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Shovel/spade/entrenching tools

au Offline Cyclone82

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Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
on: October 23, 2012, 10:45:30 AM
I am looking to buy a small folding/colapsable shovel/entrenching tool that will fit in a bag/back pack. I dont know much about them but i had seen those cheap knock off sort of ones around the place over the years.

I am looking for very good quality, dont want to buy cheap no name one made in china, so cost does not really matter.

I am looking for one that  is good enough for militarys to use and if it was made in Japan, USA, Sweden, Switzerland,  Finland, German or somewhere that would be good.

After a little bit of searching the 'Glock E-tool' gets a good recomendations how ever can anyone who has one tell me how the handle stays extended and whats it made from? All i have read is that its made from the same stuff their guns are made from but i am not into guns so dont know that?

Who was the orignal maker of those ones with the triangle handle you see a lot of?

Who makes them for the US military and are they any good?

What other brands are there? Are SOG or Gerber worth considering? Are they any better than the Glock?

Thanks
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 10:57:36 AM by Cyclone82 »


no Offline Grathr

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #1 on: October 23, 2012, 02:02:44 PM
I have no idea who makes the different shovels. We where issued the trangurlar type in the army, and I used that a bit for digging out OP's and a few fox holes.
I just bought a used old style  US made ones with the wooden handle at a surplus store and I personally like that one better. Its lighter and has a longer handle wich makes it easier to dig with.

You should also check out this thread. Its chineese made, but I have heard that they are pretty solid.
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,40329.0.html
-Knívleysur maður er lívleysur maður.
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #2 on: October 23, 2012, 02:13:22 PM
I have owned a couple of folding shovels over the years, and somewhere I have one of those with a short telescopic handle and a shovel one side and a pick the other. Neither were probably up to the calibre you're looking for ... but ... I now have a Cold Steel Spetznaz Shovel.

It's not folding so would need to be stowed in a larger pack, but I'd rather have than than any of the smaller folding ones. The wooden handle gives good strength and lightness and being one piece gives me more confidence than hinges and pivots at collars and stuff. It's a reasonably useful size head too. OK, it doesn't set at 90 degrees for use as a pick etc, but that's what'll be going in the boot of my car this winter in case and fluffy white stuff needs relocating  :P :D :D


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be Offline Top-Gear-24

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #3 on: October 23, 2012, 06:21:07 PM
Here's a pic of mine, I use it when I'm searching with my Garrett metaldetector.
It's seen a lot of use  (sometimes heavy use ...) and hasn't failed me yet, I bought it at the local "army store".

On the handles it says US on one side and AMES81 on the other.

My friend bought a "knock off version" and after only 2 days of digging (and chopping roots) the shovel was torn off the handle, he then bought the same as me and is still using it.



no Offline Grathr

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #4 on: October 23, 2012, 08:38:54 PM
Here's a pic of the $9 surplus foldable shovel I just got. Its a bit long to put inside a backpack, but will hang nicely on the outside of one.
-Knívleysur maður er lívleysur maður.
 "A Knifeless man is a lifeless man" old Faroese proverb.


ca Offline derekmac

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #5 on: October 23, 2012, 10:28:02 PM
Here's a pic of the $9 surplus foldable shovel I just got. Its a bit long to put inside a backpack, but will hang nicely on the outside of one.
(Image removed from quote.)

Kind of looks like the one I keep in the Jeep.






no Offline Grathr

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #6 on: October 23, 2012, 10:55:28 PM
Here's a pic of the $9 surplus foldable shovel I just got. Its a bit long to put inside a backpack, but will hang nicely on the outside of one.
(Image removed from quote.)

Kind of looks like the one I keep in the Jeep.

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Its not quite the same. Mine has no pick at the back,and the shaft is fastened with two rivets. Is the fastening sylinder on yours made of plastic or metal? I have one that is very similar to yours made in taiwan wich has a plastic fatening cyliner. That tool is smaller and not as solid as the old US one wich is all metal and wood.
-Knívleysur maður er lívleysur maður.
 "A Knifeless man is a lifeless man" old Faroese proverb.


us Offline Smitty44

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 12:24:06 AM
Mine is all metal and wood,no spike on the back and made in the USA,dated 1944. :salute:


us Offline Heinz Doofenshmirtz

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 01:04:09 AM
Condor makes a cool looking one, with a folding head.  It's called the 'folding claw shovel' or something like that.  Been wanting to get one, but haven't gotten around to it because I have one of those old GI ones too.  It's heavy and clunky, but it's tough as nails and gets the job done.
The first Noble Truth: life is suffering.  Only by accepting that fact can we transcend it.


