How old and any info on her.

[campussecurity]

Back story my father gave me this swiss army knife when I got first class in Boy Scouts many years ago. He told me he bought it in Switzerland when he visited there back in the late 70s and he was stationed in Germany. Its a great tool and he has the massive one with everything he bought at the same time. Anyone know any details about it?

[enki_ck]

It's a Victorinox Ranger, one of my favorite 91mm SAKs. The most useful tools in a carryable package. Enjoy it.

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Ranger

You can see the Camping inlay mentioned under variations too.

[enki_ck]

As for how old, Not enought info, at least for me on that picture.

We'd need to see the tang stamps of the blade too. Also, is the corkscrew grooved or smooth, is there a parcel hook on the back,...?

[jeroen.thys.37]

age : from 1980 on (can-opener/ cap lifter)... Strange, since your father bought in in the late 70's... Please show some more pictures... 

[jazzbass]

Back story my father gave me this swiss army knife when I got first class in Boy Scouts many years ago. He told me he bought it in Switzerland when he visited there back in the late 70s and he was stationed in Germany. Its a great tool and he has the massive one with everything he bought at the same time. Anyone know any details about it?

More pictures would be better, especially of the back side tools. Looking at what you've posted, it looks like a typical late 70s/early 80s Victorinox Ranger. My guess is that the awl is solid without a sewing hole, it has a 4 turn grooved corkscrew and the old style fine screwdriver on the back. More pictures of the awl (from the side and straight on) and I can narrow the year down a bit further.

age : from 1980 on (can-opener/ cap lifter)... Strange, since your father bought in in the late 70's... Please show some more pictures... 

Not sure what you mean, but this caplifer/can opener style is typical of a knife made after 1972 until about 1985. In 85 the caplifter got a half stop, so it typically wouldn't sit at the angle shown in the picture.

[ICanFixThat]

Another element to consider is the style of the Camping inlay.

Rangers are really great knives.  Carried one for a while, and still have one in my users selection. It's tucked into one of my small bags right now I believe.

[kirk13]

Can't offer anything except to say that I have a couple of Astronaut/Master Craftsmen,basically the same,just with a Phillips,and they're great SAKs

[campussecurity]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Here's some more pictures. Sorry for the poor quality only have my phone camera.

[campussecurity]

Picture 2.

I don't know why it posted doubles and I can't seem to remove one.....

[campussecurity]

Picture 3.

[jeroen.thys.37]

age : from 1980 on (can-opener/ cap lifter)... Strange, since your father bought in in the late 70's... Please show some more pictures... 

Not sure what you mean, but this caplifer/can opener style is typical of a knife made after 1972 until about 1985. In 85 the caplifter got a half stop, so it typically wouldn't sit at the angle shown in the picture.

From 1980 on the caplifter lost his cutting edge and like you mentioned from 1985 on it got the 90 degree lock. The can opener without the "pat" marking was introduced in 1980, at least according to the "Saam's  victorinox page" 

[jazzbass]

From 1980 on the caplifter lost his cutting edge and like you mentioned from 1985 on it got the 90 degree lock. The can opener without the "pat" marking was introduced in 1980, at least according to the "Saam's  victorinox page" 

I have no idea where Saam's info comes from (1980s catalog scans that use older pictures I think), but if it's saying 1980 for both of those, it's wrong.

+PAT on the can opener and the cutting edge on the caplifter both disappeared between 1968 and 1974. +PAT disappears almost immediately after the bail does in 1968, so let's estimate 1969/1970 on that one. The cutting edge on the caplifter lasts longer - about 70% of the knives you see between 1968 and 1974 has it, the other 30% does not. So let's estimate 1972 there.

My info in this case is is based on the approx 60 or so knives in my collection from this time period + observation of hundreds of others (eBay, here, etc). None of the knives from the mid-late 1970s have the +PAT stamp or the cutting edge.

There's a lot of bad dating info out there on these knives, unfortunately. Some of it comes from speculation that turned into fact by virtue of being repeated enough. Some comes from conflicting and (sometimes) incorrect info from Victorinox themselves. It's actually the main reason I started cataloging auction info years ago - so I could track how well info about when certain tools were introduced tracked with knives that were actually out there. 80% of the time this info is correct. The other 20% are cases like this.

[GigaHz]

Jazzbass is the master bater oops master dater.   

[jeroen.thys.37]

From 1980 on the caplifter lost his cutting edge and like you mentioned from 1985 on it got the 90 degree lock. The can opener without the "pat" marking was introduced in 1980, at least according to the "Saam's  victorinox page" 

I have no idea where Saam's info comes from (1980s catalog scans that use older pictures I think), but if it's saying 1980 for both of those, it's wrong.

+PAT on the can opener and the cutting edge on the caplifter both disappeared between 1968 and 1974. +PAT disappears almost immediately after the bail does in 1968, so let's estimate 1969/1970 on that one. The cutting edge on the caplifter lasts longer - about 70% of the knives you see between 1968 and 1974 has it, the other 30% does not. So let's estimate 1972 there.

My info in this case is is based on the approx 60 or so knives in my collection from this time period + observation of hundreds of others (eBay, here, etc). None of the knives from the mid-late 1970s have the +PAT stamp or the cutting edge.

There's a lot of bad dating info out there on these knives, unfortunately. Some of it comes from speculation that turned into fact by virtue of being repeated enough. Some comes from conflicting and (sometimes) incorrect info from Victorinox themselves. It's actually the main reason I started cataloging auction info years ago - so I could track how well info about when certain tools were introduced tracked with knives that were actually out there. 80% of the time this info is correct. The other 20% are cases like this.

When I'm wrong, I'm wrong... Thanks for that information! I need to do some more research and now I know I can't rely only on Saam's page. 

