And so it begins.... (My adventures into Alox!)

[MultiMat]

Marlin spike + awl  that is some serious poking hardware  .

Looks nice , I do like GREEN SAKs + the brass=

[Dexter]

Stunning! Love the green color...

[Cyclone82]

This thread has left me almost speechless, i tried to read most of it. Amazing stuff, well done!!!!!!!! I actually thought of the mod to use torx screws for modding alox last year as I had never seen anyone else try it and was not a fan of non factory peening. I hunted around for some tiny torx screws but it all got a bit too hard and then never did anymore on it. I don’t know where you find all your alox knives. Every site I go to says out of stock. Maybe you have been buying them all up LOL. I think I will can my idea of doing the mods my self and just get you to make me one. So hard to decided what to get though, but if I had to choose one, it would have to be HA red scales but I would like to provide my own from a soldier.

I have some questions

1 – how is the red HA holding up? Have you tried to mark it with something? I was always put off by red scales for EDC as I would be so paranoid about marking them and really get paranoid and have to baby it.
Would a 30cm drop onto concrete mark it? I am guessing other pocket tools would not mark the HA red either? Like others here, this is the FIRST time I have ever heard of hard anodizing in anything other than black/grey and olive military colour.

2 – how are the custom back springs holding up long term? Are they as good as the vics? Not loosing tension at all?

3 – I cant really decide on brass or TI liners. Everything tells me to go TI for lighness but brass looks cool.
Whats the weight difference? I figure brass would be better as a natural bearing surface.

4 – Can you please tell me how thick a 93mm alox would be with

Saw
Pliers
Scissors
Metal/wood file
Wood saw
Main blade/awl
Inline Phillips with can opener and cap lifter doubled up on the otherside. I like this idea  best as it looked like the Phillips may have been hitting the scales in the closed position like you said.

What is the best Phillips driver to use? I have already got 2 from 2 new old style explorers with the grey magnifiying glass. Is this the longer/better Phillips? Will it work opposite the can and cap openers or do I need the new style Phillips that goes opposite the modern all clear magnifying glass?

I think that’s all the tools, how ever I am also considering another layer possibly. Even if I don’t like the thickness I could always take the saw/file layers out maybe and have some spare shorter pins on hand too.

Because of the thickness/weight, would that need a stronger/thicker key ring tab? Would same thickness in TI be fine?

Another though, would it be possible to add the 91mm back spring phillips? i realise cutting the alox would be needed if its do-able.

Anyway I will have to start collecting the parts to send to you to do it.

[Syph007]

I have some questions

For where I buy alox, always from Tim (Felinevet).  I just ordered another 10 pack of pioneers from him.  He's the best guy to buy alox from.  Knowledgeable, courteous and a nice guy.  I always check with him to see if he has the cellidor stuff I look for too, mostly compacts lately and swiss champs for donor parts.  If he doesnt have them I order from another Vic dealer I made friends with.  This guy engraves blades, so I've been able to buy up his messed up swiss champs at a bargain that had bad engraving on the blades.  The blades have no value to me for mod parts so its a nice system for me to get lots of goodies like new scissors/pliers/saws etc.

The red (and all colors) of HAIII I do hold up ridiculously well.  I dont think we'll ever see a syph pocket worn scale as it just wont happen unless you carry a pocket full of metal harder than 55 RC.  Stock anodizing (35 RC) is so fragile next to this stuff.  Half of the factory colored SAKs I break down come with the anodizing already chipping off the edges, I actually sand the sharp parts off the scales before re-andodize to avoid this possibility.  I was skeptical at first, but the guy that does the anodize for me, said that there are newer processes that let you do colors other than green and black.  He is right since I see HAIII colored flashlights and other goods now, that I didnt before.  The only damage Ive ever done to one of my scales was intentional and done with a file.  I tested a bunch of coins and dremel tools by rubbing against the scales and they have always yielded by being scratched themselves, instead of scratching the scales.

The custom backsprings should hold up fine.  I cant say that 100% obviously since ive only been selling them a few months, but they are almost exactly the same metal composition as stock Vic ones (one grade higher actually) and the same RC hardness value of 48.  I can tell you that they will not break.  I tested this by clamping one in a vice and beating it hard with a hammer.. it bent 90 degress just like a test I did with a stock vic spring (older vic springs WILL snap though), and did not break.  So its really a factor of whether it will lose tension over time, and that one is for time to tell. But it is worlds better than using other methods to get scissors on an alox frame in my opinion.

