Definition of Handmade knives?

Grathr · **on:** February 24, 2013, 11:23:15 AM

I regularly see knives that are branded "Handmade". But what does handmade mean?
Can you call a hand assembled knife handmade? If so, pretty much every MT and folding knife are handmade.
A knife that has been forged from a steel rod by a person with a fire and a hammer, with a handle whittled by a person with a knife, espescially made for that blade, is ofcourse handmade.
But when does it stop beeing handmade?
Is it still handmade when the blade has been cut out by a machine, but has been sharpened by a person on a grinder?
Can you call a knife with a cast plastic handle handmade, when the handle clearly has been mass produced by a machine, but the blade has been sharpened, fitted and assembled by a person?

What is your opinion about this? Where does the line between hand assembled and handmade go?

Gareth · **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2013, 11:38:39 AM

Tricky question.

My gut says that the large majority of the work has to be done with an element of skill, where the human involvement means the difference between success and failure.

So; pressing a button on a CNC is obviously not hand made, but Gransfors Bruk using a steam hammer would still pass as hand made IMO as they could still screw it up.

Not sure if that really covers it, but it's the best I can think of ATM.

AimlessWanderer · **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2013, 12:01:18 PM

For me handmade involves one, or at least a small number of craftmen, cutlers who have had some form of apprecnticeship (even if self taught) and involves having to make or modify the pieces in assembly. If all the pieces are finished and simply need a pair of hands to bolt everything together together - that's factory made!

I think there are sub-categories too, such as hand finished. These would be knives where the blades and/or backspring for example are factory made, the scales are pre-cut oversize blanks, and after knocking up the knife needs a good once over on a linisher (by hand) to get it in a presentable form. A lot of traditional slippies fall in this category

Outback in Idaho · **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2013, 01:24:03 PM

Made by hand with care, craftsmanship, pride. Not by machines.

Hand tools may have been made by machines, but that is far different. Now when it comes to a Dremel, though it is a machine, it cannot do anything on its own nor can be programmed without outside means. Items crafted from that would be considered hand made as it was the person's hands & interpretation that created such an item. The outcome still requires skill, patience, knowledge, care, and such.

The same tools used buy a soulless contraption that cannot think on its own would not be hand crafted. Even though it may or may not have a human controller, and could still be ruined, is not hand made. Where it ends up on an assembly line, if assembled by humans it could be considered as hand assembled - much like the way Leatherman & SAK tools are made.

Grathr · **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2013, 05:45:15 PM

Ok.
So far a handmade knife is a knife that has been shaped by a person using skill and experience. To use machine tools is allowed as long as its the person that is doing the shaping. Like a person manually grinding the bevel and edge on a rotating grinder. The same thing applies for the handle, that has to be shaped by a person.

Would you then define a pocketknife that has a blade stamped out by a machine, that has been ground and sharpened by a person, with machine made bolsters, but with handcrafted bone scales and assembled by a person, a handmade knife?

Gareth · **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2013, 07:22:44 PM

Quote from: Grathr on February 24, 2013, 05:45:15 PM

Ok.
So far a handmade knife is a knife that has been shaped by a person using skill and experience. To use machine tools is allowed as long as its the person that is doing the shaping. Like a person manually grinding the bevel and edge on a rotating grinder. The same thing applies for the handle, that has to be shaped by a person.

Would you then define a pocketknife that has a blade stamped out by a machine, that has been ground and sharpened by a person, with machine made bolsters, but with handcrafted bone scales and assembled by a person, a handmade knife?

That really is where it gets tricky isn't it? I'd be tempted to put that into Al's "hand finished" category myself, but it's definitely close. If someone wanted to sell that knife as hand made, I'm not sure I'd say they were wrong to to so.

Grathr · **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2013, 07:36:39 PM

Quote from: Gareth on February 24, 2013, 07:22:44 PM

Quote from: Grathr on February 24, 2013, 05:45:15 PM
Ok.
So far a handmade knife is a knife that has been shaped by a person using skill and experience. To use machine tools is allowed as long as its the person that is doing the shaping. Like a person manually grinding the bevel and edge on a rotating grinder. The same thing applies for the handle, that has to be shaped by a person.

