Best Bolt Action Service Rifle.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Ok I'm sure there's a couple of rifle types I've miss but what is your favourite Bolt Action battle Rifle

Say for the sake of argument that you were going to have to fight in a war and one of the list of the above would become your weapon for the duration of that conflict what would you choose and why

For my part and with honestly no patriotic sentiment, I'd go for the Lee Enfield everytime. rugged, reliable, as accurate as it's piers at normal combat ranges 300-400 metres, the fastest action on any bolt gun and a beautiful 10 round magazine, for when thing start getting sticky , plus solid enough to be useful as a melee weapon.



vs

(to my mind the guy's cheating )

All in all a beautiful weapon, if a little heavy.

I'm happy to add any rifle's to the list, but let's try and keep unpure semi automatics out of it gentleman

[J-sews]

I've not handled every one on your list, but of the five I've fired, the Smelly is the best! (for the same reasons you mentioned Mike)

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I've not handled every one on your list, but of the five I've fired, the Smelly is the best! (for the same reasons you mentioned Mike)

Good man , what were the other 4 mate?

[J-sews]

A buddy I've known for years owned a '98 Mauser and a 30-06 Springfield and an SMLE. Fine guns all of them, although the 8mm was a late-war model that wasn't built to the same high early war standards. The 303 was WWI vintage. I still have a vision of the rear battle site in my mind. The machine work on it was exquisite.

Anyhow, he's since sold them both and is into semi-autos, but not before aflicting a second friend with the old-military-bolt-action bug. This fellow has a Moisen Nagant that he still owns. The stock on it is very dark, almost black, from age and oil.   

Lastly was a 30-40 Krag that my wife's grandfather used for deer hunting. He passed away several years ago and left the rifle to his son. I fired it a few times at deer camp long ago. The side-loading magazine stuck right out in my face, me being a lefty.

[ringzero]

Say for the sake of argument that you were going to have to fight in a war and one of the list of the above would become your weapon for the duration of that conflict what would you choose and why

I've had a SMLE and a Springfield.

The action was way better on the SMLE and its detachable box magazine is an advantage for combat scenarios.

Supposedly the Springfield (which is actually a modified Mauser) has a stronger bolt action and is potentially more accurate.

Both rifles were more accurate than my ability to shoot them.

So, I guess I'd go with the SMLE for actual combat due to its slicker action and box mag.  And now that I recall, I liked the SMLE sights better also.

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[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

The Krag was a strange rifle , you really do get the idea that they were just trying to invent something to get around the Mauser/Manlicher patents

Well you've shot more military bolt guns than me , to date I've only shot a few different marks of Lee Enfield, an K98 (vicious thing) and a Mosin Nagant M1944 Carbine (VERY BLOODY VICIOUS THING)

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

So, I guess I'd go with the SMLE for actual combat due to its slicker action and box mag.  And now that I recall, I liked the SMLE sights better also.

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Which type sight did your Lee have mate, rear leaf or appeture?

[ringzero]

Which type sight did your Lee have mate, rear leaf or appeture?

I've had both types, at one time or another.

It's been long enough that I can't recall their proper designations - I'd have to look them up in "Small Arms of the World."

I also owned a Carcano - which isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.  Lighter and handier than the SMLE and Springfield.  Picked it up for only $30 IIRC.

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[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Which type sight did your Lee have mate, rear leaf or appeture?

I've had both types, at one time or another.

It's been long enough that I can't recall their proper designations - I'd have to look them up in "Small Arms of the World."

I also owned a Carcano - which isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.  Lighter and handier than the SMLE and Springfield.  Picked it up for only $30 IIRC.

.

The Ian V Hogg/John Weeks book , yep I've got a copy too

Well it was good enough to kill presidents (unless your a conspiricy theorist).

[ringzero]

The Ian V Hogg/John Weeks book , yep I've got a copy too

Well it was good enough to kill presidents (unless your a conspiricy theorist).

Great book, isn't it?  Tempted me into spending lots money on obscure firearms to pick up my own little pieces of history.

Encouraged me to buy a Polish Radom 9mm, a Spanish Astra 9mm, and many others.

