Sick addiction, and I blame you

[theonew]

OK, I've disassembled every appliance in my apartment, removed the dashboard from my car, removed all fixtures and conduit in the lobby and basement of my building and haven't found a phillips screw that can't be removed with the inline driver

Seriously though, I did try a wide variety of screws and it worked on them all, even the tiny screws on the back of a laptop. Lynn, I think you may have a malformed driver on your old explorer

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I would agree that for a serious EDC, the Cybertool driver is tough to beat.  Since it has a detent at 90 degrees, it can generate SERIOUS torque when needed.  It' is the best development in the VIctorinox line up (IMO).

Yep, I completely agree.  I'm kicking myself that it took me so long to figure out though!

In a thread in the Modding forum, GigaHz posted a pic of a Compact he'd added a CT layer to; I'll repost it here for everyone's benefit.  As soon as I get the parts, I'm planning on getting the mod done so I'll have one just like it.

He also posted a pic of another CT mod he did, that's very cool and of similar design.

Here's the Compact with CT layer:


And the CT34 mod... He took out the can opener / bottle opener layer, and replaced the small blade with the combo tool from a Compact.

[jerseydevil]

EDIT: Also... white Deluxe Tinker spotted on Felinevet's store. Soo... tempting... 

The Deluxe is a great knife.  If you don't really need full size pliers, those little ones work well.  I've used mine a lot as my only tool.  Another knife in the same vein is the Wenger S557.  The Wenger pliers work off the backspring like their scissors.  Another plus, Lynn, is that there would be another scissor type and can opener type for you to test!  See?  It's all in the name of research.  You need a Wenger. 

[Syph007]

It' is the best development in the VIctorinox line up (IMO).

I completely agree that its very handy addition, as I do use my cybertool driver alot.  That being said, its the lowest quality component I've ever seen on a Vic tool.  The steel is horrible and actually tarnishes easily.  The plastic bit holder in mine that is only a month or so old no longer keeps the bits in properly either, they fall out whenever I open it.  Fit and finish is awful, but I still find it useful.   

Having access to modding tools I can and will upgrade this to be higher quality and get rid of the plastic retainer and make a proper metal one.  I give it a 9/10 for functionality and a 2/10 for quality.  It's horrible.  You can even see the weld marks in the back of the CT driver. It doesn't polish up like regular vic steel either. Honestly to me it doesn't match the quality of the other tools made by victorinox at all, and it looks like something that was outsourced in china, or at least made with low cost first and quality last. 

I guess you can say I have a love/hate relationship with the CT layer, but I still want to put one on an alox SAK...

[Smaug]

Lynn, I'm so happy that I was right and that whathisname hooked you properly. I suspected as much, if you'll recall. 

Now, about that inline Phillips. It's obvious to most of us know that you:

a) Have a defective or damaged driver,
b) Are trying to use it on the wrong size screws, like #3 or #1, or
c) Are the only one who isn't crazy   

If you're thinking about a Deluxe Tinker, but don't like the Victorinox inline driver, you might consider the CyberTool 34. It is basically a Deluxe Tinker, but with a corkscrew (also useful for untying knots) on the back and the Cyber Driver added to the front.

No, it is not a standard 1/4" hex drive; it is proprietary. But it includes a 4mm allen, #s 0, 1, and 2 Phillips, and a medium flat head that is right between the flat head on the can and bottle openers. I've read that SwissBianco sells/sold other bits, but I haven't seen or tried them firsthand.

But yes, you're hooked. Once you begin the pursuit of The Perfect EDC or The Perfect Combination of Tools, you know you're screwed. Because there is no such animal.

The Explorer has a nice set of tools. But it is 4 layers thick, which is too thick for pocket carry for most of us. Ditto for the Deluxe Tinker. If you're willing to belt carry, then why limit yourself to 4 layers? Go hog wild and get yourself a Workchump, Swisschump, etc.

After you get that, you'll probably go into your minimalist phase.

Then, the ultra-minimalist phase, and start looking at 58mm SAKs seriously.

Keep us posted.

