Been out tire kicking again....

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'd love to get a Defender but it's just not an option here.  I am seriously considering another Jeep, but this one kind of jumped out at me- it's kinda nice with extremely low kilometers and I may be able to lowball the dealership which is always fun.

Anyways, I am in no rush to buy another truck so I'll wait it out a bit and see if this one moves.  If it doesn't go in the next few weeks maybe I'll go harass them some more. 

Besides, I was kinda thinking of something like this...



Def

[J-sews]

Get any tire kicking in over the weekend?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Actually, I worked pretty well all weekend but I did have a chance to stop in at another Dodge dealer and I looked at Ram quad cabs.  I decided that I have no interest in them and I'll probably get a new Jeep instead.  But, I think I'm holding off for a while longer. Mine has too much life left in it to waste on the next owner.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Actually, I worked pretty well all weekend but I did have a chance to stop in at another Dodge dealer and I looked at Ram quad cabs.  I decided that I have no interest in them and I'll probably get a new Jeep instead.  But, I think I'm holding off for a while longer. Mine has too much life left in it to waste on the next owner.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

I have not been at all impressed with any of the Rams.  Their one single good point is that they're cheap.  I'd buy one if I needed something I could, and was going to, beat the livin' smurf out of, but not for anything else.  I feel the same way about Fords.

[Mr. Whippy]

Actually, I worked pretty well all weekend but I did have a chance to stop in at another Dodge dealer and I looked at Ram quad cabs.  I decided that I have no interest in them and I'll probably get a new Jeep instead.  But, I think I'm holding off for a while longer. Mine has too much life left in it to waste on the next owner.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

I have not been at all impressed with any of the Rams.  Their one single good point is that they're cheap.  I'd buy one if I needed something I could, and was going to, beat the livin' smurf out of, but not for anything else.  I feel the same way about Fords.

We're a Chevy family.   

Seriously though, Pretty hard to beat the Duramax diesel paired with the Allison Auto transmission. 

We've had 3 Chevy pickups over the last 15 years.  Never had a serious issue with any of them (Over 200K miles).  The first truck was replaced when we decided we wanted to go to diesel.  (That 454 was awesome however!  125K miles). 

The next one was sold on to our son at 65K miles because he needed a good tow rig but couldn't afford one.  We sold him the first Duramax diesel for the trade in value and replaced it with our current truck (35K miles). 

No complaints about any of them.

[derekmac]

Seriously though, Pretty hard to beat the Duramax diesel paired with the Allison Auto transmission. 

  to that!

I'm a Ford truck guy, but I really don't think you can beat the Duramax/Allison combo.

[J-sews]

I've got a Chevy and a Ford. Now both camps look upon me with scorn.

[ducttapetech]

Seriously though, Pretty hard to beat the Duramax diesel paired with the Allison Auto transmission. 

  to that!

I'm a Ford truck guy, but I really don't think you can beat the Duramax/Allison combo.

There are a good combo. I am still a fan of the old 300ci straight six. Best damn engine ever made. Pair with a 5 speed, you can pull or haul anything and they ran forever. Maybe that is why they quit making them.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I've got a Chevy and a Ford. Now both camps look upon me with scorn.

I suppose 20 years from now when you are ready for your next truck it'll be a Dodge! 

Def

[dks]

A note on pick-up trucks.

I regularly drive 4x4 pickups and have done so for many years, mainly Chevrolet/Isuzu 2.3 to 3.1L diesels.

Their off road ability is compromised by the fact that they have very little weight distributed in the back. This means that I can drive up hills on a normal 4x4  (Jeep, Mitsubishi Land Rover, etc.) in 2wd that a pickup will struggle to go up, even in 4wd.

This is naturally a big problem with 2wd drive pickups too and I have had on occasion needed to load up (usually with people..) the bed of a 2wd pickup so that it could drive up a hill, that would have been easy to drive up in a normal, rwd, saloon car.