Would you then define a pocketknife that has a blade stamped out by a machine, that has been ground and sharpened by a person, with machine made bolsters, but with handcrafted bone scales and assembled by a person, a handmade knife?

That really is where it gets tricky isn't it? I'd be tempted to put that into Al's "hand finished" category myself, but it's definitely close. If someone wanted to sell that knife as hand made, I'm not sure I'd say they were wrong to to so.

Hand finished sounds like category the industry should use. But handmade sounds better I guess.

David · **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2013, 07:43:50 PM

This topic is a real can of worms. I've seen this discussed many times and every one has their own opinion. Hopefully everyone will be respectful of others thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Grathr · **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2013, 07:56:59 PM

Quote from: David on February 24, 2013, 07:43:50 PM

This topic is a real can of worms. I've seen this discussed many times and every one has their own opinion. Hopefully everyone will be respectful of others thoughts and opinions on this subject.

I asked the question because I want to see what the other people on this forum think about this subject. So far evereyone has been playing nicely, and been surprisingly uniform in their opinions.

David · **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2013, 10:23:12 PM

Quote from: Grathr on February 24, 2013, 07:56:59 PM

Quote from: David on February 24, 2013, 07:43:50 PM
This topic is a real can of worms. I've seen this discussed many times and every one has their own opinion. Hopefully everyone will be respectful of others thoughts and opinions on this subject.

I asked the question because I want to see what the other people on this forum think about this subject. So far evereyone has been playing nicely, and been surprisingly uniform in their opinions.

We seldom get out of hand arond here. But I've seen this and similar topics get really carried away on other forums. For some reason this is a real hot button for some folks. Name calling, mud slinging, getting banned and the thread being locked were the order of the day.

Outback in Idaho · **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2013, 10:55:49 PM

Old world smithed blade with handcrafted wood scales. Or Reconditioned or Reshaped blade on a mahogany crafted handle, hand rubbed with 100% olive oil obtained by local orchards.
Keep It Simply Simple works too.

One just has to use their head and be honest about it, while not trying to exploit a feature for better sales. Do you want great feedback and returned customers? Would you want to become well known and admired for your crafts down the road? Honesty & integrity will carry with you even when you aren't looking.

Styerman · **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2013, 01:12:04 AM

I would say "Artisan " made would apply more with modern custom pieces . Most modern custom pieces are made with drill presses , beltgrinders etc . All the steps , being done under the same roof , by a limited number of skilled people . Often , things like heat treat , water jet cutting , and engraving are subbed out to other small shops .

Probably , the only place you find true handmade knives , would be the prison system .

Chris

dks · **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2013, 11:02:09 AM

There was a similar discussion in BF or BBF in the last few days, though I cannot find the exact thread. The discussion centred at the various UK makers and whether some knives were just hand-assembled or hand-fitted rather than actually hand made.

Most people will assume that hand made will mean that the whole knife, including the shaping and heat treatment of the blade will be done by hand, in a small shop by a few experienced workers.
However some makers will use machines too so the level of hand use will vary. Does grinding a blade with a machine or heat treating it with a special oven make a knife less hand made?

Many makers will, also, buy ready-made blades from a larger blank maker and concentrate on the rest of the knife, and sometimes the heat treatment.

You also have kits being sold by, for example, Rough Rider that can be assembled and finished by hand… Are they hand made?

The question is what percentage and what part of the whole construction has to be done by hand to say it is hand made. Personally I consider e.g. higonokami knives as hand made, but others may disagree and consider them hand finished or hand assembled..

Incidentally, similar discussions occur with other items too, like cigars, where hand made will mean hand finished or totally hand made or that the tobacco was hand selected or hand bunched and so on, depending on the company.

Personally I care about the final product. SAKs are not hand made but are inspected by humans too so that the product is consistently good. A hand made knife which has off centred blades, huge gaps, bad heat treatment and so on, should not be valued more because it is hand made.