What do you think of the Wenger RangerGrip 90?

[Smaug]

Talking about this one:


Looks like it could be awesome. I like the 1/4" hex shank bit driver feature. Can the bit be driven inline somehow, or is it only for use with the hex cut-out in the grip?

Speaking of that cut-out, I presume it is reinforced with metal somehow?

Does it come with a pouch?

How are the pliers?

Anything else I should be aware of before parting with > $100 for one? (other than it isn't pocketable)

[jzmtl]

The hex cutout extends into the steel liners, if you have a relatively new ranger you can actually see it, even though the scale doesn't have the cutout. I think it's the best combo of tools in the ranger series, just too friggin expensive.

[Mr. Whippy]

I agree with jzmtl.  It IS the best arrangement of tools in the Ranger line.  I have a Mike Horne Ranger and wish it had a saw.

I am hoping it will come down to the $90-95 range and then I'm getting one!

[ICanFixThat]

Some info in this thread: NewRanger 90

[Smaug]

Thanks for the link, ICanFixThat. I didn't think to search for just 'Ranger 90' and certainly not 'NewRanger 90.'

I've generally felt the same way about wanting scissors instead of pliers. But when I really think about it, most things I do with scissors could also be accomplished with a sharp knife, but there is no substitute for pliers.

The point about not having onboard bit storage is good too, but I think it is compensated for by the fact that it can use any bit with a 1/4" hex shank. Some people will work in occupations where they use a couple of specific bits that are not covered by Victorinox's proprietary size. Like an Allen driver of other than 4mm size.

Those needlenosed pliers look wonderful. Spring-loaded, and they appear to have a pinch-style wire cutter that will actually work for more than a week.

The video from kubwenger in the other thread is the wrong model, it is the 88, which seems to be at least one layer thicker, since it has a full length file and the bottle opener/flat head screwdriver. And two awls? 


Weaknesses:

• No scissors
• Bit driver isn't in-line; won't work in tight spaces or up against something
• Thick: bulkier than a pliers-based MT that doesn't lack of scissors or an inline bit driver, for instance.
• Expensive: more so even than the highest-priced pliers-based MT, with none of these other weaknesses. Best price I can find on this one right now is $130. Charge TTi can be had for ~$115, for example.

Strengths:

• Full size blade, with the best locking system in the business.
• Spring-loaded needlenosed pliers
• Best wood/bone saw in the business
• All tools are outside-accessible (compare to a pliers-based MT)

The price is high for a SAK, but not totally unreasonable. After all, some people pay $400+ for Chris Reeve tactical folder knives with just one blade. On the other hand, we can't really compare this one to any Victorinox, since they don't make anything comparable. The Outrider or Workchamp might be close, tool-wise, but the pliers is not in the same league, and they haven't got OHO knife blades.

I'll have to think on it. Maybe wait for a used one to pop up on fleabay.

[Syph007]

I'll add a couple of points since I have 2 newrangers.  I dont like the rubberized grip areas, mine was flaking off on 2 spots.  I will be making custom scales to solve that problem.  Nothing holds the bits in to the hex drive and its a very awkard position to actually be useful, an inline driver would let you get in more places.

I took a bunch of pics of my 78 (which I still love) but ive since swapped plain black scales for the bi-material scales.  http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,33544.msg545401.html#msg545401

[Smaug]

The more I think of it, the more I think Wenger priced themselves out of the business. Lots of folks feel Victorinox is superior. But add in the fact that they are also half as expensive, and it becomes hard to justify buying a Wenger. They truly have to have some feature that Victorinox hasn't got.

I just looked up the price on amazon for the Workchamp: $65, less than half the cost of this Wenger.

Nevertheless, I'm still thinking about it, due to the Wenger-specific differences:

• Either blade is big enough, no big deal there. Advantage: Victorinox (due to cost)
• Wenger's blade, on the other hand, is one-handed opening and closing. Advantage: Wenger
• Wenger's pliers seems thicker, but probably better performing in all respects. On the end, it has a sharper point, but doesn't lack the thicker part either. The spring is probably sturdier too.
• Either knife is too big for pocket carry, so the extra size of the Wenger becomes an advantage for the saw as well.
• The Workchamp has two sizes each of inline flathead and phillips, but the Wenger can accept any 1/4" hex bit. In general, I need either large flathead or #2 phillips the most. The Workchamp or Hercules is thick enough that the drivers being inline may not solve the problem with having to use the screwdrivers where the screws are up against something. There's still that huge grip flopping around, and the large flathead is all the way on the edge of the tool stack. That's something to think about; it may be a draw here.
• Victorinox has the superior can opener, not just for operating smoothness, but apparently it also works on bigger cans.
• Wenger has the better grip and cosmetic execution. (since the shield is not painted on, ala Victorinox)
• Victorinox has the better awl and back tool selection. However the Wenger awl can be ground to be sharp, even if it doesn't come from the box that way.
• Wenger includes a nice pouch. Consider this to make up $20 worth of the cost difference.

