NCAP test show that premium and non premium companies can achieve similar scores, using many of the same systems, Porsche Cayenne uses Korean tyres as OE)  and so on.

Whereas any company can produce a good product in any country, as long as they use the same equipment and have good training and QA, QC, they all imply that their products area actually made in the country where their company originated from, charging a premium for the higher cost of their country, local expertise, traditional craftsmanship, ethical superiority etc...  Do you know of any car manufacturers that significantly lowered their prices after moving design/production/ownership etc to a lower cost country or becoming part of a more efficient group ?

Volkswagen imports cars to NA from both Germany and Mexico, some of which are the same models.  For example, we get both the Golf and the Jetta from both places.  The Mexican versions are called the City Golf and City Jetta and cost a significant amount less than the German counterparts.  They also tend to be the previous generation too- when I bought the Mk 5 Golf the City Golfs were still available but they were Mk 4's with the smaller (1.7L engine vs the 2.5L engine in the Mk 5) and the older body styling were being sold right next to them.

And no, it wasn't a used car they had on the lot...

Def

[dks]

so they sold a lower spec, older model, for less than the newer, more powerful one?

Shock !

It would have been nice to have the same exact model, with the Mexican one being cheaper, possibly with a big Made in Mexico sign on it (in addition to "German Engineering") so that those that paid more would be bale to brag more


something similar was happening with Scoda and SEAT, when they would not get the latest VAG engines (with the latest software, emissions ) to justify their lower price here

[Grant Lamontagne]

They aren't older models, they are current production of the old design.  The Mexicans are good at that, they were still manufacturing the original Beetle when the New Beetle came out- in fact they were cranking them out in the same factory as the new ones.

Def

[dks]

A beetle made 10 years ago is not going to be the same as a  VW golf made 10 years ago

with older cars the actual cost becomes less and less, and they will not have the talest performance or safety improvements

[Grant Lamontagne]

Actually, they are.  The New Beetle has been made on a Golf chassis since it was introduced.   

It's the same car, just with a different body.

Def

[dks]

[NKlamerus]

Got the light bar in the new truck

[Gareth]

Just like published fuel economy, emissions figures are a standardised way to see how a car compares with others, in a standardised test. They allow comparison and allow the governments to tax them on these factors.

It should be understood that these figures will differ in real use, which is why people never get  the MPG the manufacturer advertises.

What VAG did was to cheat in the test, making their cars compare favourably with others and get taxed less (possibly). some people bought the car thinking it was more environmentally friendly than a similar car from another company and now feel betrayed. (there were statistics on how more people may die from these extra emissions)

As pointed out, the US seems to be taking the mater a lot more seriously than other countries - in Europe it is as it never happened and VAG is still king of morality. In Australia it seems to be the same. It is considered like a joke, possibly due to good lobbying from VAG. - I did not notice their sales suffering here and they still do as well in studies, surveys etc.

Oddly enough I get better MPG than Renault claimed and, having thought this was odd, it seems that everyone who has reported on their Koleos has had the same experience and even more so on the lower powered engine.

[dks]

those cheats at Renault......

[Gareth]

those cheats at Renault......

I think they're doing it wrong.

[dks]

they are giving car manufacturers a bad reputation.... VAG will sue them

[dks]

New 500l roofbox

 a bit of noise, but no noticeable effect on  performance/fuel consumption

[Gareth]

planning a trip?

[ducttapetech]

Nice!
Been tooling around on the farm with this.

[dks]

planning a trip?

just need more cargo space

[dks]

Nice!
Been tooling around on the farm with this.

now or 50 years ago ?   

[ducttapetech]

Nice!
Been tooling around on the farm with this.

now or 50 years ago ?   

LOL!
Now. It's my 1953 Ford Jubilee.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Nice roof box DKS!  I have been looking for something similar for my trailer so I can carry some stuff that shouldn't be out in the open, like $300-400 kayak paddles.  I figure I could nestle something like that on the crossbars between the boats and carry all the associated boat stuff in it, or put our luggage in it when we travel rather than strapping it down to the trailer bed in a cargo box like we currently do.

Def

[dks]

I was thinking of trailer (I still am), but the total cost would have been 3000Euro (which is not a huge amount, but still something to consider) and you make the, already long, vehicle, longer. You just can not have it with you all the time and when on holiday you may not have suitable place to store it safely, at your holiday destination. You can, however, carry a lot more weight.

This roofbox can be left on the car all the time, especially when on holiday. It does add an extra 50cm to the height of the car, so you may not be able to park in all underground parking places. (At one place I park I now only have 2cm of clearance).  (The roofbox is about 225cm long, 87wide and 37 high)

The roofbox is really good for bulky, lighter objects (100kg is the bars limit, and the box weighs 20)

It is not that easy to load as it is high up. Shorter people may need a ladder. I filled it with some empty boxes, so I was actually able to carry shopping in it, putting it in the boxes.

I also got 3 roof bike racks, but I do not think I can fit more than one, with the box on.

You can get some narrow ones that allow you to carry a lot of extra items on the roof bars

On the plus side, with the jeep, you will not be able to notice any additional wind noise   

[Grant Lamontagne]

Here you can get a decent utility trailer for $500-1000.  I bought mine for $500 and put another $500ish into it to upgrade the lights to LED's and replace the coupler and chains with ones that weren't rusted.  The first time I took it anywhere it jumped off the ball, snapped the chains and hit a railway line, denting the coupler so it no longer fit on the ball.  I had to call a flatbed truck to come and pick it up.   

I hate putting stuff on the roof- it isn't easy to reach, and is that much harder to lift a 50-60 pound boat seven feet in the air to put on the roof.  Plus, as I found out this winter, I have next to no clearance under the overhang of the garage, so a roof rack (and anything on it!) would have just made that much worse.

Storage of my trailer is a pain in the bum.  I currently have it stored at my landlord's cottage, which is an hour and a half drive away, which is remarkably inconvenient.

Def

[dks]

For me to get a trailer I will need to install a tow bar, which I was quoted as costing 1400 Euro, for the factory one. I do have a pickup truck too, so I do not need a trailer all the time.

[Grant Lamontagne]

That doesn't sound reasonable.  I picked up the aftermarket hitch reciever for the Jeep for less than $100 and installed it myself in about an hour.  It would have gone a lot faster had there been more than a centimeter and a half or so of clearance to get my wrenches in!   

Def