Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales

[Outback in Idaho]

You drilled out the pins in the knife then pinged them over the wooden scales?   

Don't think I'm that brave. Will use a glue or epoxy. 

[Outback in Idaho]

Edrawing viewer for cad viewer or auto desk has one free one too.

For the Free/Trial versions: AutoDesk did not wish to cooperate when printing to a specified size, and the other just wouldn't measure or print.

The pen scale looks like the regular scale, with the added pen channel. Thanks for the effort fellas, is highly appreciated.
The graphics files are immensely valuable. That really helps grasp the visual perspective in 3D-like captures. Perhaps other folks viewing this later on in the years will find them useful too. 



Edit: The PDF file helps a lot as it easily allows for an actual sized print. 

[Outback in Idaho]

  Tagua Nut pieces arrived today, along with a package from Germany - Lowtech delivered goodies. 

  Took a bit of work to get the red off. That's one tough nut. They are thin enough to use a guitar picks, and each one has been drilled near the edge.


 Not sure what sort of red material that coating is. Wonder if it can be soaked in something to remove that red substance? Maybe vinegar, to remove the red dye/coating.

[MultiMat]

Mate that looks GREAT 



Peter any problems with the nut material getting through Oz customs being organic & all that  Does the dye seal it & make it ok to be brought into Oz 

[lowtech]

  Tagua Nut pieces arrived today, along with a package from Germany - Lowtech delivered goodies. 

  Took a bit of work to get the red off. That's one tough nut. They are thin enough to use a guitar picks, and each one has been drilled near the edge.
(Image removed from quote.)

 Not sure what sort of red material that coating is. Wonder if it can be soaked in something to remove that red substance? Maybe vinegar, to remove the red dye/coating.

While i can´t help with the Nut´s coating, i am relieved to hear teh stuff made it safely to your door!
I´m looking forward to read about it in some other thread ;-).

[PTRSAK]

Mate that looks GREAT 

(Image removed from quote.)

Peter any problems with the nut material getting through Oz customs being organic & all that  Does the dye seal it & make it ok to be brought into Oz 

didn't have any problem,  can't remember what they put on the customs declaration.

[Outback in Idaho]

Mate that looks GREAT 

Peter any problems with the nut material getting through Oz customs being organic & all that  Does the dye seal it & make it ok to be brought into Oz 

didn't have any problem,  can't remember what they put on the customs declaration.

Any secrets to getting the red dye off? That stuff is thick!

Heard not to soak the pieces as they can split and pull apart after gluing. Didn't read that before soaking two test pieces in white vinegar. The pieces came out with a slight spoon-shape to them but the dye did not budge.
Also read the nut is quite porous and absorbs.

Did you oil it or rub a varnish the scales? I was considering a satin varnish finish.


Waiting for the wood. Thinking of going with one of these two crosses, or a roo. Undecided yet.
Could put the roo on the fat end, but not sure. This is my first time making SAK scales.


Note: That's what a Tagua Nut looks like. Read they aren't more than egg sized. The tree is a palm.

[PTRSAK]

the dye isn't thick, but it has soaked into the surface. When I did the inlay it was only to about 2/3of the thickness of the "ivory" so all the red got sanded off when I was shaping the scales.

[Outback in Idaho]

  Found out that the White Tagua Nut Slices are not dyed nor have any coating on them. Can save time on the whole 'sanding that thick dye off'.

Yes, Tagua Slices White is natural color. Not coated with any dyes.

  Silky Oak blanks arrived from Turning Timbers of Australia




  Still awaiting the 1.5mm x 2mm flat round neodymium magnets.    Amazon/Magnetman

[Outback in Idaho]

  Had just enough width to cut two scale blocks.



  Used the Leatherman Rebar as its saw blade was only a hair more thicker than an hacksaw blade. Also allows me to cut long and more straight than with a coping saw - which I don't have on hand.



  Will potentially have two pairs of scales once cutting their width in half. Went ahead and sacrificed the cellidor scales of a Spartan to use as a physical template.

  As I was laying the cellidor scales over the wooden blocks I noticed a small issue. The pen's thumb-nick (head) is not shaped in the expected position.