Brass works better for liners than Ti as it isnt a 'sticky' metal like Ti is.  On such a thin part weight makes little difference really.  I do have an idea in the works to solve the sticky Ti issue, but Im keeping that secret until I can prove to myself it actually works.  I could add washers to each layer, but i never liked the idea as then you get backspring gaps.

If you go above 4 layers alox, it does start to get heavy, so dont expect to pocket carry it without knowing it's there.  You want the modern shorter philips to put on this frame, better steel in that part and the older style is too long to fit with the openers in one layer.

When Im in the shop tonight I'll measure up all the tools you listed and let you know how wide that will be, but it will be pretty beefy for sure.

Cheers, and thanks for the interest!

Edit: Forgot your question about the keyring nub.  A Ti one would be strong enough yes, but for one that many layers we might want to add a nub directly to one of the springs instead, like the larger Vics do.  Ive been wanting to try that too.

[WiSAKfan]

you can use the longer phillips but it will sit on the opener and you will have to open it to open opener

or send them to me if you aren't going to use them! 

[Syph007]

Ha, this was serendipitous timing lol.  The tool I ordered just arrived at my door after my last post.



This is a carbidizer!  Sacrificial carbide rod on an engraver bascially.  This will allow me to deposit a carbide layer to any surface on Ti or steel.  The carbide is 72 RC, so it is very tough stuff. There are a few experiments I have in mind with this.

1.  Carbidize circles on my Ti liners and scales to see if that smooths up the stickiness feel of steel on Ti.

2.  Make a Ti SAK half length blade, chisel ground one side carbidized.  Why? This basically turns a weak 50 RC Ti blade into a self sharpening box cutter.  It works like a beaver tooth, the soft Ti wears away on the non carbidized side, while the hard 72 RC thin layer on the other side continually gets exposed to do the cutting.  So for tasks like box cutting, it should never dull and actually sharpen as you go.  I dont think it would be as sharp as a standard blade, but I dont really know, hence the experimenting part.

3.  I can't take credit for this idea, it was Bushidos.  But I gotta try it.  Cut Ti springs for backsprings on SAKs, and carbidize the ends where the tools would rub, so they dont stick or wear the Ti.  The springs on alox are actually a significant part of the weight, so if I made Ti ones, they would be lighter AND it lets me skip the heat treating part of working with 440c as Ti is already naturally a good spring!

Cheers!

[WiSAKfan]

NICE!!!!

number two sounds awesome and i want one already, sized like electricians blade that can fit in the small knife position!

or could you just do it do a electricians blade?  that's chisel ground already right?

[Syph007]

NICE!!!!

number two sounds awesome and i want one already, sized like electricians blade that can fit in the small knife position!

or could you just do it do a electricians blade?  that's chisel ground already right?

An electrician style blade was exactly what I had in mind!  Well without that semi circle cutout part, just a short sheepsfoot basically.  I still have to learn how to make the nail nicks, but Im getting there slowly.  Someday I hope to be a proper knife maker, making my own pocket multitools from scratch.

If things go well next week I am planning my first big tool purchase... a Sieg SX3 mill!

[lowtech]

 

[Syph007]

Yo man!  I knew eventually someone would ask for the yeoman tools in alox.  This thing looks good in red and black.  The nice part is the philips seats in just exactly where there is a little gap in the scissors where their pivot is.

I thinned the mag glass bezel all the way around with some gentle sanding and it seats well enough I think.

[Dr Gonzo]

Yo man!  I knew eventually someone would ask for the yeoman tools in alox.  This thing looks good in red and black.  The nice part is the philips seats in just exactly where there is a little gap in the scissors where their pivot is.

I thinned the mag glass bezel all the way around with some gentle sanding and it seats well enough I think.
(Image removed from quote.)

Amazing work man

I need an Alox model of yours

[WiSAKfan]

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""the nice part is the philips seats in just exactly where there is a little gap in the scissors where their pivot is. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""'

that is nice isn't it?  like it was made that way

excellent work, i see you put the inline philips layer in the middle like you suggested, looks great.

[Syph007]

Ya I think the phillips in the center makes the most sense, especially for alox. Otherwise the phillips will hit and eventually chip the scales.

