Swords.

[Chako]

I have always held a fascination with swords at an early age. My first was a cheap wall hanger that my father bought me while in grade 9. It was a terribly copy of the famous El Cid made in Toledo Spain. No way to sharpen it, etc...but I thought it was the best thing in the world. I was a little let down after doing some research on it, finding out that the quillon bears a slight resemblance to the real thing...and that was about it. I didn't learn much afterwards about what comprised a real sword as opposed to a decorative object, and thus, I bought a few more cheap swords that I eventually gave away for better items. I hadn't figured at the time that stainless steel blades just plain sucked, with cheap fittings, etc.

That day came when I swung one for fun and nearly had the blade go through a wall as the pommel broke with a metal ping in my hands. Yes, after that, I wanted decorative objects that were sharp and useable for its intended purpose.

Then I came across a great web site...much like MT.O for MTs and SAKS. This one is called the Sword Buyers Guide. From here, I learned quite a bit about what is good, and what is bad and should be avoided at all cost. I also learned that you needn't spend a fortune for some good swords.

http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/

There is also a sister site called Sword Manufacturers guide which was highly informative on where and sometimes, how swords are made.

http://www.sword-manufacturers-guide.com/SBGoverview.html

With these two pieces of good information, I bought my first good sword, a Valiant Armories Signature Castile. It being a nice Medieval arming sword, I figured it was a great place to start. When I got it in, I was blown away at how different a real sharp sword was compared to the multitude of sword like objects that I previously fell for. I also wanted a nice quality sheath, and the Signature line didn't disappoint.

My second move was to try a rapier. After much looking around, the Hanwei Taza Cup Hilt rapier caught my eye. As the Castile came with an arming belt to wear it, I also bought a rapier belt and hanger so that I could also wear it. When the Taza came in, I was equally amazed at this sharp and deadly rapier. I also got the Main Gauche with it. I did a few thrusts and was horrified at how deadly this rapier was.

Well this was before I found MT.O and started collecting MTs and SAKS. I figured it was time to get a few more pieces that meet my requirements...and thus, I just bought 3 more swords for my growing small collection. That and my wall sword storage is fairly bare.

I did not have anything in the ancient lineup, and was curious about either something in the Roman, Celtic, or Greek period. I found a nice cheap and cheerfully sharp Celtic sword produced by Hanwei. It also is a looker with an anthropomorphic handle that isn't all that historically accurate, but the blade geometry which is a leaf style, is. I know that Hanwei produces good items. The price was right, and curiosity kicked in.

My next purchase is a Katana. I had a few cheap junk items that I did not like. After doing much reading, I have found that Musashi, produced in China, are your best bang for the buck in the katana market. For less than 100 dollars, you get a hand forged and honed blade that also feature a real hamon and real ray skin grip. By all accounts, these swords could be selling for far more. I also like that they come razor sharp. These make great light cutters...and seems like a good start into the world of Katanas. I got the Musashi Tomoe Katana.

Next, I wanted something with a Chinese origin. I decided upon a Hanwei Military Dadao because it is very different from the other blades I have or will have in the future. That curiosity bug again I guess. Either way, the history behind this sword is fascinating.

So that means I will be up to a few pieces. I strongly suspect once these come in, I will have to do some research and find out how they would be carried and get the appropriate harnessing for them. I think I am trying to get a nice variety of sword types eventually.

Anyone else collect swords, or have experience with them?

[Millhouse]

A part of me would love a decent katana, but I can't justify the purchase.

[Mr. Whippy]

My only experience is fencing.  Foil, epee' and saber.  Sounds like you're more of a saber kind of guy.

It's a great sport and now with electric epees, etc, there are far fewer dot-like bruises involved.

Pistol grip epee' is my preferred weapon, btw

[badwolf]

Interesting read I had what was advertised as a 'Samurai Sword' when I was eighteen, where does the time go I saved for weeks and ordered it from this company http://www.battleorders.co.uk/ amazed their still in business, it cost me £80 back then. Well it arrived, me all excited, it was nice looking and quite well made, had that wavy pattern on the blade edge. The scabbard is it was, well poop, heavier than the sword, made of metal with really tacky stick on plastic still overall I liked it, swinging it about in the garden was the most I ever did with it, did make a wooden display stand for it. The sword is still around, my brother in laws brother has it, not promising anything but will try and get some pics. Glad I found though, at least you can walk down the street with one on your belt without people thinking you crazy, psycho or both

ps. Just seen Mr. Whippy post, Fencing, I'd like to try that

[Gareth]

I've taught western Martial Arts for about 14 years, does that count?
 

