Crazy

[kamakiri]

Don't think it's worth $235. It's similar to the two-blade Grafter, but instead of the budding blade, has the clip point blade. I sure wish it was still being made.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-Army-Knife-TWO-BLADE-Floral-Pruning-100mm-RARE-COLLECTIBLE/202662303826?hash=item2f2f9d5852:g:DjkAAOSwKZtakLjl

Yeah, I don't think that's rare at all. I don't have one in that exact configuration, but I also don't want it. 

Wether separate or on the back of the budding knife, I'd rather have the bark lifter.  And I don't really consider any of the big V tangs as desirable or collectable yet.

[kamakiri]

$675 and 6 1/2 hours to go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/91-mm-Elsener-Schwyz-1920-30-model-Swiss-Army-Knife-Fiber-Scales-/264301380656

[Huntsman]

Oh boy - It's got a saw - And I can't see a WC stamp - So a civilian model I guess.

Maybe that's why the price!!

[kamakiri]

I think you're right...It's just the two main bidders that I'd call crazy on this one!

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/264301380656

[Reinier]

That's a fantastic piece!

Less crazy than a $3000 Pioneer IMHO.

[Thunderpants]

I must admit, I absolutely do not get the point of spending all that money on a grotty old museum piece. I like things I can use.

[MiniChamp]

$675 and 6 1/2 hours to go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/91-mm-Elsener-Schwyz-1920-30-model-Swiss-Army-Knife-Fiber-Scales-/264301380656

(Image removed from quote.)

Sold for $985.09. Not at all crazy (and, as we can see, the early climb to $675 was just foreplay). It seems to be a very early Elsener officer's knife (a model 237, to be more precise) with a wood saw and a "Gesetzlich Geschützt" stamp on the screw driver. If Ulli's table is correct about the range of years when the gs stamp was used and Victorinox is correct about them starting to make SAKs with wood saws in 1902, then this SAK should be precisely from 1902. One of the very first Victorinox SAKs with a wood saw. It's quite exceptional to be able to date such an old SAK so precisely. It's also quite remarkable (at least from my personal perspective) that the wood saw has 23 teeth. This is the first time that I see such a thing on a 90mm/91mm Victorinox SAK. Also, the condition appears to be excellent for a carbon steel SAK of such an age. All in all, it seems to be a real gem! Congrats to whoever won the auction.

[glenfiddich1983]

Ah dang, missed this one!

Luckily the nice eBay people found something similar for me!

[Huntsman]

Aha - It was a 90/91mm - Missed that earlier - ... even tho I pointed out no WC stamp   

So one of the earliest Officer's Knives .... Wow

Way beyond my price range .... or even my understanding !!!

I bet the seller picked it up for 10sf at a flea market!!


PS. The nice people at eBay also suggested that 'similar' item to me

[kamakiri]

Sold for $985.09. Not at all crazy (and, as we can see, the early climb to $675 was just foreplay).

Agreed. It's just those two bidders I thought were crazy thinking they'd start the bidding war a week early. I was guessing it was going to top $1k with one of those two in the mix.  I was wrong on both counts there, unless you include the $24 shipping.

Thanks for the correct history. I would have guessed higher, if I understood the history better.

[kamakiri]

Ah dang, missed this one!

Luckily the nice eBay people found something similar for me!

(Image removed from quote.)

  I hate that!

[cody6268]

$100 for an ordinary GI issue MP600?!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Army-Military-Surplus-Gerber-Multi-Tool-Survival-Bug-Out-Bag-Essential-GI/293085765469?hash=item443d45df5d%3Ag%3AvQgAAOSwos1c2B5t&LH_ItemCondition=4

[ulli]

At a first glance, two really beautiful knives...

https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/militaer-sackmesser-coutellerie-suisse-1076434654/

https://www.tutti.ch/de/vi/st-gallen/sammeln/militaer-sackmesser-modell-1890-stadler-zug-die-rarit-t/30059788?redirected

at a second glance, two fakes (my personal opinion). So anybody see why?