Also, pickup trucks are longer (well, not compared to the H2 which is NOT a real Hammer anyway – Top Gear did a test of it some time ago, in which it broke down) and harder to drive through narrow paths. If you get stuck and have to reverse through a narrow path close to a cliff you will not be happy, especially since you will not be able to see much because of the high bed (done it a few times).

They are, however, fun as because of the light weight they have at the back they can be made to slide about easily. Great fun in mud! 

Short answer: if you get a pickup and drive it off-road like a Wrangler you will get stuck…

[Grant Lamontagne]

I won't be buying a pickup- there simply isn't room for my dog in one.  I know that sounds odd, that I would buy something based on the preferences of my dog, but the reality is she goes with me a lot more than anything I would put in the bed of a pickup, and so I have to take that into consideration- and no I won't put her in the bed, even with a cap on.

I was looking at 4 door pickups in case I wanted to bring other people along, and I just thought I could fold the seats down and put her in there, but fold down back seats in a pickup are really not that great for putting things in the back seats either- when the seats fold the deck area (where the dog or cargo would go) is generally pretty high up and that would necessitate a big jump for her to get in and out.  She can do it now, but that will wear out her joints pretty quick and since she's over 100 pounds she's a hell of a thing to lift in and out all the time.

In short, I've been looking at pickups too, but I've pretty well discounted them.

Def

[jzmtl]

She can do it now, but that will wear out her joints pretty quick and since she's over 100 pounds she's a hell of a thing to lift in and out all the time.


Def

Think of it as free gym membership.   

[derekmac]

This is all you would need for her 


http://www.ramp4paws.com/

[Grant Lamontagne]

I have been meaning to get one of those anyway.  About  year ago Chinook hurt his shoulder jumping out of the Jeep and scared us half to death.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

As I may have mentioned a time or two in the past, I really don't care for Asian import vehicles, and yet I am still looking at them to make sure I make the right choice when it's time to buy.  I am pushing off my purchase at least another six months though as there are really no Jeeps that fit my requirements this side of Toronto... which is a very long way away.

I have looked most recently at the Toyota FJ Cruiser as it does come highly recommended, but that's from Toyota people who seem to take delight in trying to convince everyone else in the world that anyone who buys something other than a Toyota is an idiot.  Well Toyota people, the FJ Cruiser is nice but I'd hate to get it muddy- and the price is a bit hefty.  It starts at about the same level as a fully equipped Jeep Rubicon, and the Jeep maintains a higher resale.  Also, compared to the 4 door Wrangler, the FJ feels pretty bulky and it doesn't feel as confident as the Jeep.  It is smoother and more refined than the Jeep, but let's face it, I am buying a truck and I don't think I'm asking too much to actually have it feel like a truck.  I don't want it to feel like an over inflated car.  One point in it's favor, the FJ has a higher towing capacity than the Jeep- 5,000lbs vs the 3,500 for the Jeep.  I'd prefer the extra power, but for the little I actually tow, that's a want, not a need.

I also looked at the Subaru Forester, which I liked.  I had to look at the top of the line version as it's in line (price wise) with the top of the line Jeep.  The top of the line Forester puts out 224hp, compared to the second place model with only 170hp.  So, I thought that the extra power would kick up the towing capacity of the Forester from the 2,000lbs that the 170hp versions can pull, but since the extra power is developed with a turbocharger, it really isn't good for towing wince it's not "actual" power.  My current Jeep pulls 2,000 pounds, and I don't think that's enough since I want to get a small camping trailer- and I sure as heck don't want to spend $30,000+ to get a car that does what the one I already have does.  There's an Outback model with a higher towing capacity but it's not as high up, which is an issue for me as I like the added visibility in a higher vehicle and my dog already has to hunch down in the car- I don't need two hunched down vehicles.

The only other contender that I gave any serious thought to was the Nissan X Terra, which I liked a fair bit, but to get the heavy duty off road model (my preference for work as well as play) the price jumps up to almost $40k.  That's a lot more than the Jeep I'm interested in, and that's not even the top of the line version.  It does however have a roof rack, which considering my kayak habit is a bonus.  Of course, for the difference in price I could get more than a few of these racks...