I've both taught and lead this group; http://www.dawnduellists.co.uk/ though I'm currently on a well earned sabbatical and have handed over all duties to others. 

It's been a while since I looked in my kit cupboard but I have about 10 usable swords and a glut of other things.

[Mr. Whippy]

I've taught western Martial Arts for about 14 years, does that count?
 

I've both taught and lead this group; http://www.dawnduellists.co.uk/ though I'm currently on a well earned sabbatical and have handed over all duties to others. 

It's been a while since I looked in my kit cupboard but I have about 10 usable swords and a glut of other things.

Ok.  That's just cool. I didn't think such things were taught anymore.


Quite excellent. 

[badwolf]

I've taught western Martial Arts for about 14 years, does that count?
 

I've both taught and lead this group; http://www.dawnduellists.co.uk/ though I'm currently on a well earned sabbatical and have handed over all duties to others. 

It's been a while since I looked in my kit cupboard but I have about 10 usable swords and a glut of other things.

Ok.  That's just cool. I didn't think such things were taught anymore.


Quite excellent. 

That's darn awesome, wow Gareth

[Gareth]

I've taught western Martial Arts for about 14 years, does that count?
 

I've both taught and lead this group; http://www.dawnduellists.co.uk/ though I'm currently on a well earned sabbatical and have handed over all duties to others. 

It's been a while since I looked in my kit cupboard but I have about 10 usable swords and a glut of other things.

Ok.  That's just cool. I didn't think such things were taught anymore.


Quite excellent. 

Cheers chaps.  back in 1994 when my group started there was almost no-one doing anything like it, but in the intervening years there has been a massive resurgence of interest.  My city alone boasts three distinct groups, and there are hundreds all over the world.  Nowhere near as big as almost any of the  Eastern Martial styles, but getting more popular every year. 

  I'll also quickly point out the difference between Western Martial Arts groups (WMA) and re-enactment/Ren-Fair groups.  What most WMA groups are looking at are actual treatises (text books) written anywhere from 100 years ago to over 700 years ago, with the oldest know book dating from the late 13th century.  In that timespan there are hundreds of different books from all over Europe covering many different weapons and even more different styles.  I have NOT managed to read them all.
  What the majority of re-enactment groups do is a simple style of swordplay that is meant to look like combat but is also meant to be as safe as possible, which is a rather different emphasis from what  a Martial Arts groups does.  There are however groups and individuals that cross the divide. 

[Sparky415]

I put a bit of an edge on a mates re-enactment sword that is destined to be a wall hanger now

[Chako]

Very nice Gareth. Nothing like that around where I am. Come to think of it, not much of anything around here. However, I did get a subscription several years ago for a now defunct magazine called WMA Illustrated. I was able to get volume 1, 2, and 3. Never did get volume 4, which I believe was never published. A shame as the magazine was fantastic.

I have also read a few other books on WMA, but that is about as far as it got for me.

I do not have a saber...but I am planning on getting one some time. I was thinking Cold Steel. Yes, the owner is a tad eccentric, but I hear his sabers are very good. Any suggestions on what I should get down the road?

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I've always been fond of swords, but never really had the opportunity to buy one that is truly functional and well made.

Many years ago I did have the opportunity to buy something I'd been wanting for a while, and I've kept it in good shape and it is still a fearsome weapon.

I've got me one of these bad boys...



60" hickory handle and the head is 1.5 lbs. the bit is 14" of total edge, and I keep it razor sharp.  Many years ago at the Nor-Cal Ren-Faire, back when it was still at Black Point in Novato, I cut all the way through 5 hay bales in one swing with it, to settle a bet.  I won.

[Chako]

That looks good Sparky415.

Heinz, that is quite the axe you have there.

Here are a few photos of the 3 that I currently have.

Here is the first and most sentimental of the lot. A real junker.










Next up is the Valiant Armories  Castile.









And the last, a Hanwei Taza Cup Hilt Rapier with main Gauche.

[Gareth]

that valentine is a lovely bit of kit and, especially given the money, the hanwei stuff is excellent.

When it comes to the Cold Steel swords (and sabre's), while they are nicely made, they are very notably much heavier then they should be.   Not an issue if it's going to hang on a wall or take a few swipes at a side of pig, but would be a real issue if you actually had to fight with the thing.  Not that I'm suggesting you should ever have to BTW.

It nicely leads into one of the most common misconceptions about European swords; that they are heavy lumps of steel used to bludgeon people to death.  A study at the Tower of London Armoury (one of the best collections of European arms and armour) showed that even a medieval two handed sword was very unlikely to weigh more than 3 1/2 pounds.  Also the balance of a good sword will make it simply float in the hand.