[Lynn LeFey]

In all honesty, I 'purse-carry', with a reasonable weight limit for tools around the 1 pound mark.

So, right now in my purse I've got a SOG Crosscut, Sheffield mini multitool, Leatherman Wave and Tinker. I off-and-on carry a Spiderco Delica. Right now, the Wave is holding OHO blade duty.

I have to say that the Explorer is about as thick as is comfortable in-hand. Beyond that, I'd rather split it into multiple tools. not much of a weight difference, and I think there's a fair chance of it actually being cheaper. Added layers on SAKs seem to drive up price on an upward curve.

If I weren't searching for a perfect EDC, I wouldn't be in the SAK forum at all. The Crosscut and Sheffield meet all my tool needs.

Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that the phillips on my Explorer is defective. It's just more than a little hard to convince myself that I managed to get the only known defective driver among everyone and people are saying 'go buy another one', when I'm thinking 'the first one was a POS and FREE. Why do I want to pay for one again?' But to be fair, part of why it was free was that the original owner hated the Explorer, partly due to the phillips... so... catch 22...

Now, on a completely different topic... glowing yellow scales: Cool or suck? I'm strangely drawn to them on the Climber...

[Mr. Whippy]

The Wenger yellow scales are completely 

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I agree with Syph that the driver part of the CT layer doesn't seem as well made as the rest of the tools in a CT.  The driver in my 125th 34 has a pronounced bow in it, which I assume is from heat treating.  Perhaps it's just me being picky, but I really would prefer it be nice and straight.

Jeremy, I don't think the bit size on the CTs is proprietary; there are a lot of Wiha tools that also use the 4 mm bit size as well.  Usually though they use a magnetic retention system instead of the little embedded ball bearing.  Here's a great little Wiha driver and bits that I got for my wife for her computer repair toolkit.

http://www.amazon.com/Wiha-75093-Handles-Slotted-Phillips/dp/B002PJ3IYE/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_T1?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3K5XWQICZNOMQ&colid=3PONN6QRWJRIO

I haven't actually tried to put any of the bits from it into a CT driver, but the only issue I'd think there would be is the Wiha bits actually staying in the CT driver.

Of course, this gives me another idea now... magnetize the end of the CT driver! 

[GigaHz]

It' is the best development in the VIctorinox line up (IMO).

I completely agree that its very handy addition, as I do use my cybertool driver alot.  That being said, its the lowest quality component I've ever seen on a Vic tool.  The steel is horrible and actually tarnishes easily.  The plastic bit holder in mine that is only a month or so old no longer keeps the bits in properly either, they fall out whenever I open it.  Fit and finish is awful, but I still find it useful.   

Having access to modding tools I can and will upgrade this to be higher quality and get rid of the plastic retainer and make a proper metal one.  I give it a 9/10 for functionality and a 2/10 for quality.  It's horrible.  You can even see the weld marks in the back of the CT driver. It doesn't polish up like regular vic steel either. Honestly to me it doesn't match the quality of the other tools made by victorinox at all, and it looks like something that was outsourced in china, or at least made with low cost first and quality last. 

I guess you can say I have a love/hate relationship with the CT layer, but I still want to put one on an alox SAK...

I think the CT driver is cast, where all the other pieces are stamped. Also if the little ball on the bits face the sides of the holder they stay in better. The steel is different. I doesn't polish up the same. I think all the CT drivers have the bow so they conform to the curve of the knife.

[Syph007]

It' is the best development in the VIctorinox line up (IMO).

I completely agree that its very handy addition, as I do use my cybertool driver alot.  That being said, its the lowest quality component I've ever seen on a Vic tool.  The steel is horrible and actually tarnishes easily.  The plastic bit holder in mine that is only a month or so old no longer keeps the bits in properly either, they fall out whenever I open it.  Fit and finish is awful, but I still find it useful.   

Having access to modding tools I can and will upgrade this to be higher quality and get rid of the plastic retainer and make a proper metal one.  I give it a 9/10 for functionality and a 2/10 for quality.  It's horrible.  You can even see the weld marks in the back of the CT driver. It doesn't polish up like regular vic steel either. Honestly to me it doesn't match the quality of the other tools made by victorinox at all, and it looks like something that was outsourced in china, or at least made with low cost first and quality last. 

