First Swiss Army Knife?

[Outback in Idaho]

Narrowed them down some.
Most selections do not have a corkscrew, though a few might. I find them pokey things annoying and dead weight.
The magnifier isn't that big of an issue since Neuphoria pointed out the thing is useless for solar ignition.

Allowing a 2 vote per person, as one may recommend a second option. 

[stax]

Compact.  Wait, no corkscrew?  Pioneer.  But if you want toothpick and can live with a corkscrew, I'd go w/ a Compact.  Otherwise, Tinker.  But that's me. Such a personal choice.

[AimlessWanderer]

I still voted for Explorer (putting a mini eyeglasses driver in there will make it a bit better for you), but also voted for Super Tinker  You'll be surprised how useful (and excellent) the scissors are 

[jerseydevil]

I voted for the Tinker and the Explorer.  The Tinker was my first SAK, and is still a favorite option when I want to keep it simple.    The Explorer is a great knife in its own right, a great tool load.  Even if it's not being used for trying to start fires, the mag glass is great.  I think my Explorer will make a trip to work tomorrow.....

[Monrogue]

I still voted for Explorer (putting a mini eyeglasses driver in there will make it a bit better for you), but also voted for Super Tinker  You'll be surprised how useful (and excellent) the scissors are 

As did I   I also put the mini screwdriver in the corkscrew, as well as the straight pin (both of which I stole from my Compact).  I agree about scissors as well.  They are one of the most used tools on any SAK I own.  If the Compact was an voting option, I would have voted for it along with the Explorer. 

I find the Explorer to be pocketable, but not everyone does.  It's pretty much the same thickness as a Leatherman Charge AL, if that is a helpful point of reference. 

[Monrogue]

I voted for the Tinker and the Explorer.  The Tinker was my first SAK, and is still a favorite option when I want to keep it simple.    The Explorer is a great knife in its own right, a great tool load.  Even if it's not being used for trying to start fires, the mag glass is great.  I think my Explorer will make a trip to work tomorrow.....

That's why I like the Compact, it's slim and simple and has one of the best all around tool sets for a two layer SAK.  However, it doesn't have any kind of phillips screwdriver, so if that's a big deal, then it may not be the best option. 

I do enjoy that magnifying glass too.  I can't wait to spend a hot, sunny summer day burning ants   Just kidding.....maybe

[papercut]

Don't forget the Wenger Teton, all the goodness of the Super Tinker, but in an 84mm frame and thus easier to carry.

Cheers

[Outback in Idaho]

Don't forget the Wenger Teton, all the goodness of the Super Tinker, but in an 84mm frame and thus easier to carry.

Cheers

My apologies. Added it for you, but when doing a search for the tools via the configurator I specifically requested an awl with thread hole. This probably why I did not see the tool.
If anyone that knows me from the Leatherman fabboi club is I am a stickler for an awl with a threadloop.


Why an awl with a threadloop?
Long ago when youth was on my side and I had the world by the tail, I actually became a wildland firefighter. My late father was a forest ranger, was the closest I had ever gotten.

On the very first contract fire as a professional, out in Provo, Utah ... mop-up. Boring, unexpected flare-ups while cold trailing the perimeter - daily. Out in 3+ feet of ash, walking on coals and not knowing it, came flying out screaming "AYE CHIHAUHAU!!!" and dancing like a fool. Poured my canteen over my soles and steam was coming off. The Hispanic line crew are all laughing at me.

Look down and there's a hole between the upper and the sole, 3 inches or better. Okay, unless i can find a pair of boots in a size 13 wide my season is over. Looking over my resources had a Leatherman Super Tool, a cadaver needle, and this braided nylon twine my Uncle-In-law pilfered from  the Air Force Base.


Still have that spool and needle too!

Close-up of needle. Bought this in my early 20's in buck-skinning & black powder days.

How many people have had the same needle for 30+ years?

On my lunch break, I started to sew the uppers, through the lasting, through the rubber with those 3 implements. To keep it short, used the Super Tool's awl to penetrate through the rubber sole. Used the pliers to push and pull the cadaver needle, and stitched that thing up. Once I got a method it took me about 30 minutes.
The boots lasted me through the entire season and I proudly carried my Super Tool. It eventually became a Super Tool 300, though I do miss my original.