au Offline Cyclone82

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 08:15:44 AM
Thanks for the replies, still reading through them

I did a bit more research and these are mentioned a lot

USGI Ames tri folding E-tool – seems to be many versions not sure which is best/genuine, alloy or steel handle?, or fromt what era is best? Theres a lot of them on ebay.
Fiskars NATO E- Tool branded/sold by Gerber made by Fiskars Finland – But is this really military issue or a copy??????
Glock ET17070 Entrenching Tool
Chinese Military shovel WJQ-308 – seem to be the most expensive so far, are they really that great?
Gerber 33 – cant seem to find this one
cold steel spetznatz – pretty sure its not folding so not much interest to me

Others mentioned but I have not found them or don’t know what to look for are

The Swiss Army E-tool
German Bundeswehr E-tool

Must come with a sheath or be able to get one separately.
Main use is just for a camping kit to take on a motorcycle, so anything is better than nothing but I would like something that’s good quality.

Dont expect to be abusing it and realise its not going to be as good as a full size non folder.

I can see what will happen though, I will end up buying a few and getting a little collection going but I would really like to keep it to a minium!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 08:21:55 AM by Cyclone82 »


us Offline Stormdrane

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 08:27:44 AM
Is there an American made version of the Chinese Military Shovel?...  :o  I just want one for the bottle opener function, lol...  8)


au Offline mvyrmnd

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 09:39:16 AM
I just bought a Saperka - otherwise known as the Spetsnaz shovel :)

Waiting on it to come from the UK...
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gb Offline Sparky415

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #12 on: October 24, 2012, 09:49:10 AM


I can see what will happen though, I will end up buying a few and getting a little collection going but I would really like to keep it to a minium!

 :oops:  That's how I started with Axes   :D

Everything’s adjustable


au Offline Cyclone82

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #13 on: October 24, 2012, 12:16:34 PM
If this is the real deal genuine Chinese army version, the one that costs $100? it looks pretty impressive. I wonder where i can one of these. Ok here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Chinese-Military-Shovel-Emergency-Tools-WJQ-308-version-2012-updated-/260969678273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc30145c1

I assume it must be of decent quality and not like the repro US ones the chinese make. Looks like i got a a bit of a shopping list now. Are their rip offs of this or am i pretty safe to buy from one of these mobs in china?

Anyone got one already?

Chinese Military Shovel WJQ-308 (HQ + Full length)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 12:40:23 PM by Cyclone82 »


ca Offline derekmac

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #14 on: October 24, 2012, 12:37:48 PM
Its not quite the same. Mine has no pick at the back,and the shaft is fastened with two rivets. Is the fastening sylinder on yours made of plastic or metal? I have one that is very similar to yours made in taiwan wich has a plastic fatening cyliner. That tool is smaller and not as solid as the old US one wich is all metal and wood.

Ah, couldn't tell looking at it if it had the pick or not.  Mines all metal, but the fastening cylinder does say Taiwan on it.  It seems to be built pretty sturdy, but I haven't really given it a workout yet.


au Offline Cyclone82

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #15 on: October 24, 2012, 12:44:15 PM
Heres the others the same ebay seller has



I had seen an ebay seller in Australia selling what looks to be Q2 or Q3 and claimed it to be 'genuine military issue' but was not real clear on who for. I just dismissed it as a rip off of the US military version but maybe that is not the case.

This forum has got to be the quickest way to burn a hole in your pocket. :D
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 12:48:51 PM by Cyclone82 »


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #16 on: October 24, 2012, 12:50:29 PM
We've all been patiently waiting for one of our own to pony up for the WJQ-308 for a while  :pok: I reckon a knowledgeable chap like you familiar with a range of entrenching tools would be the ideal candidate  ;) :whistle:


 :popcorn:


 :D


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us Offline MadPlumbarian

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #17 on: October 24, 2012, 01:23:55 PM
The Crovel! There first one was a solid crowbar, but there newer ones not solid and has a storage handle, JR
http://www.crovelfoldingshovel.com/
"The-Mad-Plumbarian" The Punisher Of Pipes!!! JR
As I sit on my Crapper Throne in the Reading Room and explode on the Commode, thinking, how my flush beat John’s and Jerry’s pair? Jack’s had to run for the Water Closet yet ended up tripping on a Can bowing and hitting his Head on the Porcelain God! 🚽


au Offline Cyclone82

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #18 on: October 24, 2012, 01:54:28 PM
Well i am close to pulling the trigger on the chinese one first.

Then i saw the Crovel.


us Offline MadPlumbarian

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #19 on: October 24, 2012, 04:21:09 PM
Well i am close to pulling the trigger on the chinese one first.

