Been out tire kicking again....

[Beerplumber]

For maximum off road ability you should get a full locking diff as the limited one, from what I remember, needs both wheels to have a bit of traction to work. If one of the two loses all traction (up in the air) then it will just spin leaving the other one stuck and not moving.
As I said it has been a few years since I read Fourwheeler magazine, but that is what I remember. The 4WDs I have as far as I know run normal differentials.

Also remember that: “The better the 4WD the further away from home you will get stuck”

This is true for most LSD's but Jeep's system compensates. The traction control applies brake to the wheel with the least traction which sends power to the wheel with traction. It works very well in my experience. However running in four low disables the traction control feature but still works like an LSD. lockers are great but most are air actuated so on-board air needs to be factored into the cost. From what I understand the Rubi is the only one with lockers the sport and Sahara both have the LSD.

Pretty sure you'll be pleased with the pentastar Def. the auto is also the way to go in my opinion. It will have the gear selector built in. Very handy.


Keep calm and jeep on

[dks]

And get some decent tyres too... With decent tyres on a good off-roader, even a Jeep , you will barely need to go to 4WD.... though it will be fun

[Grant Lamontagne]

I believe I am getting BF Goodrich A/T's on it.  I have requested off road tires but we'll see what the factory actually does.  I've already been thinking about jumping up to 33" tires, which will fit without a lift, so if I don't get the tires I want I'll just swap them out for bigger ones a bit sooner.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

[Beerplumber]

I believe I am getting BF Goodrich A/T's on it.  I have requested off road tires but we'll see what the factory actually does.  I've already been thinking about jumping up to 33" tires, which will fit without a lift, so if I don't get the tires I want I'll just swap them out for bigger ones a bit sooner.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

thats my next plan too. Was looking at the BFG KM2's but will likely do the A/T's. I'm still on the stock 32" tires but was really impressed how well they work on 20psi. We went on a 18 rig run for New Year's Eve. My rig is looking a lot different these days. Not in pic but the Smittybilt SCR side armour is probably my favourite mod so far.

Can't wait to see yours Grant! You're going to love it!


Keep calm and jeep on

[Grant Lamontagne]

Nice.  My boss stopped by to pick up a few things for a job he was doing today and he brought his rig.  He's got a black 2012 Sahara Unlimited with a 4" lift, 35" Mickey Thompsons and Rugged Ridge front & rear bumpers complete with a Hi-Lift mount, spare tire carrier and storage compartments in the front one.



He's pestering me to get a lift, but if I do it'll probably only be a 2-3" lift.  I'm of the mind that a good winch will help you a lot more than a big lift.  Of course if I do lift it I'll probably jump up to 35" tires as well.

Def

[dks]

I am not really convinced on lifts and big tyres, as they just seem to make the car more easy to roll over, slow it down and increase fuel consumption and noise. You may have to change the gearing and even change the engine in small engine 4WDs; but they look good.

On short wheelbase vehicles I do not see them adding that much, if any, off-road ability. Some of the areas I drive though you can barely squeeze through with normal height and width vehicles anyway.
If you see farmer’s and army vehicles they tend to be basic, standard 4WDs.
Sort of like BO tools, more to do with looks than performance. Maybe if I was racing and needed a speSmurfpillsed vehicle just for that.

On tyres I was a big fun of the Bridgestone Dueller range (they have several) but a few months ago when I was having some major work done to a car and was also considering replacing it I agreed with the mechanic and had 4 Wide Conqueror sonar tyres made by Nanknag. These tyres were not known to me, though their products have gained quite a good reputation around here lately.

I have been very suspicious of Chinese tyres for many years and generally stick to known brands but I was told that these were decent off-road tyres and cost a 3rd of what I would have paid for “branded” tyres. (I have some cheaper tyres on a car that does 10 km per year but Michelins, Bridgestones  and Firestones etc on the rest)
So far, 6 months, I am pretty impressed. They are surprisingly quiet and grippy on the road, though that was not my main priority, and impressive off road, to the point that I can now go up things in 2WD, whereas before I needed 4WD. I have used them on dry earthy bunks, rocky climbs, mud and snow and they seem to be exceeding my expectations. Drove up a muddy, clay, steep and eroded “road” a week ago and expected the car to be sliding around like crazy, but it just felt like I was going up a proper, dry road. I expected my passengers to start complaining about me being stupid but they did not even notice how bad the road was. I have no idea about longevity but I think the Chinese tyres are really coming of age.
Makes me wonder why I have been paying so much more for all this years.  

pic added:

[Grant Lamontagne]

A 2-3" lift on a Jeep is really nothing serious- in fact, you can get a 3" lift from the factory on certain models of Jeep like the Moab edition.  Chances are I won't lift it, but I think I will go to 33" tires as I think they look nicer.  The change in handling won't be significant.