[cody6268]

At a first glance, two really beautiful knives...

https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/militaer-sackmesser-coutellerie-suisse-1076434654/

https://www.tutti.ch/de/vi/st-gallen/sammeln/militaer-sackmesser-modell-1890-stadler-zug-die-rarit-t/30059788?redirected

at a second glance, two fakes (my personal opinion). So anybody see why?

I didn't notice anything that could be viewed as an armorer's stamp, but that's about all I could notice.

[spudley112]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Alox-Wilderness-Black-Tool-Old-Cross-Limited-Edition-Special-Run/113707237799?hash=item1a797ac1a7:g:IuIAAOSwAWNcdDUy

Ouch.

[glenfiddich1983]

At a first glance, two really beautiful knives...

https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/militaer-sackmesser-coutellerie-suisse-1076434654/

https://www.tutti.ch/de/vi/st-gallen/sammeln/militaer-sackmesser-modell-1890-stadler-zug-die-rarit-t/30059788?redirected

at a second glance, two fakes (my personal opinion). So anybody see why?

I'm not familiar enough with these models, but regarding the second knife I can tell you that i've dealt with the seller a couple of times in the past and don't really have any reason to be suspicious about him. If I remember correctly he also does restorations on knives, maybe he did some restoration on the knife that makes you think it's fake? Although if he restored the knife he should mention it in the ad.

[glenfiddich1983]

Now here's something that kind of surprised me:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233299417680

Why did people bid that much money ($ 265) for a Safari Hunter?

The title may suggest it's a Fireman, but obviously it isn't because it doesn't have a Fireman logo on the scales. And yes it has a bail, but anyone can put a bail on a Safari Hunter (or on any knife that has a hollow rivet), that doesn't make it special.

[Huntsman]

I didn't notice anything that could be viewed as an armorer's stamp, but that's about all I could notice.

Both knives have the small Swiss cross. Very faint on the first one (first piccie)

at a second glance, two fakes (my personal opinion). So anybody see why?

If they are fakes the manufacturers have aged the metal amazingly - As GF says - Maybe restorations

I would say the rivets look like they were made by more modern machinery -  See the small ring inside?
Tang stamps? -  Or lack of ..... The wood is in too good condition?   

Go on Ulli tell us - You, of all people, should know !!

[ulli]

Both knives have the small Swiss cross. Very faint on the first one (first piccie)
 
If they are fakes the manufacturers have aged the metal amazingly - As GF says - Maybe restorations

I would say the rivets look like they were made by more modern machinery -  See the small ring inside?
Tang stamps? -  Or lack of ..... The wood is in too good condition?   

Go on Ulli tell us - You, of all people, should know !!

Its just my personal opinion, so I hope nobody feels disappointed. They both are indeed modells 1890 oder 1901, thats for sure. So not fakes in that way. The most common modells 1890 are Elsener and Wester Solingen. So one of Stadler Zug is really rare, and that means expensive. If you take a close look on the Stalder Zug you will see, that all the tools have been sharpened and polished really well. But the tang stamp of Stalder Zug looks just perfect, not to compare to an old tang stamp of Elsener Schwyz. That time (around 1900), the knife companies used specific letters for their stamps. This stamp of Stalder Zug is a modern one with modern letters. So I`m pretty sure, that this engraving was made by a modern laser engraving machine - easy to be done. Why? To increase the value. Maybe not done by this specific seller, maybe someone sold him this knife. There are many "fakes" around.

The other one from coutellerie suisse is quite easy. All I know is that they never produced the model 1890. They just startet with the model 1901. So they never made any 1890 military knives with black scales. So why are they available on the internet? There are some people around where you can send your knives in and they put new scales on them, black scales, with the cross on the scales. You just Need a modell 1901, put the brown fiber scales away, send it in for restoration and you will get it back with black scales and the military cross. Quite an easy thing to be done. But now many collectors of military knvies will think, that there are original modells 1890 from coutellerie suisse, that increases the value and the chance of "faking" and so on.

[jaydar]

Now here's something that kind of surprised me:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233299417680

Why did people bid that much money ($ 265) for a Safari Hunter?