I guess you can say I have a love/hate relationship with the CT layer, but I still want to put one on an alox SAK...

I think the CT driver is cast, where all the other pieces are stamped. Also if the little ball on the bits face the sides of the holder they stay in better. The steel is different. I doesn't polish up the same. I think all the CT drivers have the bow so they conform to the curve of the knife.

Hmmm I never checked for a bow, now I gotta go look at mine.

[GigaHz]

Maybe it is not bowed. It might just looked bowed as the end is rounded into the knife.

[airballrad]

Yikes, I just recommended this place for (plier-based) multitools. 

I didn't realize you weren't going to properly protect yourself against dangerous SAKs... 

[Ashley]

Alox farmers you say? I could never have enough. I have more that not photo yet.




Sent from Ash forum mobile

[Lynn LeFey]

Isn't your avatar a pic of those knives forming Voltron?

Maybe I shouldn't show my nerd level by saying that...

[Smaug]

I don't have any interest in collecting, but I like the idea of having the best toolset for the least weight, and SAKs might meet that. I fear there may be modding involved though... which is a whole new avenue for my crazy.

^ Relentless pursuit of perfection. No need in trying to justify it with practicality at this point.

I am most definitely not a collector, despite that my SAK holdings expanded by one today, a Wenger EvoGrip 81, bought specifically to go into my EDC first aid kit.

^ "I am not a collector, even though I just got another one. But it has a HOME, so it isn't collecting!" 

I too am searching for the perfect SAK for EDC.  I've come to the conclusion there isn't ONE, and that it will have to be two, and further, both need to be mods.

^ Relentless pursuit of perfection = collecting.

First, is for regular, all the time, pocket carry.

...this one has a home. So it isn't collecting. 

Second is for carry in my EDC bag.

^ also has a home. So not collecting. 

I am sincerely hoping those two will meet all my needs on a day to day basis.

No you're not. But it isn't intentional. You're just in denial. That's the first stage, right?

I'm not including things like going on family camping trips, or other forms of non-regular outdoor recreation though...  I already have a couple of SAKs for that! 

^ Leaving the back door open for more coll.... er acquisitions.

...in hopes you might find some light at the end of the SAK EDC tunnel. 
...
In all honesty, I'm sure I'll probably end up buying another one after I get these....

...and now, not only is the back door open, but all the windows too. 

If you don't want to be a collector of some sort, then this is the wrong place to be. You may as well just admit that you're going to end up with a collection, even if you're not a collector. Wait, what?. > You're already a collector, you're only justifying it by telling yourself you're a practical collector. This is probably actually worse than the guys who collect traditional or tactical knives, because at least they are not denying that they only "need" one, and they just WANT more.

OK, I'll shut up for now, so you can maintain the illusion of "not collecting." 

[Smaug]

I agree with Syph that the driver part of the CT layer doesn't seem as well made as the rest of the tools in a CT.  The driver in my 125th 34 has a pronounced bow in it, which I assume is from heat treating.  Perhaps it's just me being picky, but I really would prefer it be nice and straight.

I have to agree with GigaHz here. It is intentional. Parts don't come from Victorinox bowed. Except for Lynn's Phillips, that is. 

Jeremy, I don't think the bit size on the CTs is proprietary; there are a lot of Wiha tools that also use the 4 mm bit size as well.  Usually though they use a magnetic retention system instead of the little embedded ball bearing.

I guess 'proprietary' was the wrong word. The Wiha bits are shorter, and magnetically retained, so they wouldn't work in a CT. They'd fall out, even if they were long enough, because the Vic bits have the spring-loaded ball bearing, which ironically retains them with friction. Aside from that, the short-ness of the bits would let them sink right into the CT driver, I think.

  Here's a great little Wiha driver and bits that I got for my wife for her computer repair toolkit.

That's pretty neat. I've got a Wiha kit in which the bits and driver are in a neat little plastic case, but it isn't self-contained like that.