Couple of winters ago was as a bell ringer, worked late day into the evening. It got bone chattering cold. My knees ached something fierce. Had a spare old pair of thermals that had shredded briefs section.
With my Leatherman Super Tool 300 and some spare twine I had, cut off the legs up to mid thigh. Cut the cuffs off the bottom. Used the awl with threadloop to rough stitch them things over my other thermals. Made inside thermal gators. That idea kept my knees warm the rest of the season.
Since then I carry them two partial thermal legs in my winter gear in case I need a quick fix in the field. Carry extra winter gear in my car.


Not sure how good SAKs are as having the clones they were more gimmicks than functional. Suffice it to say I am skeptical. Yet am also curious.

[Lynn LeFey]

I'm not sure how good they are as heavy-duty needles, but I bored the awl of a Tinker and Farmer through a half inch oak board with not much problem. I just punched the Tinker's Reamer through the bottom of a tin can this afternoon.

[PTRSAK]

I voted for the Explorer and Super Tinker options. Like you I have little need for a corkscrew.

Throwing the Mod card into the game (I know that's hardly a realistic option for a first SAK) you sound like you need someone to build you a Yeoman or a Pioneer Explorer. I have the former and will (eventually) work up the courage to rip apart about $100 worth of SAKs to build the latter.

[kkokkolis]

I can't vote. There's no Swisschamp in there.

[Gareth]

3 layer option; Hiker.  4 layer option; Fieldmaster.  BTW the Feildmaster and Huntsman BSA are the same knife but just different names.

[Monrogue]

I voted for the Explorer and Super Tinker options. Like you I have little need for a corkscrew.

Throwing the Mod card into the game (I know that's hardly a realistic option for a first SAK) you sound like you need someone to build you a Yeoman or a Pioneer Explorer. I have the former and will (eventually) work up the courage to rip apart about $100 worth of SAKs to build the latter.

Oh I want a Yeoman badly   I wish I had gotten the SAK bug early enough to have gotten one of them when they were available   What's a Pioneer Explorer?

[borgwarrior]

I can't vote. There's no Swisschamp in there.

Indeed!

[HankSolon]

Where's the Spartan? 

[borgwarrior]

Everybody has a Spartan, even if they don't know about it.

[Outback in Idaho]

Everybody has a Spartan, even if they don't know about it.

I doesn't like corkscrews. Explorer is the only exception - just not sure why.

[sawman]

I voted for the Explorer as it has all the basics and is a good carry size.

[Aleister]

SwissChamp, Ranger, Climber... And none of them is a voting option

[BradGad]

If you don't like the corkscrew... well, then you don't like the corkscrew (though I think a strong case can be made that it's more useful than the t-mount Phillips even for non-winedrinkers).

Explorer? To get the full SAK experience, you need one you'll comfortably carry all the time. In jeans and heavy khakis, the Explorer is pocketable, but just barely. I found it too thick and heavy for true EDC use.

Super Tinker? The scissors are -- I think -- the most *convenient* of all SAK blades, but not really *necessary*. That is, when I have them, I use them a lot, but when I don't have them, I never feel like I'm really up a creek for want of a pair of scissors.

Tinker? The Tinker has the best form factor of any SAK: feels great in the hand, holds full-sized tools, and rides comfortably in any pocket. If I had to choose one SAK to live with from now on, and had ruled out corkscrew models, I would go with the Tinker.

[Smaug]

Short version: Super Tinker. Best compromise; as thick as you want to go for pocket carry.

Long Version:

I'm mostly with BradGad here. Except that I'm spoiled by the scissors more'n he is.

I think what lots of folks here do is to pick their primary pocket carry based on everything BUT scissors. Then, carry a Rambler with the keys.

I have an Explorer, Tinker, Small Tinker, Super Tinker, among others.

The ones that consistently get the most pocket carry is the Super Tinker. Like BradGad, I believe the 4th layer takes it out of the realm of comfortable pocket carry, even with jeans or cargo pants. It's just always a noticeable lump. I carried one for a couple weeks in China as my only knife, with a pocket hangar and lanyard. That makes all the difference. Keep it vertical, and it is not a problem. When it goes horizontal in the bottom of the pocket, then it is a bit annoying.