The title may suggest it's a Fireman, but obviously it isn't because it doesn't have a Fireman logo on the scales. And yes it has a bail, but anyone can put a bail on a Safari Hunter (or on any knife that has a hollow rivet), that doesn't make it special.

I think the main point is its a fireman because of the tool set a safari hunter has a plain curved blade and a fireman has a serated curved blade the logo doesn't make it a fireman although it is nice to have.

[glenfiddich1983]

I think the main point is its a fireman because of the tool set a safari hunter has a plain curved blade and a fireman has a serated curved blade the logo doesn't make it a fireman although it is nice to have.

I always considered a Fireman to be a Hunter with fireman logo on the scale. I have seen both Hunters and Firemans with serrated blades and with non serrated blades, so apparently the serrations don’t separate the two models from each other but the logo 

[glenfiddich1983]

Serrated and non serrated Fireman

[jaydar]

(Image removed from quote.)

Serrated and non serrated Fireman

I think all firemen are serrated

A rare variation of the Hunter is the Fireman, (not to be confused with 111mm knives of the same name), that was manufactured between 1994 and 1998. It has red Nylon scales and a special Fireman's logo on the scales, the gutting-blade has a serrated edge (rescue/belt-cutter blade). The estimated production was only 2380 units. Some of these knives were produced with a bail and, according to Victorinox, did not have a unique article number. The production volume cannot be determined.
The Zurich Fireman, (an unofficial name), was reported to be a very limited run (~1000 units) of red scaled Hunter models with a bail.

The question is does the tool set define the knife or the logo

[ulli]

I m not sure if this info from sakwiki is correct or not. I have seen too many of those "zurich" fireman recently to believe that only 1000 units were produced. By the way, its quite easy to put a bail to a "normal" fireman to say its a "zurich" fireman now :-)

[sakwakky]

not sure where Ulli gets his sak history but if you take a look at this link, there was in fact a CS 1890 and it is shown to have the same tang stamp as the one listed on Ricardo

https://www.couteaux-du-soldat-suisse.ch/J01/index.php/en/cotation/cotes-modeles-1890

I agree that it looks like it might have had some work done to it at some point during its 120 year life....but I am happy to have won it for only 1155

it will look very nice along side the other examples in my collection

Dave Arnold

PS I agree with the comments on the Stadler Zug, and I would not buy anything from that seller.  Before he passed away, Stefan Schober gave me a list of sellers not to EVER trust and the seller of that Stadler Zug was 3rd on his list.

[jaydar]

I m not sure if this info from sakwiki is correct or not. I have seen too many of those "zurich" fireman recently to believe that only 1000 units were produced. By the way, its quite easy to put a bail to a "normal" fireman to say its a "zurich" fireman now :-)

100% agree but I still am not sure what hunter would want a serrated gutting blade  .... for me if it has a serrated blade its a seat belt cutter not gutting hook

[ulli]

As I said, thats my personal opinion on those models 1890. I know the site of couteau-du-soldat-suisse, but I also know that there are some mistakes on it.

I don`t blame anybody, I think most collectors are honest, and most books and webpages try to be as accurate as possible. But they share just the knowledge they know, and they try to find evidence for the hypotheses they made, and thats why they have a limited view.

[kamakiri]

So I`m pretty sure, that this engraving was made by a modern laser engraving machine - easy to be done. Why? To increase the value. Maybe not done by this specific seller, maybe someone sold him this knife. There are many "fakes" around.

Sad, but true.  I have at least a couple that I know of.  One is a blade etching that is clearly done on modern equipment...and has parts from different knives.   The other is on the tang of what I believe to be an otherwise unmarked genuine early '40s knife...   At least they weren't expensive lessons.

[glenfiddich1983]

PS I agree with the comments on the Stadler Zug, and I would not buy anything from that seller.  Before he passed away, Stefan Schober gave me a list of sellers not to EVER trust and the seller of that Stadler Zug was 3rd on his list.

May I ask if he also gave a reason for not ever trusting this seller? Because I have bought from him a couple of times without any problems.

[maxt]

May I ask if he also gave a reason for not ever trusting this seller? Because I have bought from him a couple of times without any problems.

Do you know his eBay name?