So, getting away from the "Jeep Guy" snobbery, the Jeep does seem like the best bet for me.  We could argue snobbery stuff till the cows come home (Jeep and Toyota are probably the two top brand snobs in the general automotive industry so we won't go there!) but the Jeep has more good points than any of the others, and with the exception of the Subaru, it is the most affordable.

The FJ has the highest towing capacity but it's bulky, expensive and has terrible rear view visibility.

The Forester has good visibility and is quite affordable but falls down on towing capacity and actual "truckishness" if you get my meaning.

The X Terra is also pretty bulky and a lot more expensive to make it as rugged as the Jeep, and the roof rack isn't worth that much- and neither is the bulge in the rear door for the first aid kit.    It also has a higher towing capacity than the Jeep.

The Jeep offers the second highest towing capacity, could be tied as the cheapest depending on options, is rugged right from the get go.  The towing capacity is a bit of a hit, but 3,500lbs is adequate for my needs- I'd like more, but that's really to make things more comfortable to tow than actually needing the extra capacity.  In short it's as tough (if not the toughest) of the bunch, the four door isn't too expensive and gives it (more or less) the internal capacity the others have, and it has the benefit of being convertible with removable doors.  That's not a deal breaker, but I'll tell you it really is nice to have....

The only real drawback to the Jeep (other than the towing capacity) is the fact that it rides rough- it's perhaps the roughest of the bunch.  That having been said, it's also the only one that really rides like a truck should, and having grown up in trucks, I actually like that.  And of course as rough as it is, it's still a step up from my current Jeep which is only slightly less comfortable than a fraternity hazing. 




So, while I still have a lot of time before I actually pull the trigger, I'm pretty well convinced the Jeep is the way to go.  I'm still open to options, so if anyone else has any other thoughts they want to toss out there, feel free...

Def

[dks]

The forester is not really a "proper off roader", though it comes pretty close.

Also check it out in Diesel.

Also look at Mitsubishi Pajeros, though they may be a bit too expensive (should be less than the Toyota). The bigger 4x4 nissans are ok, though legendary for being gutless. I assume Rovers and Mercedes models are out of the question.

Again, remember that most people buying these type of vehicles outside the US, Canada etc. regions buy diesels.

Avoid any soft-roader versions as they will not be much use to you. also a lot of them are based on pick-up trucks and are surprisingly uncomfortable on normal roads. However, if you just want to tow a boat or caravan  over mildly slippery ground most soft roaders can do the job.

Most people doing off roading in their, STOCK, cars here use Mitsubishis or Suzukis. There are very few Toyotas and they are usually the older models.
Of course as a status symbol you can buy a  Toyota land cruiser/Range rover/BMW/Mercedes etc...

[derekmac]

Also check it out in Diesel.

Unfortunately for us, about the only things we can get here in diesel are Jettas and one ton trucks.   More companies do seem to be bringing a diesel option over now, and it's about time, but it's going to take a long time to come any where near what Europe had. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Whoey]

In Europe seems like Diesel and standard transmission are pretty much the norm... at least there's loads available.

[Grant Lamontagne]

There are very few diesels here, although I have seen diesel conversions for my Jeep.  The easiest would be to use a Parker (?) engine from a forklift of all things.  Apparently it has power for days.

But, I'm not looking to convert anything- the sad thing is I'm going to have to look at a new truck soon and hand my Jeep over to the hardcore off road crowd to modify the heck out of.

There's not much here available from Mistubishi- the only truck options are the Outlander and RVR, neither of which I expect are much more than soccer mom cars.  The towing capacity on the Outlander is about the same as my current Jeep and my VW Golf has a higher towing capacity than the RVR.