Not so with the SuperTinker.

When I'm carrying the Super Tinker, I occasionally miss the linline phillips or eyeglass screwdriver of the Explorer. That eyeglass screwdriver is a brilliant addition; I used mine a couple weeks ago to size a watch bracelet. It was just the right size for the screw pins.

I've got a Compact too. No usable phillips. In a life/death situations, you could diagonally use the tip of the combo tool, but that is so clumsy, you're nearly always better off just going and finding a screwdriver. The Compact has the file on the back of the hook, and also includes the eyeglass screwdriver and a straight pin. But for me, no phillips = no deal.

Another good option not considered yet is the Leatherman Crater. Their two layer model has a locking one-handed blade, and a very good phillips and flat head screwdriver. Then, just carry a needle somewhere else.

Don't rule out Wenger either. You can always drill your own hole in the awl, right? All you need is a center punch, the right size drill bit, and a drill. Check out the EvoGrip S16. One thing that is harder to remedy about the Wengers is that the awls are just awls, not reamers. It is nearly impossible to bore a hole with a Wenger awl, since they're not sharp on the edges. The S16 has a handier 85mm length, a locking blade, and an automatically locking screwdriver. (press on it hard, and it locks) Instead of a small blade, it has a nail file, but I think of it more as a light duty prybar with #1 phillips tip. Drill the sewing hole in the awl, and you're good to go. The main downsides to the Wengers are a) no proper reamer, and b) no small screwdriver tip (which doubles as an inline #2 phillips) on the can opener. Oh, and price.

[jerryf]

For me the ideal SAK  is the wenger s18.. it has everything you may need but is just that little bit smaller than the vics to pocket carry.
If you want to be more minimal then the victorinox alox cadet is next in line,or the compact or climber if you want the scissors...wooo..I could go on but getting hooked is part of the fun..

[BradGad]

Short version: Super Tinker. Best compromise; as thick as you want to go for pocket carry.

Long Version:

I'm mostly with BradGad here. Except that I'm spoiled by the scissors more'n he is.

I carried the Super Tinker's evil twin, the Climber, for over 30 years. I used the scissors more than any other tool by a long shot. So, Smaug's not talking crazy talk here.

I think what lots of folks here do is to pick their primary pocket carry based on everything BUT scissors. Then, carry a Rambler with the keys.

That's exactly what I do. Camper or Farmer + Rambler ...  The Farmer and Rambler go together like peas and carrots: no duplication of tools, and every blade is best-in-class. If I hadn't decided that a corkscrew is one of my must-haves, Farmer + Rambler would be the perfect set up for me.

Ya know... if the parameters are "no corkscrew and reasonable size for EDC pocket carry", then the Hiker really should be on the table too.  Has the Hiker gotten a mention? I don't remember seeing it. And the Hiker is a teency tincy but noticeable bit thinner than the Super Tinker or Climber  (the saw is thinner than the scissors).

Not so with the SuperTinker.

Not even when wearing dress slacks, suit pants, or summer-weight shorts? For me, the Climber or Super Tinker is fine -- even when it gets sideways -- in jeans or stout khakis, but not when wearing light weight pants. It goes into brick mode at that point.

The ones that consistently get the most pocket carry is the Super Tinker. Like BradGad, I believe the 4th layer takes it out of the realm of comfortable pocket carry, even with jeans or cargo pants. It's just always a noticeable lump. I carried one for a couple weeks in China as my only knife, with a pocket hangar and lanyard. That makes all the difference. Keep it vertical, and it is not a problem. When it goes horizontal in the bottom of the pocket, then it is a bit annoying.

One option here is to put a TEK P-7 clip on the knife's key ring.

http://www.lighthound.com/TEC-Accessories-P-7-Suspension-Clip--Stainless-Steel-Pocket-Clip_p_3470.html

Knife stays vertical. If you find that the half-an-extra-motion of pulling the knife out by the clip bothers you, move that pricey little clip over to your key chain and walk around all day with the goofy smile that comes from not having a wad of pointy keys bunching up at the bottom of your pocket poking you in the leg. Or get two clips.   

Oh wait.... "pocket hanger"... maybe we're saying the same thing.