[jazzbass]

When I'm wrong, I'm wrong... Thanks for that information! I need to do some more research and now I know I can't rely only on Saam's page. 

Don't feel bad, there really isn't a lot of good accurate dating info (at least until I finish my book  ). Most of what I know if from an evidence-based approach that I take - I look at lots and lots of knives, how they're made, and then try to fit that in around the info we know about dating. The starting point is the official "official" Victorinox list: http://e-webtechnologies.com/sak/Victorinox_SAK_History_Urs_Wyss_-_Updated_12_FEB_08.pdf - but even some of that is wrong.

For example, this list says that cellidor scales were introduced in 1937, 5 years before the new screwdriver with cap lifter tool in 1942. Evidence from my collection, eBay and other collectors show us that this is wrong - there are lots of fiber-scaled knives out there with cap-lifters, like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Victorinox-Swiss-Army-Knife-/271240646658?ViewItem=&item=271240646658&nma=true&si=k4USVGyo1LfUkYyNZeS9MlPD6PI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557. I have yet to see a single cellidor knife with the old style screwdriver.

This list also says the small reamer and scales with invisible rivets were introduced at the same time, a fact that observation also proves wrong - see the knife in this thread here: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,45792.0.html.

[comis]

When I'm wrong, I'm wrong... Thanks for that information! I need to do some more research and now I know I can't rely only on Saam's page. 

Don't feel bad, there really isn't a lot of good accurate dating info (at least until I finish my book  ). Most of what I know if from an evidence-based approach that I take - I look at lots and lots of knives, how they're made, and then try to fit that in around the info we know about dating. The starting point is the official "official" Victorinox list: http://e-webtechnologies.com/sak/Victorinox_SAK_History_Urs_Wyss_-_Updated_12_FEB_08.pdf - but even some of that is wrong.

For example, this list says that cellidor scales were introduced in 1937, 5 years before the new screwdriver with cap lifter tool in 1942. Evidence from my collection, eBay and other collectors show us that this is wrong - there are lots of fiber-scaled knives out there with cap-lifters, like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Victorinox-Swiss-Army-Knife-/271240646658?ViewItem=&item=271240646658&nma=true&si=k4USVGyo1LfUkYyNZeS9MlPD6PI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557. I have yet to see a single cellidor knife with the old style screwdriver.

This list also says the small reamer and scales with invisible rivets were introduced at the same time, a fact that observation also proves wrong - see the knife in this thread here: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,45792.0.html.

Jazzbass,

This might be a little off-topic, but when is the book going to be ready?!  Love to buy one and read it.  I think for hundred of years of knife making and variations, it is vital from a collector standpoint that all the variations and generations of knives are well recorded.  If managed in a well presented format with good pictures, it shall be the definitive guide to SAK collecting. 

For now, is there any book that you recommend or don't recommend for reading up the history of SAK or for SAK collecting?

[gustophersmob]

From 1980 on the caplifter lost his cutting edge and like you mentioned from 1985 on it got the 90 degree lock. The can opener without the "pat" marking was introduced in 1980, at least according to the "Saam's  victorinox page" 

I have no idea where Saam's info comes from (1980s catalog scans that use older pictures I think), but if it's saying 1980 for both of those, it's wrong.

+PAT on the can opener and the cutting edge on the caplifter both disappeared between 1968 and 1974. +PAT disappears almost immediately after the bail does in 1968, so let's estimate 1969/1970 on that one. The cutting edge on the caplifter lasts longer - about 70% of the knives you see between 1968 and 1974 has it, the other 30% does not. So let's estimate 1972 there.

My info in this case is is based on the approx 60 or so knives in my collection from this time period + observation of hundreds of others (eBay, here, etc). None of the knives from the mid-late 1970s have the +PAT stamp or the cutting edge.

There's a lot of bad dating info out there on these knives, unfortunately. Some of it comes from speculation that turned into fact by virtue of being repeated enough. Some comes from conflicting and (sometimes) incorrect info from Victorinox themselves. It's actually the main reason I started cataloging auction info years ago - so I could track how well info about when certain tools were introduced tracked with knives that were actually out there. 80% of the time this info is correct. The other 20% are cases like this.

[ignorance]

Is this just for cellidor models?  I have two '79 soldiers with the sharpened cap lifter.

[/ignorance]

[jazzbass]

This might be a little off-topic, but when is the book going to be ready?!

It will be a while - lots of research to do, plus my day job keeps me pretty busy. I'm hoping to have a draft of a chapter done soon and then maybe take a trip to Switzerland for research later this year/early next.

[ignorance]
Is this just for cellidor models?  I have two '79 soldiers with the sharpened cap lifter.
[/ignorance]

My alox knowledge isn't as good as some other guys here, but as far as I know the regular (non-Soldier) alox line kept the cutting edge until 1974 or so when the changed from the "Elinox" stamp to the "Victorinox" one. I think all "Elinox" stamped knives I've ever seen have the cutting edge. The earliest dated alox (again, non-Soldier) I've seen is from 1978, and those did NOT have the cutting edge.

For Soldiers, it's a completely different story. They kept the cutting edge until 1993.

[gustophersmob]

Thanks! 

[campussecurity]

Thanks for the info everyone. Sorry I haven't replied, I've been stuck and addicted to the leatherman forum. 

[detron]

This might be a little off-topic, but when is the book going to be ready?!

It will be a while - lots of research to do, plus my day job keeps me pretty busy. I'm hoping to have a draft of a chapter done soon and then maybe take a trip to Switzerland for research later this year/early next.

thanks for the info on when the book will be released, I am super excited, and trying REALLY hard to stay patient!  good luck on the book though.  I am sure several of us will be buying this as soon as possible!

thanks again, I love seeing you help out like this.