Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!

[mvyrmnd]

Mvyrmnd i was in Melbourne {Footscray lucky me  } Whenever you went out of a night, you took your life in your  hands. The Sudanese would attack anyone they thaught couldn't defend themself.

True, but that's why you don't go to Footscray...

Carrying a knife would make you no safer. Unless you're waving it about, they're not going to know you have it, so they'll attack you anyway. If you *are* waving it about, they'll feel threatened and attack you anyway.

If you think that having a knife handy when a bunch of thugs attack you will increase your chances of not getting the smurf kicked out of you, then you're sadly mistaken.

[mvyrmnd]

So how does this affect a multitool?  While a folding plier tool or SAK could be used as a weapon, they are not terribly ideal nor are they threatening.

Def

Both my Skeletool and Charge are OHO. The Skeletool, at first glance, appears to be just a knife, and it would take some explaining that it's a multitool. It would depend in the mood of the cop involved wether he hands you a fine for $1000

[Peter]

I would never carry a knife for self defence. My point is if the Muslims & Sudanese would stop behaving like animals, and start behaving like civilized people. We would not have such strict knife /gun laws in Australia.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I once had a discussion with Customs people about Swiss Army Knives.  I had some SAKs in my checked luggage when returning from SHOT and I told the first official that.  Not surprisingly, I was "randomly selected for additional screening" after the woman wrote "KNIVES" in big red letters on my Customs slip.  Luckily the next officer had a brain.  She asked me if I had the knives on me and I said they were in my checked luggage.  She asked what kind of knives they were and I said Swiss Army Knives.  She looked at me and asked why the other officer had made an issue of that, and I said I had no idea- it was my understanding that the inclusion of a corkscrew took something firmly out of the "weapon" category and I think she almost peed herself laughing.

It probably didn't help that I was carrying a Swiss Army laptop bag, a Swiss Army camera bag and wearing a  Swiss Army shirt- sure signs of a troublemaker!

In a lot of cases if you aren't a jackass about it cops (or other authority figures) can't be bothered with the paperwork for harassing a law abiding citizen, so if you get caught with a Skeletool, make sure you show him (or her) the pliers and the cool way the bottle opener is integrated into the carabiner- then offer to show them how well it works! 

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

I would never carry a knife for self defence. My point is if the Muslims & Sudanese would stop behaving like animals, and start behaving like civilized people. We would not have such strict knife /gun laws in Australia.

I am certain it's not just Muslims and Sudanese- we should perhaps watch these kinds of generalizations lest people get the wrong idea.

Def

[mvyrmnd]

I would never carry a knife for self defence. My point is if the Muslims & Sudanese would stop behaving like animals, and start behaving like civilized people. We would not have such strict knife /gun laws in Australia.

I am certain it's not just Muslims and Sudanese- we should perhaps watch these kinds of generalizations lest people get the wrong idea.

Def

I can guarantee it's not just Muslims and Sudanese. It's the Vietnamese, Chinese, English, Irish, Americans, South Africans, Germans, Australians, New Zealanders, Aboriginal, Pacific Islander, Yugoslavian, Outer Mongolian, etc. that go out and get trashed and stab each other in the street with the box cutter they bought for $2 at a supermarket that means that I get arrested for carrying a multitool that can be opened with one hand.

[Peter]

I am not a racist, i don't look at all muslims & think they are scum. I have met some that are normal civilized people. But if you go to certain parts of Sydney there is a very good chance that you will be stabed or shot by a muslim. I have only met a handfull of Sudanese in Melbourne and everytime it's ended in trouble. What i am saying is that if they where not so knife/gun happy we would not have these stupid laws.

[straya]

^ I would have said it was white anglo saxon people like Martin Bryant myself

[Peter]

Yep Martin Bryant, Ivan Milat, Murphy brothers so on & so on are all Australian scum that should be shot. It's a sad fact that you are going to get scum bags in every race. But some culchers are more violent as a whole than others. Most the violent culchers have a long history of violence & war. Then they immigrate to other countries and bring their attitude about violence with them.

[Gareth]

 

I would never carry a knife for self defence. My point is if the Muslims & Sudanese would stop behaving like animals, and start behaving like civilized people. We would not have such strict knife /gun laws in Australia.

I am certain it's not just Muslims and Sudanese- we should perhaps watch these kinds of generalizations lest people get the wrong idea.

Def

OK folks, lets take the hint from the boss and stop with the generalizations.  The tone of this thread has become very negative and I'm only half a step from locking it.