I guess you guys probably noticed all this stuff too. Maybe I'm typing it out for myself as much as for anyone else, hehehe. Something tells me I'll weaken and buy this by the end of the day.

[Smaug]

Syph: those are good points on the Wenger. It is good to know that the hex cutout is already in the liner, so it would just be a matter of neatly cutting a matching hole in the scale. I was thinking, do you think it would work to:

a) mark the spot on the grip where it should come through
b) heat up a 1/4" hex bit (with a 1/4" tip) on a stove burner
c) push it through the grip, thereby melting through
d) clean up the hole edges

Might look better than just a drilled hole.

Alternately, if the Rangergrip 90 or Mike Horn scales could be ordered separately...

That's also a good point about there being no retention for the hex bits. Why bother including bits with the detent, if there's nothing to retain them?    I guess they just wanted to mod the existing design, rather than spend a bunch of money in R&D to do it properly.

[Syph007]

I bet it would work if you drilled a hole first smaller than the hex size, then tried your heated hex bit idea to form the hex, then clean up.

If you are comparing the newrangers to vics trekker style OHO the wenger is far better IMO.  I bought a OHO trekker and if you are right handed the liner lock is awkward.  I returned it for that reason, and its the only vic I ever returned.  Plus the liner lock release being the wenger symbol is just cool I think.  I think my 78 will be my go to bush SAK with bigger blade and saw, and awl once I sharpen that.

[Smaug]

Syph, you've got me thinking of the Rangergrip 78 now. Or maybe a regular Ranger. (without the rubber panels)

But I realize it doesn't give me anything I haven't already got in the new Vic Soldier, except a better blade lock, slightly better saw, but worse screwdriver lock.

The trick with closing the OHO Vic blades for right handers is to use the index finger to press the liner lock, then start pushing it closed with the thumb, then move the fingers and close it the rest of the way. Not as fast or elegant as the Wenger design, for sure.

[Syph007]

I picked the 78 because it had the tools I wanted for bush use, and was thinner.  The saw is excellent.  I do like the ranger pliers but man they make the tool VERY thick adding that layer.  When I redo mine with Titanium scales Im going to use Titanium liners as well which will mean I can get the same strength with half the thickness and I think that will slim down the whole knife alot.

[theonew]

Other than the price, what I find most shocking is the weight - 9 ounces

Together my KF4 and Mora Companion weigh less than that

[sergemaster]

Amici,
I thought of picking one of these up but that was before I started encountering an issue with my 78, which is the rubber is physically flaking off the inserts. This has always been the main issue why I have always steered clear of anything labeled, kraton, dual intensity, or any other code word for a material best suited for tires.

Cheers,
Serge

[Syph007]

Amici,
I thought of picking one of these up but that was before I started encountering an issue with my 78, which is the rubber is physically flaking off the inserts. This has always been the main issue why I have always steered clear of anything labeled, kraton, dual intensity, or any other code word for a material best suited for tires.

Cheers,
Serge

Yup I hear you on that.  I wont ever buy another knife that has rubber on the scales.

[Smaug]

Well, now I'm hearing that from two of you, so I may opt for one of the older style Rangers, with the solid plastic scales and knurling toward the top.

Can the inserts be glued back in place?

I wonder if this was an early production problem that they've since fixed with better adhesives.

[Syph007]

The rubber itself breaks down and flakes off, its not a problem with the whole piece coming unglued, its the material.  I ended up buying another cheap reg black scaled rancher and took the black scales off it.  I still want to make custom alum or Ti scales in the long run though.

[jzmtl]

I've thought about cutting holes on a regular ranger, but can't think of a way to do it neatly. Also the scale feels hollow, so there's the problem of crap getting inside the scale from the cutout, since I certainly have no way to form a lip around the hole to cover the space between it and steel liners.

[Smaug]

Well, thanks for all the feedback guys.

I gave it some more thought, and decided that I will likely never need a needlenose pliers, a saw, and a locking, OHO blade all in one tool. So if I think I'll need a pliers and a saw and I don't mind carrying a big hulking tool, I'll carry my SwissTool. If I won't need the saw, and want to save some weight and bulk, I'll carry the Leatherman Juice S2 or Victorinox CyberTool 34.

So I ordered the Ranger (not RangerGrip or Newranger) 78.

http://www.wengerna.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/2/108cfa6ee607b0946f4eee39f65bd54f/image/ranger_78_sku.png

I feel the same way about it as someone mentioned earlier: it will make a good woods knife, with the big locking blade and the saw. It may also double as a self-defense weapon that is "only a Swiss Army Knife."

The easy one-handed closing was a key feature for me, the locking flathead won't hurt, and neither will the big saw.