  Flipping over the pen with the flat side facing upwards...


  As opposed to what looks correct on the other scale facing as it would fit, flat side down.


  So, umm... did the pen thumb-nick get changed recently? Or are there now two versions of scale pens??

  Pen, curved side facing up...


  Pen turned to one side.



   Though this is a minor issue am starting to wonder which scale to put the pen channel in. The tweezer scale, both scales, or put the toothpick & tweezers on one and pen on the other?

[Outback in Idaho]

  How to insert the pen into the scale slot. For those that have never seen a Plus scale pen slot. Courtesy of PTRSAK for using his photo.



  Question: Are the Plus scales thicker than the standard scales, to make room for the thickness of the pen?

[WiSAKfan]

  How to insert the pen into the scale slot. For those that have never seen a Plus scale pen slot. Courtesy of PTRSAK for using his photo.
(Image removed from quote.)


  Question: Are the Plus scales thicker than the standard scales, to make room for the thickness of the pen?

yes they are thicker.

[Outback in Idaho]

  How do you all create the holes for the scales? Are they a loose, tight, or more of a snap-friction fit over the brass rivets? And do you only glue or epoxy the rivets and nothing else?

  Am still figuring an inlay. Will have to either battle the red dye substance, or wait for the undyed to arrive before doing much of anything else. Wanting to get plans laid out beforehand. 
  Should be working on the templates for said holes tomorrow. Then figure a method to create a curved channel for the pen. Not sure if any store has that small of a rat tail file here locally.

  Wishing had some spare/scrap 91mm aluminum scales or liners to use for templates. That would really be the bees knees!

  Still waiting on the magnets to arrive... Had read a feedback where one other person ordered magnets & they had arrived 3 weeks later.


PS: How thick are the Plus scales?

[Outback in Idaho]

  Trying to find Tung Seed Oil proved elusive today. There was that fake Minwax stuff at Home Depot, yet no one here had the real juice. Two stores did have boiled Linseed oil. Yet to get the real McCoy had to place yet another online order. Found a 2 ounce bottle of it on Amazon, for $4.




  While at Home Depot picked up a few supplies: Locktite epoxy gel, drill bits, sandpaper, Elmer's wood glue (mix with sawdust for filler if needed). Also found a manual sliding caliper in mm & inch measures for $8.

[jerseydevil]

  Trying to find Tung Seed Oil proved elusive today.

A bit off topic but if anyone in the US needs supplies for finishing wooden scales like these, let me know.  It's what I sell for a living, and I can get a good price on all sorts of stains and finishes.    Sorry but I'm sure I wouldn't be able to ship overseas.... 

[Outback in Idaho]

  Trying to find Tung Seed Oil proved elusive today.

A bit off topic but if anyone in the US needs supplies for finishing wooden scales like these, let me know.  It's what I sell for a living, and I can get a good price on all sorts of stains and finishes.    Sorry but I'm sure I wouldn't be able to ship overseas.... 

  Rats, wished I knew sooner. Live in Idaho myself. Only my inner essence lives in Australia. 

[Outback in Idaho]

  Was trying to get two sets of scales out of the first blank, and guess I did not not allow enough working room.



  As was fitting the first set of scales to the Spartan's pivots. Fit the top side along right on the metal edge, then looked at the bottom and can see maybe 1/16" of metal.





  Could mix some glue and sawdust to help fill those minute areas, or cut a few thin strips then glue along the edge and work it down. Not sure where our clamps are packed. Put so much into this project, trying to work slowly and carefully... then this.


  Looked at the second set and them too look like they will be affected the same. Though I cannot achieve perfection I do try to be close enough and to allow room to work with. As such have one other blank to cut. But...

  Do I try and offset them to cut two more blanks, or..


  Just cut one for my main knife and hope it works out better. May end up having to buy a hacksaw thin wood cutting blade. Hate not having a shop to work in. Did not think this was going to be so complicated. 

[Outback in Idaho]

  Took some strips of wood out of a square left-over block, and used Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue to stick them on those bare edges. Once that set to a handling state went ahead and added more glue, pressing it into the corners and gaps with a small flat screwdriver. Followed by silk oak sawdust squeezed into the glue.