[Cyclone82]

Thanks for your replies. I have stuff from Tim before, mainly hard to get SAKS but never thought to get every day common ones from him.

That’s good news on the HA red and back springs. I was looking at the stock 91mm liners and the 93mm liners and the 93mm look thinner, so although brass may be heavier, they are thinner than the 91mm and it all would sort of even out and not weigh too much more or be about the same anyway (I am guessing a little)

The weight of a 91mm craftsman is ok for me I find and I like the tools. If I could get about the same but in alox I would be real happy. I tried to do some rough calculations and I think the tools I would want would create an alox narrower than the craftsman which is just under 27mm. I was basing liner thickness measurment on 0.5mm. is this correct? if i could know the thickness of the brass liners and the alox scales i can at least work out the total thickness more accurately to decide what i want.

I specifically got the older explorers with the longer phillips as I thought that was the one to use for alox mods, but now I will just need to get the newer one.

I often wonder if the older 80’s SAKs used better steels or the newer ones. I was consiering using openers and blades from some older Soldiers I have as they are un polished tools and even thicker than regular 91mm alox tools.

Earlier in the thread, there was some concern that drilling the tools to 1/8" was a bit iffy and leaves not much metal left. Has this been confirmed as nothing to worry about now? I know one member has gone to to trouble to make 3mm pivots.

After more though, I don’t think I need to bother with trying to have a backspring 91mm phillips on a 93mm even though it’s a better driver. I just though it would be nice to have the 2.

[crackout]

You used your custom spring for the mag/phillips layer?

[Syph007]

You used your custom spring for the mag/phillips layer?

I had a spare blade spring and used that, but I think my custom one would have worked fine as well.

[Syph007]

Another marlin spike victim!  This is the second of this 100 run series I've cracked open now.. none are safe!!!  This one is turning into a 4 layer with pliers added.

[marcel.reijerse]

Another marlin spike victim!  This is the second of this 100 run series I've cracked open now.. none are safe!!!  This one is turning into a 4 layer with pliers added.

(Image removed from quote.)

Wow, that looks like my dream SAK! I received my own Marlinspike rancher yesterday, but that one looks even better.

[El Rago]

you know Syph, some would say you are sacrilegous...

[crackout]

He's a cold blooded modder, no questions asked.

[Syph007]

you know Syph, some would say you are sacrilegous...

Oh Im sure collectors would feel that way.  To me they are just parts.  Ironically I'd value a 'limited edition' one lower than normal since the blades are marked up with the special numbers.  It wouldnt be an issue if Victorinox didnt discontinue all the cool alox models. 

[El Rago]

I totaly agree Syph, I have done my share of "sacrileges" as well.

btw, doesnt the Marlin have one of the poorest tool layouts of the alox line?

I do respect your work, not only b/c the profesionality of it, but also, b/c it is ppl like you who make the alox line more useful. I never considered an alox, partly b/c of that.

now, if I only could get more money, I would line my pockets with alox, hehe.

[Syph007]

This one fought me hard but I got it together finally!  The spring force when you go this thick is very noticeable when trying to build the layers and it's not that fun.  I love how the final mod looks though, its a beauty!

[Pignut71]

Well, whilst I don't understand the popularity of the Marlin I've got to say that looks absolutely Fab!!

Another great mod Syph. One day I will make a decision what I want and ask you to build me one of your SAK's.

Atn, Jon.

[MadPlumbarian]

Nicely done as usual!  JR

[nj2656]

Like the green and brass.

[bushidomosquito]

Hey Syph. Sorry I've been offline for so long but I've been monitoring your progress without being able to sign in and I'm blown away by your progress. That trick with both openers opposite the inline phillips is pure genius. Can't believe I didn't think of that one. The marlinspike mods are pretty awesome too. Makes me want to take up fishing again just so I can use one.

Glad the springs are working out for you. I just got around to finishing up my first 2 and getting them into some long overdue 93 mods and they do seem spot on. Hopefully I'll be settled in for good this time and we can get back to having more parts cut.

[Sidhartha]

beautifull colour combination syph! a very pretty knife

[WiSAKfan]

That trick with both openers opposite the inline phillips is pure genius.

it sure is

props

[sir_mike]

Not trying to hijack the thread but can anyone point me to a current list of alox sak's that are available to purchase?

I have done alot of searching but havent uncovered any kind of current list of what is being produced.

Thx. I appreciate the help.