I'm OK with discussing the potential changes to your laws, but the finger pointing stops now.

[MirrorEdge]

I would never carry a knife for self defence. My point is if the Muslims & Sudanese would stop behaving like animals, and start behaving like civilized people. We would not have such strict knife /gun laws in Australia.

I am certain it's not just Muslims and Sudanese- we should perhaps watch these kinds of generalizations lest people get the wrong idea.

Def

OK folks, lets take the hint from the boss and stop with the generalizations.  The tone of this thread has become very negative and I'm only half a step from locking it.

I'm OK with discussing the potential changes to your laws, but the finger pointing stops now.

Go ahead and lock it    .

This un political forum , and un riligeos one .

This talking does not belong here , this is a forum about MULTITOOLs
And they are offending me , there are saying bad things about my people .

If the people didn't understand , then I'll just walk away.

[Gareth]

I would never carry a knife for self defence. My point is if the Muslims & Sudanese would stop behaving like animals, and start behaving like civilized people. We would not have such strict knife /gun laws in Australia.

I am certain it's not just Muslims and Sudanese- we should perhaps watch these kinds of generalizations lest people get the wrong idea.

Def

OK folks, lets take the hint from the boss and stop with the generalizations.  The tone of this thread has become very negative and I'm only half a step from locking it.

I'm OK with discussing the potential changes to your laws, but the finger pointing stops now.

Go ahead and lock it    .

This un political forum , and un riligeos one .

This talking does not belong here , this is a forum about MULTITOOLs
And they are offending me , there are saying bad things about my people .

If the people didn't understand , then I'll just walk away.

Thank you 3bdul3zeez, but please let the moderators do the moderating here.  People have been told to stop and let that be an end of it.  I'm still going to leave this thread open IF people stick to the original topic. 

[Peter]

3bdul3zeez i am sorry if anything i have said has offened you. I have been to Dubia for work, then went back for a vacation {motorcycles}. I did not mean that all muslims are bad, or all muslim countries are bad. I have muslim friends back in AUE & in Indonesia. I will try and reword what i was saying. Australia has a gang crime problem, thats why the knife laws have been changed. We need to fix the gang problem before it gets out of hand. For comparision i have been to America 8 times, & have American friends. America has a gang problem, a gun problem, and a drug problem. It is at the stage now where,the goverment should give every law abiding citizen a gun so they can defend themselfs. I would hate to see Australia end up in the same boat, as America {sorry to any Americans i have just offended}.We have 2 main groups that form gangs in Australia, and then get up to no good rapeing young women, stabbing, shooting, and robbing people. Political correctness can change how people live, and not in a good way.

[mvyrmnd]

3bdul3zeez i am sorry if anything i have said has offened you. I have been to Dubia for work, then went back for a vacation {motorcycles}. I did not mean that all muslims are bad, or all muslim countries are bad. I have muslim friends back in AUE & in Indonesia. I will try and reword what i was saying. Australia has a gang crime problem, thats why the knife laws have been changed. We need to fix the gang problem before it gets out of hand. For comparision i have been to America 8 times, & have American friends. America has a gang problem, a gun problem, and a drug problem. It is at the stage now where,the goverment should give every law abiding citizen a gun so they can defend themselfs. I would hate to see Australia end up in the same boat, as America {sorry to any Americans i have just offended}.We have 2 main groups that form gangs in Australia, and then get up to no good rapeing young women, stabbing, shooting, and robbing people. Political correctness can change how people live, and not in a good way.

My point was that all of that is just an excuse for the government to start banning things. Yes, there's a knife crime issue. The media hypes it up, the government bans OHO knives, the people think something it being done so they vote that government back in next time an election is on.

The fact of the matter is, most of that knife crime happens with kitchen knives and box cutters - knives that are commonly available at any supermarket. Banning a tool that many people find useful and/or aesthetically attractive is not going to fix the crime issue.

Australia is heading down the same path as the UK. They ban everything, left right and center, and their crime problems get worse by the day. Banning things does not fix the problem. Banning things gets governments re-elected.

[Peter]

I 110% agree with everything you said mvyrmnd. 3/4s of the UKs problems are alcohol related violence. I have traveled all over the world with work, & vacations, by far the worse for alcohol fuelled violence is the UK. They don't need knife laws, they need drinking laws.

[jzmtl]

AUssies need to carry politicians and beat people with it, so they'll ban themselves.