This is close in features to my '09 Soldier, but I managed to justify the purchase to myself as such:

• Slightly larger knife. Doesn't really duplicate the Soldier
• Plain edge, very different from the Soldier
• Easier closing than the Soldier
• Easier opening (?) than the Soldier, since the blade appears to be at the edge of the stack, instead of in the middle. Maybe not though, due to a smaller deployment hole...
• Bigger saw will be slightly easier to use.
• Blade lock button doubles as a shield is elegant where as the reverse liner lock of the '09 Soldier seems like a bit of an afterthought. Or revenge on all the righties of the world by a left-handed engineer.  >:D
  
• Price was so reasonable, especially after seriously considering the $130 RangerGrip 90!  :whistle:

Now, I'm tempted to get a Workchamp too, evern though I'm pretty sure I'm not sure if I'm dedicated enough to carry it. The two inline Phillips, locking blade, and a file make it very tempting, even though there's quite a lot of overlap of my CyberTool 34. Yeah, I know. I'm weak.

[Syph007]

I think you made a good choice, that is the model I would get if I was to do it all over again.  I love mine.  The blade is in the layer closest to the scale edge and its very easy to OH deploy if you are right handed of course.

Wow the 78s are way cheaper now than when I bought mine.  I see some on ebay at very good prices.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Wenger-RANGER-78-Genuine-Swiss-Army-Knife-16311-NEW-BOX-/370607076014?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5649e732ae

[Smaug]

Mine was $42 w/free two-day shipping through Amazon. 

That Prime membership has certainly paid for iteself.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Mine was $42 w/free two-day shipping through Amazon. 

That Prime membership has certainly paid for iteself.

Here's a review I did on the Ranger EvoGrip PER 179 I got a few weeks ago.

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,36573.0.html

My first review, so take it FWIW.  It's very similar to the 78 actually, but I wanted the corkscrew instead of the phillips driver on the back. 

[Smaug]

That was an excellent review, and from reading the comments, I see that I've caved in.

Based on your review, I think I'm going to try a Workchump too.

[Mr. Whippy]

I have to say, that Ranger 78 looks like a Vic OHT on steroids.

I may have to do a little reading about it....

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

It was a difficult decision between the 179 and the 78.  I really wanted the corkscrew, because for the kinds of things I'd be using the knife for, it's a better choice.  Admittedly, I don't use it all that often, and generally only for things like pulling apart knotted cord or laces, but when those times come up, it's invaluable.  I also went with the 179 because since I already have a Work Champ, I could afford to go with a CE blade and dedicate it to heavier cutting tasks, since the WC already has a good PE blade. 

I actually carry both now in my hiking pack, as each serves a different range of needs, and I like having the redundancy of some of the tools.  I've learned the hard way, the truth of the old adage "Two is one, one is none".

[Smaug]

I have to say, that Ranger 78 looks like a Vic OHT on steroids.

I may have to do a little reading about it....

It seems like the flat screwdriver is not as beefy as that of the OHT/Soldier, but that the blade will be faster to open (because it's at the edge of the stack) and close. (because the shield is the button for the liner lock)

It seems to be less well-rounded on account of the larger size, but also more "outdoorsy" for the same reason. I'm scheduled to receive mine some time today, so I'll let you kno.

[Syph007]

I think you'll be happy with the 78.  It's a good amount of knife for the money.  If your blade seems stiff to OHO at first, it does loosen up with use. 

[Smaug]

Thanks for the tips and the enabling, Heinz and Syph.

[AimlessWanderer]

The only big Wenger I have at the moment is the Swissgrip, but the NewRanger 90 is definitely on my wishlist as a "hiking" MT, and I reckon paired with a Vic Compact or even Gerber Dime (for scissors and knife use in "public" areas) it'll handle everything I'd need outdoors without carrying great swathes of screwdrivers that I don't need

I've heard mixed results on the grippy inserts, I think there was someone on here that had problems with it flaking (but on another model), but they got sent a replacement that didn't have that problem

[Smaug]

I've heard mixed results on the grippy inserts, I think there was someone on here that had problems with it flaking (but on another model), but they got sent a replacement that didn't have that problem

Yeah, a couple of the guys here scared me. I just got an EvoGrip S16 a couple weeks ago, and now I read about the rubber not holding up on the RangerGrip models. I presume it is the same rubber, so I probably should've gotten an Evo instead of an EvoGrip. Oh well. We'll see what happens. I presume Wenger would make it right if it flaked off; it's just a matter of sending it into them. They're probably aware of it already and have probably started using better rubber now. (I hope!)

[Mr. Whippy]

I've heard mixed results on the grippy inserts, I think there was someone on here that had problems with it flaking (but on another model), but they got sent a replacement that didn't have that problem

Yeah, a couple of the guys here scared me. I just got an EvoGrip S16 a couple weeks ago, and now I read about the rubber not holding up on the RangerGrip models. I presume it is the same rubber, so I probably should've gotten an Evo instead of an EvoGrip. Oh well. We'll see what happens. I presume Wenger would make it right if it flaked off; it's just a matter of sending it into them. They're probably aware of it already and have probably started using better rubber now. (I hope!)

I torqued out a corkscrew on a Wenger.  Wenger NA was extremely easy to deal with and made it right with virtually no hassle.  If it flakes, I bet they'll take care of it with no hassle.