Finally got an old soldier ... a very old soldier :) and a book :)

[Luna Knife]

a lot of the scout/utility knife designs of 1920-1970 were obvious copies of victorinox of that era

[jcfiguet]

a lot of the scout/utility knife designs of 1920-1970 were obvious copies of victorinox of that era

Soldier's knives are not like officier's knives (with lot of bad or good copies) and it's easy to recognize a copy and a guenine soldier knife :

- 1 by the tools.
- 2 by the stamps on the blade(s).
- 3 by the "Waffenkontrole" on the scales.
- 4 by the brands referenced as official military suppliers of knives.

Victorinox (or Elsener or Victoria, or...) has not been the only supplier of Swiss Army during 125 years !

[jaydar]

Wow this is a blast from the past

A lot of soldiers in the collection since this one ..... Just missing a 1926 and a 1958 but I will get there eventually

[jcfiguet]

Do you know what were the "ancestors" of the Swiss Soldier knife before the 1890 model ?

Probably these tools made to disassemble the 1870 and 1878 Vetterli rifles of the Swiss Army :

[Steinar]

Do you know what were the "ancestors" of the Swiss Soldier knife before the 1890 model ?

Yes, pretty much identical knives sourced from Solingen. "Swiss Army Knives" were manufactured in Sheffield and Solingen long before Karl Elsener ground his first blade.

(Just a pet peeve of mine. )

[jcfiguet]

Do you know what were the "ancestors" of the Swiss Soldier knife before the 1890 model ?

Yes, pretty much identical knives sourced from Solingen. "Swiss Army Knives" were manufactured in Sheffield and Solingen long before Karl Elsener ground his first blade.

(Just a pet peeve of mine. )

For Solingen I knew, but not for Sheffield...

Do you have any photos and brands stamps of Swiss Soldier Knives made in Sheffield? I'm curious to see them !

[jaydar]

Do you know what were the "ancestors" of the Swiss Soldier knife before the 1890 model ?

Yes, pretty much identical knives sourced from Solingen. "Swiss Army Knives" were manufactured in Sheffield and Solingen long before Karl Elsener ground his first blade.

(Just a pet peeve of mine. )

For Solingen I knew, but not for Sheffield...

Do you have any photos and brands stamps of Swiss Soldier Knives made in Sheffield? I'm curious to see them !

I think he means that the Swiss army Sourced the knifes from Solingen and both Solingen and Sheffield made multi bladed pocket knifes long before the Swiss army ordered any.

But the Swiss army never ordered folding knifes from Sheffield ....As far as I know ...... although I am sure Sheffield and Solingen knifes were used by swiss soldiers and officers for many years before they were issued one

[Steinar]

What jaydar said.

[jcfiguet]

What jaydar said.

OK, I'm sorry but I'm french, so I didn't understood exactly what you wanted to say.

[jcfiguet]

This is a sample of civilian replicas of 1908 models by Victorinox :

Many civilian replicas of 'Models 1908' were born between 1903's and 1960's, some of these knives had carbon steel blades (200S models of Victorinox), other had stainless steel (200R models of Victorinox) some of these blades were stamped with the letter 'P' and the Year of manufacture (manufactured stamp) while others did not have any distinctive stamp except the manufacturer's stamp, finally some of these knives had the stamp' WK '(Waffenkontrolle) on the handle but others do not have.
We can see the civilian replicas "200R" and "200S" in the Victorinox catalogs 1903, 1942 and 1970. Wenger made also civilian replicas but I don't have the exact reference.

How to distinguish a 1908 soldier knife and a replica ? It is very simple :

A 1908 soldier knife :
- Do not have stainless steel blade, only carbon steel.
- The handle is allways stamped with a "WK" (waffencontrole)
- The blade is allways stamped with the year of manufacture between 1921 and 1950 and without year stamp between 1908 and 1920
- Sometime the blade can be MANUAL stamped with a "P" letter near the Year but this stamp must be added AFTER manufacture, never stamped with the year at the same time on a machine at the manufacture.

A civilian replica :
have allways something more or less when you compare it with a real soldier knive or/and can have stainless steel blades


As you can see on these pictures, this knife is a real 1908 soldier knife and the "P" was stamped manually after it was manufactured.

[Steinar]

Very interesting and useful, and really well preserved knives. 