[J-sews]

Hmmmm, we're starting to slide down that slippery slope again gents. Let's leave out the generalizations about countries and nationalities, as well as the ones about race and religion please.

[J-sews]

AUssies need to carry politicians and beat people with it, so they'll ban themselves.

If that worked, I'd say we ALL ought to start doing that Jie!

[Peter]

I am not going to post in this thread anymore {i can hear the yeah from here }I am sorry for any offence i have caused that was not my intent. I was trying to talk about why knifes get banned, and what we can do about it, but it has not come across that way, to you guys. If i don't post in this thread it won't get ruined {locked} for you.

[Carlos]

Let me tell you a quick example on why this doesn't solve criminality problems. In 2006, following the european trend, the so called "weapons law" was passed here. There they define exactly what is a weapon and what should be forbidden. As an aside note then don't refer anywhere locking folders neither OHO devices. That law had virtually no impact on criminality.

Later, I think in 2007, they reformed the so called penal law, to soften a lot the conditions needed to arrest and detain people. So people started to actually let loose (i.e. wait in freedom for trial) after robbing, assaulting and so on. In two years this type of criminality rose about 20% on the average. Gas stations assaults doubled, for example, carjackings also had a boom. Ironically, most, if not all, of these crimes were committed with weapons forbidden in the 2006 law.

[mvyrmnd]

Hmmmm, we're starting to slide down that slippery slope again gents. :- Let's leave out the generalizations about countries and nationalities, as well as the ones about race and religion please.

While I understand it's poor form to argue with a mod, I'd like to make two quick points.

Knife laws are inherently a political discussion, and it's a well proven and heavily exampled fact that what the UK does, Australia inevitably does.

Watching the UK is like staring through the looking glass at our own future...

We have the same alcohol issues, the same crime issues, just 10-20 years behind on the clock.

If the Australian government were serious about stopping knife crime, they should use the UK as a model of what NOT to do, rather than mirroring their policies and creating the same issues here.

[MultiMat]

I honestly think the problem is politicians & bureaucrats. There will always be idiots that stab people & there will always be gangs. As already stated race,creed or color is not up for discussion in any thread here at MTO.


In Oz if you were being an idiot & you had any knife & the police had reason to come over & question you , having the knife could make things a lot worse, depending on how much of a idiot you were being.
In Melbourne the laws have been ramped up significantly so that you can not carry any knife in the city, I believe apprentice butchers when traveling to their trade-school have to keep their knives in a locked metal box     
I think there is a growing trend to make public knife/multitool illegal & the bans on Flippers & ? OHO is the federal govt first foray into knife control. State governments tend to govern the laws surrounding such things.

In South Oz I am comfortable carrying a MT or SAK almost anywhere as I do not tend to be an idiot in public , in priviate well that is a different matter altogether  .

I see the knife laws/restrictions as a potential world wide trend. Modern media sensationalises almost everything whilst demanding 'Tough Laws' & knives are a easy soft target. The politicians look tough they get their evening news grab & the vast majority of the public 'think' the right thing is being done. The reality is law abiding citizens loose the right to own & use their knives & the incidents of knife crime remains unchanged 



 

[mvyrmnd]

I honestly think the problem is politicians & bureaucrats. There will always be idiots that stab people & there will always be gangs. As already stated race,creed or color is not up for discussion in any thread here at MTO.


In Oz if you were being an idiot & you had any knife & the police had reason to come over & question you , having the knife could make things a lot worse, depending on how much of a idiot you were being.
In Melbourne the laws have been ramped up significantly so that you can not carry any knife in the city, I believe apprentice butchers when traveling to their trade-school have to keep their knives in a locked metal box     
I think there is a growing trend to make public knife/multitool illegal & the bans on Flippers & ? OHO is the federal govt first foray into knife control. State governments tend to govern the laws surrounding such things.

In South Oz I am comfortable carrying a MT or SAK almost anywhere as I do not tend to be an idiot in public , in priviate well that is a different matter altogether  .

I see the knife laws/restrictions as a potential world wide trend. Modern media sensationalises almost everything whilst demanding 'Tough Laws' & knives are a easy soft target. The politicians look tough they get their evening news grab & the vast majority of the public 'think' the right thing is being done. The reality is law abiding citizens loose the right to own & use their knives & the incidents of knife crime remains unchanged 

+1

Exactly.

