Evolution or Revolution?

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Ok, bit of a debate for you guy's now.

Do you think that the leatherman style, plier based multitool, is a logical evolution on the sak/pocket knife or do you think Tim Leatherman really came up with something revolutionary

Put another way if tim leatherman hadn't come up with the plier based multi, do you think someone else would have? Is it a logical evolution or revolution

Discuss

[NeitherExtreme]

Tough one... I'd say it wasn't just evelution.
1: the SAK had been around for quite a while, and wasn't headed toward a plier design as far as I can see.
2: SAK's seem to evolve in size and implements, not overall design. ie, they just added a small plier implement when they wanted pliers.
3: So many designs that "copy" LM's idea, such as Gerber, Buck, SOG, etc that aren't even very similar to LM design, but clearly the purpose was to build something that could function like an LM. Those companies weren't copying SAKs, they were copying LM's "new idea". (my use of the word copy here is not meant as a put-down)
That's all I can think of right now, but interesting question for sure. 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I agree with you 100%, I love Victorinox, but there not particularly innovative, Wenger are, but only because it's that's the only way they could have competed with Victorinox

I think other existing companies were similarly happy to produce sak's and pocket knives, and were blindsided by Tim Leatherman

I do feel that the plier based multi, was a brilliant example of thinking out side of the box

[Sparkey]

I voted revolution, b/c the sak was working within a "box" of being a pocketknife...If they were working on a plier design, it was within the frame of a pocketknife. Tim Leatherman decided to think outside of that box because his SAK wasn't enough for his needs...His biggest one being a decent set of pliers...But at the same time, it's part evolution because the idea of cramming a set of tools into a small compact package is what the swiss have turned into an art form...so I would view the LM/plier-based tools as distant cousins at least because I believe one could not exist without the other. Necessity is always the mother of invention, and Tim's necessity led to his invention...that's where the revolution came in. (or is it evolution? I'm confused... )

[Grant Lamontagne]

What's interesting is that the plier based multi tool existed before Leatherman, and I believe even in the butterfly opening configuration, but none had really succeeded that much, if at all.  What I wonder is how/why all of a sudden, Tim Leatherman's "invention" is suddenly taking off when numerous similar tools didn't?

Was it better marketing?  Better product?  Better implementation?  Or was the market just at the point where folks decided they needed these kinds of items?

Def

[M.TEX]

 Just like Def said...they have ben out there for long time....
 I have a plier/multitool/knife from the early 1900's ( ? )
 Barnett Tool . That's why I can say Evolution...
 and also better market. But next question is .... what's next ?
 what we are going to see 20 , 30 years from now ?
 

[NeitherExtreme]

Was it better marketing?  Better product?  Better implementation?

I would say yes, yes, and yes. Marketing was well done, he started with mail cataloges. I think the product was much better than any that had been out before. I know the basic idea had already been around years before, but I don't think that they were even close to the functionality of the PST.

[Sea Monster]

what we are going to see 20 , 30 years from now ?

Well if we knew that we could plan ahead of time, get our designs ready, and enter production a few months before the market is ready, then BAM!

LUCRE!

STINKING FILTHY LUCRE!

[Tsquare]

     It seems like the earlier multitools which predate leatherman by a century never caught on because it would seem to me that mass production of these tools would have been much harder than in modern times with punch presses and CNC machines.  If you look at the factory tour on leathermans website they put those things out by the dozens per minute.

[Sea Monster]

Earlier multis seemed to be based on a Pocket knife chassis still - much  like the Swissgrip, Toolclip, or Zilla.

[Tsquare]

     I did see one on another forums that folded down very much like the pst but it did not seem like it would have been as sturdy. 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Wow another thread back from the dead

[Sea Monster]

Wow another thread back from the dead

I've got to stop hanging out in graveyards. People are starting to talk!

Mythbusters time.

[Benner]

Nomad should change his name to "The resurrector."

[ducktapehero]

I'm pretty new here so I'm glad he brings back old threads. I wish I had time to go through the old threads and see what some of them say.

BTW, I vote revolutionary.

[Benner]

I'm pretty new here so I'm glad he brings back old threads. I wish I had time to go through the old threads and see what some of them say.

BTW, I vote revolutionary.

I like it as well.  

[mpi]

there are documented multitools dating back to roman times.  the oss/soe had multitools "escape tools" in WWII.  so it's all evoltion and re inventing the wheel.