  Will let those sit till some time tomorrow and work them down. Not fond of doing it this way but it should work. Is how I repaired chips in wooden boomerangs. Since the scale parts are on the bottom and on the edge it shouldn't show up.

  Undecided as whether to do the same with the other scales, or cut a new set allowing plenty of room to work. If I do cut another set there will be working room and then some.

[Outback in Idaho]

  After getting some rest went searching for a C clamp. Luckily found a framing clamp, which is better. The gluing process is going to take a full day for drying time. Since the edges will be filed down anyhow, this extra strip laminate should blend in - depending upon the grain.

  Had a 3" block of spare material I have been using to cut strips from. Using Elmer's Carpenter wood glue I added strips to the edges, then clamped them down firmly.




  Adding glue, then clamping


  Waited for the glue to set some before adding more glue along the corner. Pushed the glue into the corner crevice with a small screwdriver. Covered with sawdust, pressed in firmly with thumb. Brushed off excess sawdust for the remaining strips.


  Then wait 8 to 12 hours for drying time.     Will take this extra material off with a Dremel sandpaper roll, then flatten the final amount down with a crosscut file before proceeding.

[Outback in Idaho]

  Added the strips, on the first set of scales that I am using for practice. Filed and sanded them down. Starting to realize I should replace my work desk some day... only had it since... mid 90's. 

  Last I left with some rather hairy scales and a frame clamp. Those scales are still drying, and working with these to see how the wood works. Dremel really chews through it, yet by hand it takes a bit of work. Been using the Leatherman Rebar saw & file through most of this project.

  Here is a before and after photo of the scales.

  Didn't take photo on mouse-pad so won't have to clean out the artifacts again.



  This scale fit like a glove on my Climber, and used it to pose in the photos. Here's a view from the other side of the wood scale. The 3/32" of bare metal is no longer showing, and cannot see the glued strips either. 





  Now from the other side. Only showing this scale, the next set of photo(s) may be the inlay if I try it. Waiting on the materials as I don't want to mess with that icky dye substance. It gums up my files and sand paper.

  Am concerned about one report of the tagua nut as vegetable ivory. Heard that it can deteriorate or pop out after a year. Don't want to keep in a wet environment either as it is biodegradable.





  Might be a few days before the next post as the plain tagua nuts have not arrived, nor the magnets. And the Tung oil was just ordered last night. The nut pieces left DUNELLEN, NJ on the 9th and claim they will be in Boise, ID today. If so, might tackle that ivory part next sooner.

  Anyone have a good and simple Spartan helmet inlay design to share? Would be the cat's whiskers for the scale. 

[Outback in Idaho]

  Worked on a small Spartan like helm using the red dyed tagua nut, scraping out a hole, then... *** SNAP! *** Don't have the room or tools to work on something so small, and so brittle. Figured the nut would have been stiffer than it is.
  Glued it onto some backing to work with and broke another piece. Am taking it as an omen and not pursuing inlays with tagua nut any further. Maybe if I had some thin synthetic material to work with, or metal.

  So going to stick with just the wood scales.

  Attached was the idea was going with. The yellow was when had it glued to cardboard hoping to save it. It broke again since then and don't have the patience for it.

[Outback in Idaho]

  Got creative again tonight with the first set of scales for the Spartan. No magnets or tung oil to finish it, so final sanding and preparation for another day. Must remember to put the pin channel in too.

  Used the Leatherman Charge TTi's file & Rebar Saw, and a 3/32" drill bit to gain some depth. Things are tight in there! Had to take it slow and easy.



  Showing the channels, done by hand.



  Tools laying in channels. Notched out the plastic ^ on the toothpick too. 



  Tweezers side. Too much spring to slide them under the scales.



  Corkscrew side with tools slid in.



  Once I get more materials in will make an update. Since am working with wood I had ordered 1.5mm x 2.mm flat round magnets to hold the tools in better. May go ahead and start the 2nd set for the Climber one of these nights.