I don't know if that brand is available around here.  I've never heard of it before, but I'll keep an eye out for them.  I'd really like to spend less on good tires if at all possible...

Def

[Mr. Whippy]

Chinese motorcycle tires have a significant history of separation problems.  Needless to say, they have an iffy reputation.

That said, it really depends on who is spec'ing the tire.  If Michelin decides it's going with a Chinese manufacturer, I guarantee those tires will be up to snuff of any Michelin.

I really think quality of Chinese manufacturers is related to who is setting up the spec.  When done correctly, I think Chinese products are well made.

[jzmtl]

Bah, screw AT, get this. Just look at it, isn't it better looking? 



I think 32" or 33" is about the biggest that looks good on a 2 door, anything bigger it looks like bigfoot. You may be able to manage 35" on 4 door, but I don't have one to can't say.

The lower end models used to come with 29", now that looks ridiculous.

[dks]

Not an expert, but the vibe is that several of the bigger tyre manufacturers operate factories in China, bringing out middle of the range products (i.e. technology from a couple of years ago) for cheaper, whilst not "soiling" their major brand names by associating them with these cheaper products.

[nuphoria]

I learnt something yesterday... no doubt many of you know this.

The word Jeep came from the critter in Popeye cartoons that could go anywhere, hence it being used as a nickname for the army vehicles.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Not quite. That came after.  The Jeep name came from typical military habits of "reading" acronyms- in this case GP or General Purpose vehicle.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

[nuphoria]

Not quite. That came after.  The Jeep name came from typical military habits of "reading" acronyms- in this case GP or General Purpose vehicle.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

Ah see, I read it was the other way round! Could easily be wrong of course

[Mr. Whippy]

I thought around the time of WWII, both Ford and Willys were in the hunt for the military contract for the GP vehicle.  Willys won the lion's share, but apparently there are some Ford's of that vintage.

Of course Willys-Overland joined American Motors sometime in the 60's (I think).  Split up and sold to Chrysler and a chunk split off as AM General.

Chrysler still owns the Jeep name, but AM General was swallowed by GM (AM General were the guys who developed the HumVee).

That's about all I know about the Jeep.  Other than I loved my Jeep Gladiator pickup.  Until it borked its motor. 

[jerseydevil]

I thought around the time of WWII, both Ford and Willys were in the hunt for the military contract for the GP vehicle.  Willys won the lion's share, but apparently there are some Ford's of that vintage.

Actually, the original Jeep was designed by American Bantam.  They won the competition, but they didn't have the manufacturing capabilities the gov't needed.  There was also some concern about Bantam's financial situation.  The Army invited both Willys and Ford to bid on production, and they obviously beat out Bantam for the contract.  If you look in my military vehicle show thread, most of the Jeeps there were Fords.

[Mr. Whippy]

I thought around the time of WWII, both Ford and Willys were in the hunt for the military contract for the GP vehicle.  Willys won the lion's share, but apparently there are some Ford's of that vintage.

Actually, the original Jeep was designed by American Bantam.  They won the competition, but they didn't have the manufacturing capabilities the gov't needed.  There was also some concern about Bantam's financial situation.  The Army invited both Willys and Ford to bid on production, and they obviously beat out Bantam for the contract.  If you look in my military vehicle show thread, most of the Jeeps there were Fords.

How close were they to the old Ford Broncos?  (Which were the first vehicles advertised as "sport utility vehicles, btw).

[Grant Lamontagne]

I believe the Ford version was called the MUTT and it was also coincidentally manufactured in short numbers by AM General.

For some reason the Willy's version was more popular and GI's returning from WWII liked them so much they tried to buy them when they returned to the US.  Military vehicles at the time (this might still be the case) could only be sold for scrap, so the military ones were all cut in half so they were mostly unavailable.  Given the demand for them Willys Overland started making a Civilian Jeep, or what we more commonly refer to as the CJ, which is eventually what became the Wrangler series.

When Chrysler bought out AMC in the mid 80's ('86 I believe) it was specifically to get the rights to the Jeep brand and it's trademark 7 slat grille.  AM General, an offshoot of AMC that wasn't included in the sale continued to make vehicles for government and fleet needs but became famous again with the Gulf War and the HMMWV which became more commonly known as the HUMVEE or just Hummer.  Coincidentally, the Hummer also carries the trademark 7 slat grille, which AM General still had the legal right to do- I imagine that really upset the folks at Chrysler since someone else was using "their" trademark, and especially when GMC bought the rights to produce civilian Hummers from AM General.  The original version (both military and civilian trims) was renamed the H1 and GM introduced the H2 which was basically an upgraded Suburban model stylized to look like the original. 