I've got a Compact too. No usable phillips. In a life/death situations, you could diagonally use the tip of the combo tool, but that is so clumsy, you're nearly always better off just going and finding a screwdriver. The Compact has the file on the back of the hook, and also includes the eyeglass screwdriver and a straight pin. But for me, no phillips = no deal.

I've got a Compact too. When I ordered it, I thought it would be the end of my quest. But, I haven't been able to completely bond with it. One reason (evidently not pertinenent to Xelkos' quest)  is that I've discovered the wonders of the saw, and how well it fits with my lifestyle. Another is... I don't need the reamer/awl that often, but when I do, I tend to need it kinda bad. I miss the awl.

I'm actually pro-hook... especially the Compact's, avec le file. Fr'instance, I happened to have my Compact on me last weekend when moving some wet hay bales, and I was really glad: by putting the hook under the twine near the center of the bale, I could do most of the lifting comfortably with that hand, and just use my left hand to steady the bale.

b) no small screwdriver tip (which doubles as an inline #2 phillips)

This is the main reason I can't totally embrace the Wengers... I feel like I'm giving up a perfectly good tool for no good reason. It was stolen from me! Stolen I say! Because of that ding dang pointy can opener.

[papercut]

You can always file the file tip to be more like the sd tip on the Vic can opener.

[Outback in Idaho]

Not sure how useful a SAK is. I carry Leatherman tools too.

Haven't carried a pocket knife in decades. Have had a Case, Buck, Barlow. Dad carried the same types but was a Kabar. They are all basically the same three type blades. Nothing is different.

Of all the Leatherman tools I like the PST as it was my first Leatherman. I grew up around it in my 30's, later upgraded to a Super Tool that I didn't belt carry cause it was big. Later on had gotten a Pulse, but those unique locks got annoying. Got a Wave and was happy, yet it was missing that awl. Got a Charge 2 years ago, and it got lightly modded to have an awl in place of the redundant flathead.
But... found a Juice KF4 to be the most slim tool offering more of what I wanted. It is not too bulky, has just about everything but scissors. Though I don't carry it because it isn't replaceable.

My awlsome Charge is EDC. However the Rebar has stuff on it I like too. Don't really like carrying two tools to do the job of one. Don't want to modify; get highly aggravated aligning them bolts and washers. There has to be a simpler method. Also lack room, tools, and the funds to have someone do it.

Have about a dozen Leatherman tools. Carried a few, yet the bulky heavy ones ended up on the tool shelf. The lighter weight ones were more situational, yet their cuteness wore off and they too are in the tool shelf.
Have a K503x, it's nice except the large bit driver collapses when used and is a worthless addition. It too is on the tool shelf. Had a lighter Expanse knife, though cute and great for cutting steak I ended up giving it to my mom.

At some point or another I have used every tool. Not one tool has everything I want. As with any collection there are some things we carry, others we have nearby.

Of those that I do carry are the Charge for most everything on board - and an awl on standby. yet I also carry the Rebar (presently) for the replaceable wire cutters. Occasionally I swap it out for the Skeletool CX. The Skeletool as a secondary pair of pliers, plier shape has its advantages, and has a fast opening one-handed-opening blade. For fast cutting jobs & secondary pliers the Skeletool is the cat's meow.


That's my Leatherman experience in brief form. 


Had what I thought was a SAK. After posting it here found it was a fake. It got tossed out the car when driving down the highway - though I kept the plastic toothpick.


I don't know much about SAKs. Am optimistic that they can hold up like a Leatherman has proven over the years. If SAK are worth their weight will probably get more for that search for the perfect tool.
Since most of y'all are experts on SAK decided to ask here, first. Am not a fan of corkscrews as I have zero use for one. My resources are also limited, but I hope to repay the kindness in the future. 