[Luna Knife]

a lot of the scout/utility knife designs of 1920-1970 were obvious copies of victorinox of that era

Soldier's knives are not like officier's knives (with lot of bad or good copies) and it's easy to recognize a copy and a guenine soldier knife :

- 1 by the tools.
- 2 by the stamps on the blade(s).
- 3 by the "Waffenkontrole" on the scales.
- 4 by the brands referenced as official military suppliers of knives.

Victorinox (or Elsener or Victoria, or...) has not been the only supplier of Swiss Army during 125 years !

I have a camillus scout knife with the same tools.  They were not literally trying to make a "fake"  but I think the Camillus factory was definately inspired by the Swiss

[jcfiguet]

a lot of the scout/utility knife designs of 1920-1970 were obvious copies of victorinox of that era

Soldier's knives are not like officier's knives (with lot of bad or good copies) and it's easy to recognize a copy and a guenine soldier knife :

- 1 by the tools.
- 2 by the stamps on the blade(s).
- 3 by the "Waffenkontrole" on the scales.
- 4 by the brands referenced as official military suppliers of knives.

Victorinox (or Elsener or Victoria, or...) has not been the only supplier of Swiss Army during 125 years !

I have a camillus scout knife with the same tools.  They were not literally trying to make a "fake"  but I think the Camillus factory was definately inspired by the Swiss

Camillus knives are very good knives ! I love them but this brand is not very known in Switzerland nor in France.

Lot of other brands are inspired by Swiss knives like Aïtor (Spain), Pradel (France), Moser (Germany), Neverrost (unknown origin), etc. Generally the quality is correct or good, but the asian copies are real "fake" with poor quality or danderous to use.

[Marius]

Spotted an 1890 soldier last week and managed to grab it

its a Forges L+C Vallorbe model in rather splendid nick

Just 

And the info about old Soldiers posted here is very interesting.

 

[rmagralha]

Just to double check, this one is the one that I mentioned, it seems original, but as I´m still no expert would like a second opinion. The second photo you can see the small cross in the wood scale. thank you.

[Marius]

Just to double check, this one is the one that I mentioned, it seems original, but as I´m still no expert would like a second opinion. The second photo you can see the small cross in the wood scale. thank you.

A beauty  Can you post more pics of it? Amazing how the old solid wood scales look compared with the later fiber ones.

[rmagralha]

Will do Marius, will post the pictures here, so according to your answer is a genuine old model right?

[Marius]

I think it is genuine but I am not an expert on old Soldiers 

[jcfiguet]

Just to double check, this one is the one that I mentioned, it seems original, but as I´m still no expert would like a second opinion. The second photo you can see the small cross in the wood scale. thank you.

At first sight, this is an original model 1890, but to be totally affirmative, I must see more photos with all the tools and on both sides

[rmagralha]

Here it is

[jcfiguet]

Here it is

No problem, It's a guenine one !

For information, an Elsener - Schwytz is easy to find between $300 to $600 according to conditions of wear (like new, medium, very used).

It is one of the 'model 1890' less rare among other brands known like Wester Co - Solingen, Forges L C Vallorbe, coutellerie Suisse, Stadler - Zug, J. Pfenninger - Weztikon a/see, Solberger - Morges, Jacquet - Roche and C. Wermuth. For these brands, and for a 'model 1890' in "very good condition or like new" the price can reach $1500 in some cases.

You must know that it does not exist lot of copies of 'Model 1890', so it's easy to not be wrong, but many have been poorly repaired, making it difficult to identify. 

My analysis for your knife : this one is "medium" but nice, the Waffenkontrole is still visible and tools not broken but the main blade was many sharpened, so it should not exceed $400 to $500 in a fair sale.

[rmagralha]

Thank you very much! I think I was lucky as I paid 80 us$ really appreciate your analysis!

[jcfiguet]

Thank you very much! I think I was lucky as I paid 80 us$ really appreciate your analysis!

For $80, it's a very very good deal for you !

[jcfiguet]

Thank you very much! I think I was lucky as I paid 80 us$ really appreciate your analysis!

For $80, it's a very very good deal for you ! Congratulations !!!

[nsa-x-file]

Here it is

Wow, very nice indeed. 
An amazing find and great price.

[rmagralha]

Here it is

Wow, very nice indeed. 
An amazing find and great price.

 

[jcfiguet]

For those interested, there is now a beautiful model 1951 with red Grilon handles on Ebay.

To find it, search "WENGERINOX 1957"



Just polish the scales to make it "like new" !

[jcfiguet]

A 1901 model Elsener Echwyz restaured with only new handles and new rivets...

Very, very rare and very expensive knife !

[ducttapetech]

Oh that's  nice!

[sakwakky]