[Chako]

I guess Windlass from India might be a better maker of sabers? I know they make them for the military around the world. 

[Gareth]

Quite honestly you might actually be just as cheap looking at some original pieces.  I don't really know the Canadian market of course, but for the £300+ I'd have to buy a modern Cold Steel blade for, I could reasonably expect be able to buy a mid 19th Century sabre in nice condition.

Here's a nice example I'd be tempted with, it's even in Canada: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-BRITISH-RIFLE-VOLUNTEERS-1821-SWORD-SABRE-/140654274911?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item20bfa5e95f

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Chako,

that Castile is sweet!     The blade looks just like a 10th or 11th century viking sword blade too... it's very similar in other ways to the old style norse swords.  The quillion is very similar, though the pommel counterweight is very British/Spanish... Norse swords usually had those egg shaped or lobed pommels on them.  Nice scabbard too.  Is it just formed leather, or is there a wood housing in there as well?

[frugalscotty]

I've taught western Martial Arts for about 14 years, does that count?
 

I've both taught and lead this group; http://www.dawnduellists.co.uk/ though I'm currently on a well earned sabbatical and have handed over all duties to others. 

It's been a while since I looked in my kit cupboard but I have about 10 usable swords and a glut of other things.

It appears our friendly moderator is still listed on the instructors page.

http://www.dawnduellists.co.uk/ddsInstructors.asp#GarethHunt

I thought others might care to read your resume. Amazing the diversity we have among our members.

[Chako]

Thanks Gareth. Not exactly into antiques however, but it is food for thought.

Yes, the sword is based on a type X oakshott blade with an upgraded hilt dating to around the late 1200's. The sword is called the Castile because it is based loosely on King Sancho IV of Castile in both the pommel, grip, and scabbard.

Historically not that far off, as many of the older blades did get re-hilted to keep them up to date during this time period.

As for the scabbard, it is wood wrapped in leather.

http://www.algonet.se/~enda/oakeshott_eng.htm

[Gareth]

I've taught western Martial Arts for about 14 years, does that count?
 

I've both taught and lead this group; http://www.dawnduellists.co.uk/ though I'm currently on a well earned sabbatical and have handed over all duties to others. 

It's been a while since I looked in my kit cupboard but I have about 10 usable swords and a glut of other things.

It appears our friendly moderator is still listed on the instructors page.

http://www.dawnduellists.co.uk/ddsInstructors.asp#GarethHunt

I thought others might care to read your resume. Amazing the diversity we have among our members.

terrible picture though.

[dks]

It nicely leads into one of the most common misconceptions about European swords; that they are heavy lumps of steel used to bludgeon people to death. 

but, how about William Wallace´s Sword It is quite big.   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Sword

[Gareth]

It nicely leads into one of the most common misconceptions about European swords; that they are heavy lumps of steel used to bludgeon people to death. 

but, how about William Wallace´s Sword It is quite big.   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Sword

Quote from the Wiki article:

"There is reason to believe that this sword did not belong to William Wallace. The blade does not possess a fuller — a near universal feature of blades with this type of cross-section ([[lenticular)[4] except in processional swords of the Renaissance. "

Processional swords, or bearing swords, were often oversized and over weight objects designed to show a persons importance, not for carrying into a fight.

About the biggest two handed sword was the German Zweihander and even they would weigh in at 4 1/2 - 5 pounds.  There are larger/heavier ones out there, but again they could well have been bearing swords.

[dks]

Quote from the Wiki article:

"There is reason to believe that this sword did not belong to William Wallace. The blade does not possess a fuller — a near universal feature of blades with this type of cross-section ([[lenticular)[4] except in processional swords of the Renaissance. "

  Yes, but you can not believe everything they say in Wikipedia.. 

Next they will claim that Braveheart was not historically 100% accurate 

[Gareth]

Quote from the Wiki article:

"There is reason to believe that this sword did not belong to William Wallace. The blade does not possess a fuller — a near universal feature of blades with this type of cross-section ([[lenticular)[4] except in processional swords of the Renaissance. "

  Yes, but you can not believe everything they say in Wikipedia.. 

Next they will claim that Braveheart was not historically 100% accurate 

  That film has done more damage to Scottish history that anything else I can think of.
 

[Chako]

Isn't that the truth.

[Chako]

Wow that was quick! I ordered on December the 5th and received on the 13th. Kult of Athena rocks.

First up is the Hanwei Military Dadao. I am amazed at the feel and sharpness of this piece.



It comes with a fairly nice leather sheath. These often didn't come with one, so the inclusion of one is a very nice touch.



This is the first time I have seen a Dadao in the flesh, and I will say, this is the perfect zombie chopper.  It truly is a beast of a blade. Just look at the spine thickness.