Was told to go with what I want, and weeded them out from there.
• Blade, check.
• Awl with a hole, if needed to sew something small with smaller holes I would suffice.
• Seen only today that there is a carabiner on some SAKs - like that option.
• So maybe two blades, one big, one small.
• Toothpick wanted too. Tweezers, meh.
• Ball point pin seems like a cool idea, but was told they are next to worthless, so have to just wonder.
• Corkscrew can hold the eye-glass screw, yet like I stated the corkscrew implement itself is wasted space past that. Why not just have a small screwdriver instead?
• Other screwdrivers aren't a big deal.
• A can opener seems to be a given anymore but I can get by without one.
• The Explorer grabbed me, as past the Swiss Card not many others have a magnifier. As to how functional it is I am only told as a solar ignition device it has a 99% chance of failure. Yet I'm also 51 years old, and dern if my eyes have issues with small print. So whether that would be a good thing to have just in case, why not add it to the list?
- Maybe a credit card sized magnifier would be better, anyone have recommendations or comments on them? Please add. 
• A ring attachment of some sort for a clip option is a good idea, so added that.

Eliminating the corkscrews and the $80+ cost that's how I got the list. 



SAK wise I lack knowledge. Also lacking youth to grow up with one. If they end up being worth their weight will collect more. And I will have ALL YOU to thank for it. 



Do apologize for rambling, but I hope it helps. Now, for the 




Edit: Added bullets to reduce clustering.

[Northern Geek]

Considering that the can opener works just perfectly as a philips driver I think the screwdriver is a lot more useful to have (plus the philips can actually break if you apply too much torque) and not just as a holder for the mini driver. There's plenty of other uses for it.. besides opening wine bottles.

I still stand by my Climber suggestion (or maybe the Compact but you'd loose the awl). Or if you want to go without scissors you could go with the Waiter (knife, combo tool and corkscrew) plus a Rambler/Classic on your keys.

But.. the whole backside philips vs corkscrew debate tend to go either way really.

[Outback in Idaho]

Always seems to be either the corkscrew or phillips back there. Like there has to be something there?? Guess i could just saw it off. 

Rather have the whistle there than either of them two.

[BradGad]

Well, it's always refreshing to come across an open mind!

Maybe I should give Leatherman's another chance.

I don't know much about SAKs. Am optimistic that they can hold up like a Leatherman has proven over the years...

I think they hold up. As my post count shows, I'm new to the forum, but I'm not new to SAKs. Tomorrow I think I'll take some pics of my first SAK and post them up. My dad brought it home as a present from one of his business trips in the late 60's. A Small Tinker. He got at at Abercrombe & Fitch in Manhattan. He and I have been using it moderately steadily since then. That's... lessee... 45 years? Scales have gotten a bit dull, and I was rough on the main blade when I was a kid, but it's in perfect working order.

Am not a fan of corkscrews as I have zero use for one.

And I will refrain from blastergating you with my Corkscrew-over-Phillips lecture. There's a time and place... choose your battles... to each his own... chacun ses gouts... etc. It's nice that we have choices.

• Awl with a hole, if needed to sew something small with smaller holes I would suffice.

I've used the awl to actually sew something once in 45 years. It wasn't an emergency.

If sewing is your concern, put a needle in the pin hole (all modern cellidor models have a pin hole) with a bit of thread wrapped around the head to keep the needle from sliding into the handle, and stash some thread somewhere on your person (in your wallet, wrapped around something on your key chain, etc.).

The awl is an eminently useful tool, even if you never ever end up needing to sew some emergency moccasins from roadkill squirrels. A new hole in a belt or strap... starting the depression for the fire board in a bow drill or hand drill fire making kit... getting crud out of a keyboard... opening packages with heavy tape, so you don't booger up your knife edge... breaking down boxes... ummm.... poking holes in mayonaise lid jars for your kids to catch bugs or make ant farms! 

• So maybe two blades, one big, one small.

Having two blades lets you keep one blade in top shape, Sting sharp, for those special occasions. If you always have one super keen blade, the need for scissors is much reduced (yeah, I'm lookin' at you Smaug): you can cut paper (coupon clipping, wrapping presents) just fine by putting the paper on a flat surface and either drawing the tip over the paper or holding the tip in place and pulling the paper.

• Ball point pin seems like a cool idea, but was told they are next to worthless, so have to just wonder.

The pen is definitely not worthless.

People who say that are talking about how hard it is to write when holding that skinny bit of slick metal for extended writing. They're right, it is hard, but you don't have to do that.

Here's what you do. Take out the pen, open the hook, slide the back end of the pen into the hook's slot, and gently close the hook. Now the knife body acts as a nice fat pen... a clunky Mont Blanc. (So see? There's a reason the pen is only offered stock on models that have the scissors... because the hook is the only backside tool the same thickness as the scissors... and the hook's slot is a pen holder.)