Meanwhile Chrysler, with their newly acquired Jeep brand made what was to be one of the biggest mistakes they ever made.  They instantly decided to redesign and rebrand the Jeep line as a real Chrysler and differentiate it from the "other" Jeeps.  They changed the suspension swapped out the universally recognized round headlights for rectangular ones and renamed it the YJ (Youth Jeep), hoping to catch on with the people who believed that youth was everything, especially now that these people were in their 20's and 30's and had money top buy them.  Remember the anthems "Flaming Youth" by KISS and the infamous Who lyric "Hope I die before I get old?"

While some folks really liked the YJ, the term "square headlights" is often used derogatorily among jeep enthusiasts and is generally considered to be Jeep's dark ages.  In the early to mid 90's Chrysler realized this and completely redesigned the Jeep again to be a more updated truck and yet still be more reminiscent of the old CJ's and the TJ was born in '94 (I think).  It went through some changes through it's lifespan as well, but the TJ was almost universally loved by Jeep people everywhere. 

When the next set of design changes came in 2007 and the TJ was changed to the JK, folks were concerned since the trusty old 4L inline 6 cylinder engine that was developed off the old inline 256cc engine that powered Jeeps since before Korea was replaced with a 3.8L that had been pushing Dodge Caravans around for a few years.  Jeep owners were very much against the 3.8L (myself included) because it was a "minivan engine" and despite being a decent engine, just seemed wrong.  After all, Jeeps were all about freedom, while minivans represented shackles and conformity.

The 3.8L only lasted a few years and was actually somewhat problematic for some folks.  Like a new Microsoft operating system, when one person has a problem, everyone thinks they have it and soon the problem takes on a life of it's own.  In 2011 the 3.8 was taken out of Jeeps and replaced with the Pentastar 3.6L V6 which produces something like 85hp more than the 3.8L did, and Jeep owners were once again placated.

There you go- everything you ever didn't care about Jeeps explained in detail! 

Def

[Mr. Whippy]

I liked the old Scramblers too.  (LOVE the old Jeep pickups).  Jeep should make those again.

[Grant Lamontagne]

They offer a kit for converting a current model to a pickup.



The drawback is you are spending a minimum of $20k on the truck and an additional $6k on the kit itself.  There are a lot of small pickups on the market in that price range that don't require extensive assembly.

Def

[Whoey]

saw a Moke on the UK car fixup show Wheeler Dealers the other day... looks like the bizarre love child of a Jeep, VW Buggy and a Mini...



 

[dks]

Ah the mini Moke... the tourists best friend for many years..    that and the VW beach buggy.

They are just minis with a different body on top I think.

Having never owned a Jeep I think it is sad to admit that I actually knew a large part of its history.. 

[Threeme2189]

I learnt something yesterday... no doubt many of you know this.

The word Jeep came from the critter in Popeye cartoons that could go anywhere, hence it being used as a nickname for the army vehicles.

(Image removed from quote.)

Cracked.com?

[jzmtl]

Chrysler actually did sue AM general over the grill design, but lost.

Hummer is specifically the civilian version, I believe the story goes that Arnold saw the military version and wants one, so he bugged AM general into making a civilian version which is known as Hummer H1.

[Grant Lamontagne]

That is the story I heard as well, and it is backed up in Arnold's book.  According to the Terminator, AM General resisted the idea of a civilian version but eventually relented.

Def

[nuphoria]

I learnt something yesterday... no doubt many of you know this.

The word Jeep came from the critter in Popeye cartoons that could go anywhere, hence it being used as a nickname for the army vehicles.

Cracked.com?

No, from the Wiki page!

[Pacu]

I traded my Jeep today for a truck. I loved my jeep but i needed a bed to haul stuff in. Maybe one day i'll return to the jeep life. I will miss getting the jeep wave from other jeep owners. They understood. 

 

[Pacu]

on the plus side i bet i can fit at least a 760 liter aquarium in the back. 

[KDX]

I'm going to check out the new Subaru Forester in March (supposedly that is when they arrive at the dealers).

[Grant Lamontagne]

on the plus side i bet i can fit at least a 760 liter aquarium in the back. 

I need to haul stuff to so I decided to get a Jeep and a utility trailer.    Of course I don't have to haul much, often or go far, plus winters here are really a bad time for a pickup.  I don't imagine you get too many good old Canadian winters in Texas, so that's probably not a consideration for you! 

I'm going to check out the new Subaru Forester in March (supposedly that is when they arrive at the dealers).

The 2013's should be at dealer showrooms already.  They would have started arriving in November or thereabouts.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

Guess what just showed up at the dealership!

Def

Sent from my Motorola Atrix digital multitool.