Supposedly the Italians called the Carcano "the little rifle that never hurt anyone" - don't know if that's really true.

.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

The Ian V Hogg/John Weeks book , yep I've got a copy too

Well it was good enough to kill presidents (unless your a conspiricy theorist).

Great book, isn't it?  Tempted me into spending lots money on obscure firearms to pick up my own little pieces of history.

Encouraged me to buy a Polish Radom 9mm, a Spanish Astra 9mm, and many others.

Supposedly the Italians called the Carcano "the little rifle that never hurt anyone" - don't know if that's really true.

.

I can see where the Italians are comming from, 6.5 doesn't sound much when everyone else is flinging 7mm+ about, and I would imagine the recoil is a lot tamer too

Good on you for keeping a little bit of history alive too

[ringzero]

I can see where the Italians are comming from, 6.5 doesn't sound much when everyone else is flinging 7mm+ about, and I would imagine the recoil is a lot tamer too

It may be the Italians were actually ahead of everyone else.

I suspect the Carcano would be pretty darn decisive on human targets out to a few hundred yards - lots of people bought them in the US for cheap deer rifles.

The SMLE and Springfield were about optimum for WWI trench warfare where opponents were dug in, shooting at one another across several hundred of yards of no man's land.

During WW2 and certainly afterward, practically everyone went to lighter, smaller caliber rifles because:
-long range rifle duels are the exception rather than the rule in modern war
-lighter rifles are handier and easier to carry
-smaller caliber means more ammo can be carried

Good on you for keeping a little bit of history alive too

Somebody's got to do it.  ;>

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[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

True, the Italians, Japanesse and the Russians were ahead of the game in introducing 6.5 cartridges, I don't think it was until 1941 that the Germans invented the modern intermediate round, the 7.9 x 33 kurtz, but I stand to be corrected on that

[ringzero]

True, the Italians, Japanesse and the Russians were ahead of the game in introducing 6.5 cartridges, I don't think it was until 1941 that the Germans invented the modern intermediate round, the 7.9 x 33 kurtz, but I stand to be corrected on that

Not sure of the exact date but sounds about right.

Nevertheless, the vast majority of German soldiers who went into Russia in 1941 were carrying bolt action rifles.

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[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

True, the Italians, Japanesse and the Russians were ahead of the game in introducing 6.5 cartridges, I don't think it was until 1941 that the Germans invented the modern intermediate round, the 7.9 x 33 kurtz, but I stand to be corrected on that

Not sure of the exact date but sounds about right.

Nevertheless, the vast majority of German soldiers who went into Russia in 1941 were carrying bolt action rifles.

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That they did, but at least they would work in all the condition's faced in Russia

[ducktapehero]

Lee-Enfield. IMHO The super slick action and higher capacity makes it the finest bolt action combat rifle ever developed.

[Biru]

I have an Enfield WWI vintage I believe and did have a Japanese 7.7. The 7.7 had a slightly shorter stock from shoulder to the back of the bolt. As I'm average height, but lanky, when fired that star safety at the back of the bolt would come charging back at my nose, bloodying it one or two times. It was FAR rougher than the Enfield. My Enfield has seen heavy use and is still smooth as glass. It cycles like the day it came off the line, kicks like a horse and shoots very accurately. Shooting modern ammo in it worries me a bit. It's a short carbine and would be a superb hunting rifle if I did that. The Japanese 7.7 nearly drove me crazy once when I accidentally put the safety on and couldn't figure out how to disengage it.

[665ae]

I'm not much into the old service rifles... I like newer stuff...

Like the M40A3

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I have an Enfield WWI vintage I believe and did have a Japanese 7.7. The 7.7 had a slightly shorter stock from shoulder to the back of the bolt. As I'm average height, but lanky, when fired that star safety at the back of the bolt would come charging back at my nose, bloodying it one or two times. It was FAR rougher than the Enfield. My Enfield has seen heavy use and is still smooth as glass. It cycles like the day it came off the line, kicks like a horse and shoots very accurately. Shooting modern ammo in it worries me a bit. It's a short carbine and would be a superb hunting rifle if I did that. The Japanese 7.7 nearly drove me crazy once when I accidentally put the safety on and couldn't figure out how to disengage it.