The Rover LR2 is the closest Rover to my budget, but to be honest I'm not sure I want to buy the cheapest Rover on the market.  I thought about the Evoque, but there is absolutely no visibility out the back end, and they are even smaller than they seem due to the slanted roof.  I see literally hundreds of them every week at work and while they do look like they have a decent approach/departure angle I've heard that they are really not meant to get dirty.  Again, I'd rather not spend more to be at the bottom end of the Rover spectrum when I could spend less and be at the top end of the Jeep spectrum.

I would be all for a Mercedes, except the only one I am interested in is a bit out of my price range...



Even the "cheap" model is about three times the cost of a top of the line Jeep.  I have no interest in the M and R series as they are crappy soccer mom trucks and the GLK starts near where the Jeep tops out at, and is based on the C class platform- which means it's a car with a truck body on it.

I'm not particularly stuck on a serious off road vehicle as I really don't go off road that much.  As much fun as I have doing it, I'd miss it but it's not something I want to invest new truck money on.  What I need is a good solid truck that will handle similar situations as light to medium off roading as these are the kinds of situations I face at work.  The shipyards I work in are constantly pounded by heavy vehicles and heavier cargo, plus are exposed to bad weather, snow, ice, freezing temperatures and so on- plus there are train tracks everywhere and when I am not at ship yards I am at truck and trailer yards, most of which aren't paved, or at other industrial settings.  Since I am rarely in the nice, pretty executive or visitor parking lots I need something that can stand up to the rigors of ruts from 50,000 pound trailers in frozen in the mud.

No exaggeration here, but last year I was at a facility in Cape Breton (about 300kms away from me) and I was glad I was in the Jeep.  It was a three hour drive each way for an hour's worth of work.  I'd thought about bringing my VW as the Jeep is really painful and awkward for extended highway trips, but I brought the Jeep instead since my wife can't drive a standard and I didn't want to leave her without a car.

When I got there I realized that I had to follow a long winding road from the main office down to the dock, which wasn't really a big deal, but as it was usually traveled by large trucks, front end loaders and other heavy equipment it was kind of rough.  Not a problem for my Jeep, and to be honest, my VW would have handled it as well.... that is until I came to a puddle.  Or rather, what I thought was a puddle.  It was more like a sinkhole right in the middle of the road, complete with about a foot dropoff that I only discovered when my Jeep nosedived into it.  I was doing about 25-30kph when I hit it so it was a bit of a shock and water sprayed up over my hood.  In the Jeep this wasn't an issue and I just kept going and came out the other side a little shaken but no worse for the wear.  If that had been my VW, that would have been the end of my VW.

While that is not an every day kind of thing, it does illustrate the kinds of things I need a vehicle to be able to handle as that sort of thing (to one degree or another) is pretty well what I do for a living.  My boss has a full sized Dodge Ram 4x4, which to be honest I also seriously considered, but I am really not interested in a pickup truck.

So there you go- that's why I want a tough truck, not because of incidents like this...



 

Def

[dks]

Then the Subaru, Toyota Rav4, 4x4 Volvos/Audi/VW/Cayenne etc. should provide all you need.
Honda CRV even, though the new is definitely not a proper off roader.

Or, a nice but hard and uncomfortable Pick-up truck.

[Grant Lamontagne]

None of those is a proper off roader IMHO.  I've got no interest in the ones of those I could afford (RAV4 and CRV), and not enough budget for the Volvo, Audi, VW or Porsche.

The RAV 4 and CRV are "cute utes" for people who think dipping a couple of tires off the pavement in the parking lot at an outlet mall is off road.  Too much electronics and flimsy IFS.  I'd be better off driving my Golf.

Def

[Syph007]

I think if you're a jeep guy, you're not going to be happy with anything but a jeep.   My brother in law was a jeep guy and loved his.  His wife convinced him to trade it for a minivan!  He still fondly talks about his jeep days and offroading fun.