I know you can't abide the corkscrew.... and I said I wouldn't go there... but if your knife doesn't have a hook, the corkscrew slot works pretty well for this. Do the same thing pretty much. Put the pen barrel in the notch where the tip of the corkscrew usually lives. Position the back of the pen so that its butt end will be in the bottom (closest to the hinge) curl of the corkscrew. Close the corkscrew. Then... write the Great American Novel with your pocket knife. It writes just fine.

Here's the other thing... you've read about how we've learned to use one tool as a stand-in for another... The can opener's screwdriver is an excellent Phillips substitute... The combo tool is a sub-mediocre Phillips substitute... The bottle-opener/screwdriver is a decent prybar, as long as you don't go nutso. I've mentioned how the knife can often pull scissor duty. Here are a couple others: the fixed part of the scissors can sub for the reamer, and with careful batoning, the main knife blade can sub for the saw (esp. with 93 mm alox models).

But... some things just don't have an analog, a substitute. Sticking with the models under discussion so far, here are three: the can opener, the corkscrew, and the pen.

But, really, you could just punch through a can lid with the knife (being careful to do it in a way that it doesn't close on your fingers).

And, truth be told, there is a work around the corkscrew (use the bottle opener to push the cork down into the bottle, and just pour with the cork inside the bottle... no big deal).

But how are you going to improvise the pen?  Ummm... you could use the knife to make a bow drill set, start a fire, sharpen a stick with the knife, stick the tip in the fire to carbonize it, and then use that as a crappy pencil... uhh, nah. Don't think you can improvise the pen.

I know, I'm getting wacky with this. But, I think I stand by my point: the pen is a handy item that can't be reasonably subbed with other SAK tools.

• The Explorer grabbed me, as past the Swiss Card not many others have a magnifier. As to how functional it is I am only told as a solar ignition device it has a 99% chance of failure. Yet I'm also 51 years old, and dern if my eyes have issues with small print. So whether that would be a good thing to have just in case, why not add it to the list? - Maybe a credit card sized magnifier would be better, anyone have recommendations or comments on them? Please add.

The magnifier is nifty, no doubt.

Couple points though...

1) If you want one on your knife, your choices are:

Explorer/Explorer Plus: Good knife, but too thick for EDC pocket carry (pocket hanger such as TEK P-7 give a possible out)
SwissChamp/Etc: Too big for the philosophy of use you've described.
Scientist/Yeoman: Wonderful SAKs, but out of production and much sought after by collectors... therefore pricey and scarce.
Custom/Modded: An option.

2) "credit card sized magnifier" .... you can get a good fresnel lens magnifier at Office Depot. It's less than half the thickness of a credit card and it costs about $3. Lives in your wallet so unobtrusively you'll usually forget you have it (I'm your age; I have one in my wallet; I tend to forget I have it...  maybe my mind is going faster than my eyes). Because of its larger surface area, it's better at starting fires than the tiny SAK magnifier.

• A ring attachment of some sort for a clip option is a good idea, so added that.

A clip -- as we've been discussing -- or perhaps a lanyard instead.

A lanyard lets you get at your knife when you're sitting down or driving, and it provides an attachment point for something like this:

http://www.photonlight.com/led-flashlights/photon-freedom-micro-led-keychain-flashlight/

I've found a quality micro flashlight like this to be just about as handy as a SAK. Put the two together and you're really talking. Put the two together by means of a lanyard made of paracord or mil-spec 1A accessory cord, which has a thousand and one emergency (and sub-emergency) uses, and you're pretty much ready to invade Europe.

Do apologize for rambling, but I hope it helps. Now, for the 

Well, I guess I should apoligize too. My response was longer than your ramblings.

Oh, and you should get a Rambler.

The Climber totally rocks.

[Northern Geek]

Always seems to be either the corkscrew or phillips back there. Like there has to be something there?? Guess i could just saw it off. 

Rather have the whistle there than either of them two.

You could just get a Recruit or an alox model?

[nuphoria]

Great "rambing" post above

I would add another recommendation for the Fresnel lens - useful but of kit even though I forget mine is there too