Then i saw the Crovel.
if you like what's on that page you got to do a little more research, cause that's not everything, they have other attachments for it, grant it it's a little pricy but if you were going to pay for the other one, its not that much more, unless you start buying all the accessory,,  JR
"The-Mad-Plumbarian" The Punisher Of Pipes!!! JR
As I sit on my Crapper Throne in the Reading Room and explode on the Commode, thinking, how my flush beat John’s and Jerry’s pair? Jack’s had to run for the Water Closet yet ended up tripping on a Can bowing and hitting his Head on the Porcelain God! 🚽


au Offline Cyclone82

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #20 on: October 28, 2012, 11:57:06 AM
Quote
if you like what's on that page you got to do a little more research, cause that's not everything, they have other attachments for it, grant it it's a little pricy but if you were going to pay for the other one, its not that much more, unless you start buying all the accessory,,  JR





I am not sure what you are referring to. What has a lot of attachements/accessories?


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #21 on: October 28, 2012, 12:22:12 PM
Another CS Spetznaz Shovel fan here :tu:
Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!


us Offline MadPlumbarian

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #22 on: October 28, 2012, 04:47:56 PM
Ok, there's three diff Crovels, the one I made mine like is the original one, completely solid, just mine doesnt fold, the next one that they made was the hollow handle one where you can store stuff in, that one you can get the spike, that replaces the storage cap, also, a plastic guard to prevent you from cutting yourself from the spade. There's a newer one that just came out, but the spade is solid, doesn't fold, and there's no hammer, but they also came out with a diff spike, I don't know if the new one will fit on the other shovel, but at least that spike will work both ways, spike out or blunt end out. I thought there was something else, but I don't remember,

Here's mine, I didn't have the $$ to get one so I made one, just used a hammer, crowbar, and a piece of diamond plate, grant it it doesn't fold, I tried with a diff technique, but well it failed, and I got tired and just wielded it together!

And here's finished, sorry the pic sucks,
and that's my 12yr old in a 16yr olds body holding it at 5'-6" and 150lbs, to give you an idea to size displacement, again sorry the pic sucks! JR any other questions I'll try to answer,,
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 05:02:57 PM by MadPlumbarian »
"The-Mad-Plumbarian" The Punisher Of Pipes!!! JR
As I sit on my Crapper Throne in the Reading Room and explode on the Commode, thinking, how my flush beat John’s and Jerry’s pair? Jack’s had to run for the Water Closet yet ended up tripping on a Can bowing and hitting his Head on the Porcelain God! 🚽


au Offline Cyclone82

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #23 on: November 01, 2012, 08:58:42 AM
Cant say that i saw all the different attachments for the Crovel. What site is that on?


us Offline MadPlumbarian

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #24 on: November 01, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
Besides having the paracord, then the rooms to store all stuff in the handle, they have the spike and the head sleeve, I thought there was more, I found this site, someone did a better review,, JR
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=97837
"The-Mad-Plumbarian" The Punisher Of Pipes!!! JR
As I sit on my Crapper Throne in the Reading Room and explode on the Commode, thinking, how my flush beat John’s and Jerry’s pair? Jack’s had to run for the Water Closet yet ended up tripping on a Can bowing and hitting his Head on the Porcelain God! 🚽


br Offline Santos

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #25 on: January 03, 2013, 03:04:48 PM
Maybe late but CS spetznav shovel. Its a little expensive to get one here to australia but worth it. Putting it in a sleeve/sheath, hang it off your belt/backpack. Sturdy light/simple. I have a few chinese clone USA folders for friends to help dig out the car if necessary but only the CS chops through eucalypt and brush or cuts through roots etc.

I got a folding WW2 german type (straight handle, folding head, like the one pictured in jeep few post up ) Scored it in a clean up campaign for free! (next day i was at the markets and a guy wanted $27 for an identical one) Seems heavy and not really worth the weaknest of the pivot for slight reduction in length.

I am all for reusing surplus rather than buying new but if i am paying more for nostagia alone it seems pointless (EG non-Cold steel shovels from ex-eastern block nations are available... prices vary)
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br Offline Santos

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #26 on: January 03, 2013, 03:06:15 PM
The chinese-mega shovel and the crovel to me are just downright gimmicky bling
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fi Offline mtool78

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Re: Shovel/spade/entrenching tools
Reply #27 on: January 26, 2013, 10:29:48 PM
Fiskars makes pretty good ones - these have been used by Finnish Defence Forces for a long time. Design has been changed a little since my military service but it's always been rock solid tool. There is also cheap chinese copies available which will bend easily.



 

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