I always though the recoil wasn't to bad on the Enfield, more of a shove compared too the Mausers kick, but then maybe the ex war stock .303 was past it's best

Mikey, I didn't include modern stuff like the M40, L42 and L96 because I figured they were speSmurfpillst weapons, in the hand's of highly skilled professionals , service rifles on the other hand were handed out to idiots like me, who'd treat them like crap

[I'm Still Bison]

Anybody ever handle one of the Swedish Mausers? Beautiful workmanship on every example I ever owned or handled.The 6.5X55 cartridge is one of the finest rounds ever developed IMHO.If I had to make a pecking order of the best made Mausers,I'd have a 3 way tie for first...the original Mausers,The Swedes,and the Czechs.

For SMLE's I've only owned a MKI No.3 made at Lithgow,and a MkI No.4,and my preference is the MKI No.3.It may never win prizes for esthetics,but it's a tough battle rifle;if I had to go to war in the bolt action era,with a bolt action,it would be with the Enfield.James Parris Lee,a Scottish born American designed it and one of the rarest of military rifles..the Lee-Navy straight pull chambered in 6mm,all of which were manufactured by Winchester.
If I had my druthers for going to war back then..it would've been the Winchester 95 lever action chambered in 30.06.

[Biru]

The point on recoil is true. The Arisaka kicked but mostly was tiring because it had a big steel strike plate on the butt. One thing I've never tried and probably need to figure out is how to disassemble the Enfield. My bolt has a small extension which wraps around a receptacle cut into the slide bed. I may look at it today just for kicks. I need to check which model I have.

Good Weekend, Bill.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I've never shot, or seen a Swedish Mauser, but I've heard enough praise heaped upon them to belive that there more than a little special

I'll look forward to finding out what model you've got Bill

[Leatherman123]

665ae, I am with you on that one! Another amazing new rifle is the Fulton Armory Troy Industries MCR .308. That is a great weapon!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

665ae, I am with you on that one! Another amazing new rifle is the Fulton Armory Troy Industries MCR .308. That is a great weapon!

, it's an automatic , this is a bolt gun thread

[Biru]

You know, until this thread I had never really looked at this rifle. It's probably later than I thought. The markings on the steel band which separates the shoulder stock from the forestock/trigger area are : "SMLE III  1919" and the safety lever has "III" on it. The receiver has "?8.5 Tons", "HM???" "303" and a crown and sword emblem. There are strike marks all over the receiver. The question marks are numbers or letters which I can't quite make out.  It's a short carbine without the wooden barrel covers (in other words, it looks much like a current Remington 700-type rifle, but maybe a bit shorter and with a very tapered barrel). I'll try and see if I can get a pic tomorrow.  The thing I always liked about this rifle was the way you can lower the bolt striker manually like the hammer of a pistol. I also liked it from the Breaker's line in "Breaker Morant"  concerning his dealing with the Boers: "...Rules, Sir? We applied rule .303, Sir...We used rule .303." Edward Woodward could read a telephone book to me and I'd pay for it!

Regards, Bill.

[Leatherman123]

I am aware... But, its a GREAT weapon!

[J-sews]

So of all the bolt rifles on Micky's list, which one went the longest as it's nation's standard service rifle?

[ducktapehero]

So of all the bolt rifles on Micky's list, which one went the longest as it's nation's standard service rifle?

I would think it would be the UK and their Lee-Enfield's. According to Wikipedia it was standard issue for over 60 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I also liked it from the Breaker's line in "Breaker Morant"  concerning his dealing with the Boers: "...Rules, Sir? We applied rule .303, Sir...We used rule .303." Edward Woodward could read a telephone book to me and I'd pay for it!

Regards, Bill.

That was a great film

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

So of all the bolt rifles on Micky's list, which one went the longest as it's nation's standard service rifle?

I'd go with enfield too, and it's still being used by insurgents in Afganistan and Iraq.