[Grant Lamontagne]

See, that's really the thing. I've got a Jeep and I enjoy it, but I don't think I'm really a "Jeep Guy" per se.  If there was another reasonable option I'd seriously consider it.  I had a Tracker once and I'd consider another if they were still available.  Isuzu had a car called the Amigo that I'd consider if it still existed.  If the new Ford Escape was still a truck I'd consider it.  If there was still a Jimmy or Blazer available (that was a truck and not a minivan in disguise) I'd be interested in those.

The sad fact is there are very few actual trucks out there that are even remotely solid these days.  Dodge has even killed the Nitro, which had some promise.

The few actual contenders really (not pickup trucks) are the Jeep, X Terra and FJ Cruiser, and of the three the Jeep is the most reasonably priced while still fulfilling my needs.

I guess that makes me a Jeep Guy by circumstance.  There really are no decent contenders to the Jeep.  I'm researching specs and test driving different things and nothing compares to the Jeep, as sad as I am to admit it.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

[jzmtl]

.

I guess that makes me a Jeep Guy by circumstance.  There really are no decent contenders to the Jeep. 

Thats exactly what I think, there really isn't any fun vehicles in the same price range, and you don't have to worry about door ding in parking lot.

[dks]

None of those is a proper off roader IMHO.  I've got no interest in the ones of those I could afford (RAV4 and CRV), and not enough budget for the Volvo, Audi, VW or Porsche.
Def

I do not know what the prices are in Canada, but have a look at Scoda and Dacia (the new value brand of Renault) off road offerings. 
They have gotten some good reviews (see Top Gear etc.)

[Grant Lamontagne]

Skoda hasn't been available here for many years and Dacia I don't think was ever available in Canada, although I do see a fair number of Dacias passing through our port on their way to Saint Pierre.  I really like the Duster, but again, not available here.

If there were still Nivas around I'd be happy to get one of those!



Def

[dks]

If there were still Nivas around I'd be happy to get one of those!

Def

You are getting pretty desperate now, Grant.....   


OK, they were good in their day..

[Grant Lamontagne]

Yes, in their day.... they stopped importing them in '97 officially.  In reality they'd actually stopped imported them to Canada in '95, and all the ones imported in '96 and '97 were actually overstock '95's.

They were a great old truck- Fiat designed them beautifully in the 60's.  The Russians did a hilarious job of updating them over the years too, which makes owning them well worthwhile!  It's blacked out in the pic, but there was always a hole in the bumper for the crank handle to manually start the engine, even though the engine was updated years ago and you couldn't use the crank handles any more.  The Russians just saw no reason to change the tooling to get rid of the hole....

And the transmissions were fun too.  Usually a transmission is boring, but not with the Nivas!  The Russians decided to convert the 4 speed to a 5 speed so rather than design a new bell housing they just used the old ones, along with the old gear ratios as well.  They just added a bigger one on the end, and since the shaft wasn't long enough they just spot welded on enough to hold the fifth gear.  This all went well, at least for a few years when the spot welds broke.  You still could do whatever you wanted in them as a four speed, but you ended up with what I always referred to as an "optional second neutral!"

For all of that though, they were solid trucks putting out almost as much torque with a 4 cylinder as my Jeep does in six.... and for about half the cost of a Jeep.

Def

[lowtech]

My brother loves his 2007 Niva he got a few weeks back.

It´s at the shop right now to change some seals at the distributor transmission (I hope it´s called that way - the gears that distribute power to both axles).
I am amazed its able to pull 1900 kg.
I really liek the no frills design. As it is converted to be a bivalent Petrol/LPG car, the somewhat higher fuel consumption compared to a 2WD car is not that painful to tha wallet (Petrol is about 1,72 euro/l while LPG is about 72 ct/l)

I could imagine owning one, too, although i hardly need a 4WD.

[dks]

  Grant, if you do not need a serious Off Roader then this may be of interest to you:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2013-ford-escape-vs-2012-honda-cr-v-2012-hyundai-tucson-2012-kia-sportage-2013-mazda-cx-5-2012-toyota-rav4-comparison-test