[Smaug]

In a thread in the Modding forum, GigaHz posted a pic of a Compact he'd added a CT layer to; I'll repost it here for everyone's benefit.

That's pretty slick. But the combo tool has not been the silver bullet for me like it is for others. I feel it does a reasonable job of combining the can and bottle openers, but a POOR job of the screwdriver tips. The tip on the combo tool is narrower than that of the bottle opener, and wider than that of the can opener. It is also further forward on the tool, so it is much more likely to close during use than the one on the bottle opener. Since it's smaller, it doesn't fit the larger screw heads properly either.

I guess this all comes down to how much trouble we're willing to go to just to have The Right Tool on our person. Some are willing to carry a more substantial tool, so that the right one is always on his person.

Others are willing to carry multiples, stashed all over the place toward that same end. For example, your system of one for pocket carry, then one each in bags all over the place.

Here's what I've been packing lately. I'm almost embarassed to admit the quantity, now that I see how they add up:

• Rambler, on keychain
• CyberTool 34, in my shoulder bag I carry to work. If I'm going down to the lab to work, I'll clip this on my belt.
• Recruit in my shoulder bag, along with The Little Book of Whittling, and a couple of cut-off branches. This is my whittling set.
• Leatherman Micra in my shoulder bag. This one, I can't bear to keychain carry. It is just too heavy. And the blade sucks too badly that I feel comfortable making it my pocket carry. So it might as well live permanently in my bag, in case I'm rotating the others out and forget to pack something.

So that's 4 I'm carrying lately. It's out of hand, and I didn't even realize it. I may as well throw a big tactical folder in there too and call it a day.

Yep, I'm a collector and somewhat of a prepper. I guess it's time to go ahead and admit it. I said "somewhat" because I don't have a first aid kit, fire-making supplies, compass, and that sort of thing. I don't really need that wilderness junk, but I guess a first aid kit could really be handy. I'd better get on that.

Trying to wrap up here, I see that the "Rambler" is really an appropriate knife for me, hehehe.

[Ashley]

Isn't your avatar a pic of those knives forming Voltron?

Maybe I shouldn't show my nerd level by saying that...

What's that?

Sent from Ash forum mobile

[Smaug]

She's too young to remember Voltron, Lynn. Young 'uns!

Remember the opening credits, where the commentator explains the background? That was the same voice actor who did Optimus Prime, from the original The Transformers cartoon.

[Lynn LeFey]

'What's that?'

Well... That's THIS!


The short version... 5 different colored giant robot lions come together to form one giant robot guy. It was one of those things that as a kid you think is AWESOME, but later come to find terrible. I call this phenomenon the 'Flintstone Threshold'. It's the opposite of nostalgia.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Jeremy, you're not a psychoanalyst, are you?   

Okay, I'll admit to being a practical collector...  I hate it when I've got a tool that doesn't have a home somewhere where it's waiting to be used when needed.  I tend to repurpose my old tools/knives that way actually.  I put my Crunch in my dedicated tool kit on my bike; as cool an MT as it is, that's the best place for it.  Same thing with a couple of my older torches and knives; they now live in the glove box of my wife's mom-mobile. 

I've actually taken to carrying three of my SAKs now, perhaps partly to maintain my denial!    My Executive on my keychain, my Compact in my pocket, and my Outrider in my EDC bag.  (Although today I've got my Work Champ in its place instead.)

I realize the combo tool is a compromise, but of course, most everything about SAKs and MT is a compromise anyway.  I can't remember the last time I actually opened a can with anything other than a dedicated can opener, so it's not a big deal to me.  I use it as a bottle opener more often than not anyway.  The CT layer is for me the best choice because 98% of the fasteners I deal with day to day are small phillips, flat, and torx screws.   4 mm hex is also a very common size on bicycle parts as well.  For me, sacrificing the opener layer for the combo tool is an acceptable trade off for the functionality the CT layer provides.  I should be getting the CT parts next week, so now all I have to do is get the modding set up.  Once I've got that done, then I'll get a new Explorer and the pliers layer; I'm considering doing that one myself, but I'll wait and see.