[Syph007]

I see the knife laws/restrictions as a potential world wide trend. Modern media sensationalises almost everything whilst demanding 'Tough Laws' & knives are a easy soft target. The politicians look tough they get their evening news grab & the vast majority of the public 'think' the right thing is being done. The reality is law abiding citizens loose the right to own & use their knives & the incidents of knife crime remains unchanged 

Sad but true.  I sure hope they don't try this in Canada.  Just the same though, I think this is an excuse for me to 'stock' up on MT's and folders I want.   I've never met a Politician I would trust to feed my cat, let alone run the country... *sigh*

[grimm_kaosboy]

First off I disagree that carrying a knife for self defence is a bad idea. One just needs to look at how many people have been killed by knives and see that it is an effective tool for such. Its kinda like a self defence "multi tool". One can use a knife for cutting tasks be it cordage, opening  boxes or defending ones self from violent attacks. Is it my first choice? No my pistol would be. I live in the state of Florida where thankfully carrying a knife for the sole purpose of defence is permissable. It isnt the case in all states.
Sadly the simple and often overlooked truth is simple. Murder, attempted murder, assault and battery are already illegal. It doesnt matter to me, or any other victim how they are being assaulted or killed. Club, knife, gun, auto mobile etc... We should have an intrinsic right to defend ourselves and loved ones. By whatever means nessecary.
Putting restrictions on knives only puts the burden on those of us who are already willing to submit to the rule if law. Not criminals. Which is why they are criminals. For every politician...no. For every PERSON who thinks it will make a differencei give you this challenge...when you get off work go out and buy yourself a dime bag of weed (without a perscrption and where it is not illegal). Then tell me how outlawing something will make it "impossible" to obtain.

[mvyrmnd]

Putting restrictions on knives only puts the burden on those of us who are already willing to submit to the rule if law. Not criminals. Which is why they are criminals. For every politician...no. For every PERSON who thinks it will make a differencei give you this challenge...when you get off work go out and buy yourself a dime bag of weed (without a perscrption and where it is not illegal). Then tell me how outlawing something will make it "impossible" to obtain.

I agree with this half of your post

[Threeme2189]

...etc. that go out and get trashed and stab each other in the street with the box cutter they bought for $2 at a supermarket...

That's an interesting point.
Are OHO box cutters outlawed in Australia because of the knife regulations?

[mvyrmnd]

...etc. that go out and get trashed and stab each other in the street with the box cutter they bought for $2 at a supermarket...

That's an interesting point.
Are OHO box cutters outlawed in Australia because of the knife regulations?

Not that I'm aware of, no.

[MultiMat]

One of the Aussie based knife sellers I have bought from has had X2 deliveries go through customs since the new regulations came into being , that included OHO Spydercos  . The lack of clarity is still very much there & there is a a belief a individual importing a OHO knife may have more trouble than a business  . So it is still a case of wait & see but maybe the sky is not falling in after all   

[MultiMat]

My personal position has taken a bit of a turn for the worse as a Fischer Space .338 cartridge pen I bought from a US Ebay seller got seized by Aussie Customs a couple weeks ago & my name is now on a Customs watch list  . Pen is this one;



I apparently should of gotten a type of 'firearms' permit for my pen  . Never mind you can buy these type of pens from Australian sellers VERY easily , you need a permit to import them  . I got my one from the US as it was cheaper & the .338 pen was not available in Oz.I should of got the .375 pen that was for sale in Oz
I am only a little concerned about the extra attention I will get from Oz customs as 90% of knives/MTs I get from overseas are already opened & checked by customs . Now if they are more critical of individual's items if said individuals has 'history' I do wonder  . I had hoped to have my stupid permit from the South Australian Police Dept weeks ago but it has not showed up & in about 10 days time I will have to apply to have a extension to appeal my seizure to Australian customs  another bloody form  .
I think it is terribly ironic that a pen has landed me in strife with Oz Customs & not a knife . Bloody annoying that apparently 90% of these pens are released to people once they have their permits , I wonder if the other 10% do not bother to go through the permit rigmarole. I bet the main reason these pens get seized in the first place is so a customs agent meets their seizure 'quota' .When I mentioned too the Police dept employee about the whole thing being a monumental waste of time she agreed with me .My dumb arse permit 'should' of gotten to me last week according to the Police dept.

Bloody bureaucratic madness , Australian Customs scope of operations seems to be growing & along with them becoming the knife experts 'assisting' police when the police inspect a person's knife collections, it is worrying times. There is anecdotal evidence ,when knives are concerned, that you may get a visit from the police along with a Oz customs agent  if you complain too loudly about Oz custom's actions