  Debating on how to seal the inner scale sides to allow me to apply epoxy to the bolts. If am going to use oil, would probably need to pick up some sort of sealant, right?

[PTRSAK]

try mixing up a little of your epoxy and thin it with some metho or rubbing alcohol, not too much, just enough to make it runny so you can paint it on.

[Outback in Idaho]

try mixing up a little of your epoxy and thin it with some metho or rubbing alcohol, not too much, just enough to make it runny so you can paint it on.

  Awesome idea! Wouldn't of thought about that.

  Someone posted some feedback on Dremel's facebook page. These look nice but think am going to pass on them for now. The information might help others.

  Lee Valley - Carbide Burr Set, Set of 8
  These eight small carbide burrs can be used on any steel, steel alloy, or non-ferrous metal.
  Useful for detail work on hardwoods, tagua, bone, etc. 3/32" shanks. 1-3/4" long.
 

[Outback in Idaho]

  The miniature neodymium magnets arrived!! The shipper sent 60 of the lil' buggers! 
  Along with some natural Tagua Nut. Think the vegetable ivory will be too pale for the Silk Oak wood am using though. May have to stash them for another time, or find a home for them. 



  Now the fun begins. Hopefully the 100% Tung Oil will arrive by the weekend.

  Oh, after measuring the scales, seems the second set is at 4mm. That's going to be a close call to sneak a pen slot in since a pen is 2.5 mm thick. Will see. The grain is more attractive than my first set too.


For future reference:
  Since the polarity is across the flat surface of a magnet, keep the width down to 2mm or less. 3mm wide means a 3mm deep hole into the scale material if you want a specific polarity.
  To maneuver the magnet use the end of a straight pin or a fine finishing nail. File the head to a more flat surface if needed, as straight pins have a ^ type of head.

[Outback in Idaho]

  Fist set of scales are about done past sealing and finishing, but I am not satisfied with them being so thin. Both scales are around 4.5mm to 5mm. The pen is really close to the surface, can feel the pressure when working that channel. Feeling the file is not a good sign. There should be more space there.
  However the tweezers side is about good on space. But want to keep both scales the same width, yet don't want a fat knife either. What to do...

  Other scales are 5mm thick on average, which are ready to be worked out. this means the top & bottom of one scale would be very light sanding if am going to make the clearance.
  Another option would be is to kick the toothpick out and just go with tweezers on one scale, pen on the other scale. May go with that and see how it holds up.

  Blank is 11mm thick. Have no mechanical means of reducing the width to 7mm.

  What the issue was trying to save the wood by trying to get two sets of scales out it. Giving the saw blade width that cut things way too close. Ended up having to add side strips. Adding material to the sides was not hard, but it still entailed using glue.
  Width on the other hand. 11mm, cut in half, 1mm thick saw blade, gave 5mm. Once on starts flattening and sanding that 5mm turned to near 4mm, and thus there's just not enough material to last years down the road. One bad fall would result in a cracked scale.


  Corkscrew is 7.5mm wide. From the spacer to the outside it is 4.5mm. Shouldn't the scale should be at least 4.5mm to match, or 5mm?



  Anyone have a 91mm Plus scale laying around, and could measure it's average thickness for me?


  have found out the neodymium magnets can be files down with a diamond file.   

[Outback in Idaho]

  Showing the current status of the  first set of 91mm Plus 'Silk Oak' scales, average 4.5mm thickness.

  Top View



  Inside Overview



  Inside - Low Profile

[PTRSAK]

Basic shape roughed in.  Burled Yellow Box.  (not oiled yet, just a bit of water on them to show the grain)
These are for a sportsman/tourist/small-tinker, not decided which they are going on yet.

Got these and another pair out of one slab with enough to do several 58mms as well.
Will cut some 91mm scales out of the other slab.

[Outback in Idaho]

  How thick are your scales?

[Outback in Idaho]

  Going to bed aggravated. The second set was too thin. Have another 11m blank that am going to stagger cut and somehow take down 4mm while working with it. So smurfin' let-down, broke the scales.

  The diagonal pen idea was working out but it also made the 4mm scale too weak. 1.5 mm is not enough room for structural integrity.

  RIP secondary set.