The handle is comfortable with an oval shape, and wrapped in nice leather. The guard and pommel accent are of wrought iron (or something that looks like it) and very fitting for this piece.



I was surprised at this inclusion...some sort of propaganda poster done in fabric/vinyl and wrapped tightly inside a cardboard tube. I don't speak Chinese...so I have no clue what this says. Does anyone know what it translates into?



Next piece, the Musashi  Tomoe Katana. I was blown away by this piece. Mind you, I have only handled cheap decorative wall hangers. I cannot believe this piece was only $76 dollars. This Chinese produced Katana is very impressive for its price. The simple box came with a sword bag, and some information on the sword itself.



I find it hard to believe each and every hand forged Katana at this price point comes with its own unique certificate.



The blade is scary sharp.



The handle wrap is nice and tight. I am told by reading reviews that the wrap itself is a bit shoe lacy. It seems heads above the decorative junk that I previously owned. The ray skin is genuine and looks and feels very nice. The handle features 2 pegs.



The Tsuba is ok. I prefer a more square style, but for the price, I cannot complain.



The hamon is a thing of beauty. It is hard to photograph however, but sure looks a lot better than the fake one I had on a previous decorative Katana.



I think I will be buying a few more Musashi Katanas at a later date. I don't know how they can do this for such a low price. Quality hasn't suffered either.

Next up is a Hanwai Celtic sword. I bought this out of curiosity, and I thought the handle looked interesting.  Well I didn't pay much for it either, so I wasn't expecting much. I had read a few reviews on the Musashi Katana's and sort of knew what to expect, but with this Hanwai, I didn't have a clue.

Out of the box, it made a great first impression.



The leather sheath looks fantastic...that was until I pulled it out of the box. The sides are made of foam! I wasn't expecting much, so I wasn't surprised at the cheapness of the sheath.



Thankfully, the rest of the sheath is made of leather, and nice looking leather at that. The handle is what got my attention, and it didn't disappoint.  It isn't very historically accurate, but that is ok with me. It sure is a looker.



After being disappointed with the sheath, I wasn't expecting much of the sword inside. I was wrong. There may have been corners cut with the sheath, but the sword is solid, sharp, and a beauty.



The handle is surprisingly comfortable. The round grip does tend to make the sword want to turn in your hand somewhat. Regardless, the combination of brass accents with wood does make for a lovely presentation. The blade is razor sharp also.



Last is a Spangenhelm from a European company called Get Dressed for Battle. I also bought a wooden display stand for it. Man oh man. I must say, I was curious of the GDFB product, as it appears they make real armor for re-enactors and western martial artist. I was not disappointed with this fully wearable and serviceable Spangenhelm. The helm came lined with a chin strap.



I might have to find a few more of their pieces for display purposes. I am impressed.



Well that concludes my Christmas gift to myself. Hope you enjoyed is as much as I did typing this up.

[Chako]

Now the wall display looks a lot better. 

[Threeme2189]

Those are very nice pieces of weaponry.
But the Castile really caught my attention. That style is what I immediately think of when I visualize a sword.

Now all you need in Inigo Montoyas rapier

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

"My name is Inigo Montoya.  You killed my father.  Prepare to die."   

That Musashi looks pretty sweet.  I prefer round Tsuba, and don't generally care for ones that are cut-out designs like that, but it still looks pretty nice.  How is the samé on it?  I doubt it's real ray-skin, but is it grippy enough?  I always have trouble with the cord wrapping over the samé being too deep and preventing a good grip on the handle.

If I was seriously considering getting a usable sword though, I'd get a ninjato... much more useful for home defense and the like.

[Gareth]

Those are very nice pieces of weaponry.
But the Castile really caught my attention. That style is what I immediately think of when I visualize a sword.

Now all you need in Inigo Montoyas rapier

(Image removed from quote.)

I only know of one guy who is doing authentic reproductions of the Montoya sword, and it's not cheap.  It is however made from bronze with 24kt gold plating. 
http://www.macdonaldarms.com/armoury/MontoyaRapier.php

[Chako]

It is real ray skin.

As for the wrapping, it is very good. No play in it at all. I am thinking this is a spectacular piece for less than 80 dollars. It won't compare to a much higher priced sword...but most people online reckon their swords are worth easily a few hundred more than they sell for.

As for the Tsuba, I didn't get a good picture of it online. I just bought one to see what all the fuss was about. From this example, I can see myself adding one of their more expensive models at a later date.

I have room for one more sword on the wall hanger, and I have another floor based 8 sword rack that currently has a pair of compounds hanging off of it. I have plenty of storage to add a few more.