Black Oxide Question?

prime77 · **on:** December 11, 2006, 02:33:26 AM

I understand that Black Oxide is a coating on the tools, but how thick is the coating? Does the coating make it any more difficult to get the tools out because they are thicker? Just wondering?

David Bowen · **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2006, 03:48:39 PM

Once again, a thread going by with no replies. 13 people read this question and no one posted an answer....does anyone not know the answer? does no one own any black oxide coated tools? Or are there are bunch of you guests out there that need to create a screen name and participate? Seriously folks, this is great place to learn and to share our knowledge of tools and the more the merrier, and it cannot be done without participation as a whole....... Anyways

I PERSONALLY do not own any coated tools Prime77 but I would gather that the coating is so thin I would not interfere with the tools rubbing against each other and what not, the overall thickness of the coating is probably minimal, I am sure J-Sews probably has the answer to this question. BO is probably alot in nature to TiNi coating on tools, so thin it's like a second skin but very wear resistant....well BO is not no where near as resistant as TiNi but you get the general idea....Least I tried.

David

David Bowen · **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2006, 04:05:02 PM

I was able to google this for you...

Black Oxide is a chemical surface conversion of metals forming an integral protective surface, while maintaining the dimensional integrity of the part. Along with a post treatment, corrosion resistance of 72 to 144 salt spray hours is possible.

never looked it up before, I have seen some tools (not multitool) cover in BO and the coating wasn't very thick on them.

David

prime77 · **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2006, 07:08:33 PM

Thanks

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2006, 09:30:37 PM

The short answer (and I was waiting for someone else to post, since I don't want to look like a smarty-pants) is no. The coating is not thich enough to affect the movement, and in the odd cases where it is, it's usually removed around the pivot areas so it won't affect the blades.

Def

Stormdrane · **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2006, 12:02:45 AM

Having had this Gerber since the early/mid '90s, the coating has held up well although the tool has seen only light use and I'm sure it'd wear off with more use. The most wear it's shown is actually from being slid in/out of the sheath at the pivot points. I had the identical Gerber in stainless and the tools clumped the same when trying to pull just one out, so I don't believe the coating is thick enough to make a difference in that respect. I think besides looking cool, the black oxide coating does add to corrosion resistance, but I'd still do preventative maintenance with Tuf-Glide or whatever your lubricant of choice may be as I use on all my tools/knives/metal gadgets.

CQC-7 · **Reply #6 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:01:45 AM

Black coating in my experience has never had an effect on the blades of my multi tools. Other than the fact that it wears with time eventually it doesent affect the function. I have put the black finish to the test after carrying several equipped tools and knives in some pretty harsh conditions. Personally, the only benefit is rust prevention. However, this is not a substitute for good old care of your tools.

J-sews · **Reply #7 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:21:12 AM

I was trying to avoid smarty-pants syndrome on this one too, sorry prime!

Dave has the technical facts exactly correct, but maybe some translation is in order?

"Black Oxide is a chemical surface conversion of metals forming an integral protective surface, while maintaining the dimensional integrity of the part." means that it is not truly a coating at all. True black oxide is actually an oxidation (i.e. rust) that changes the color of the surface metal itself. No build-up or size changes occur. Blued or blackened firearms are a common example of this oxidation method.

HOWEVER, not all of the black colored tools and knives on the market are true "black oxide." My theory is that the use of stainless steel does not lend itself very well to oxidation. So some (maybe all?) companies do in fact use black-colored coatings. Black Leatherman tools, for instance, will leave some sort of black stains when I wipe my finger along the inside of the blade channel. (true black oxide would not leave stains). SOG is another example, as some of their multi tools were sold with a black TiNi plating (instead of the more common gold TiNi.)

Bottom line though is that regardless of whether it's black oxide or black plating or black coating, none of them seem to affect function in any noticable way.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #8 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:28:55 AM

Bob's a smarty pants!

Def

J-sews · **Reply #9 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:38:42 AM

I plead guilty as charged, your honor.

Stormdrane · **Reply #10 on:** December 12, 2006, 04:19:35 AM

Here are a couple of related links:

The Basics of Black Oxide

Do-It-Yourself Cold Blackening

J-sews · **Reply #11 on:** December 12, 2006, 04:26:49 AM

So according to The Basics of Black Oxide, I've been using my finger to conduct "Smut Tests" on my tool?

(I'd appreciate it if you guys didn't tell anyone about that.....)

David Bowen · **Reply #12 on:** December 12, 2006, 05:24:44 AM

I couldn't take it, I had to jump in an answer. A question gone unanswered is like a festering wound....ok, maybe that's a bad analagy. But I know on most other forums (KF, BF, etc) I was always more of a lurker than a poster, I am trying very hard to change that, after this is my site/forums (not entirely mine mind you) and I feel I must maintain a presence on here because it's my duty. If there is a question and I don't know the answer personally, then gosh darn it I am going to find the answer for them. It's only right.

David

prime77 · **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2006, 09:20:51 AM

Thanks guys for all the feedback. Alot of my questions were answered tonight when I got home from work and found these little babies waiting for me

I have to say they are really cool looking black. The BO Wave is much tighter than my normal Wave. I'm not able flip it open with one hand for example. The PowerLock seems the same. Like J-Sews said both tools leave black smudges on my hand. Does that stop after time? Also how durable is the BO coating? Have any of you guys carried BO tools for long peiords of time? The Wave came with LM new MOLLE sheath.

J-sews · **Reply #14 on:** December 13, 2006, 03:25:37 AM

Jeez prime, you've picked up a couple of nice ones there! Those black finish tools sure catch the eye don't they?

Regarding your question about durability of the finish:
It does wear off. Not super easily, but you will start to see shiny silver show through on the high spots, just from taking the tools in and out of their sheath. Eventually mind you, not right away.

BTW, I haven't seen that new Leatherman sheath before. What can you tell us about it?

prime77 · **Reply #15 on:** December 13, 2006, 07:46:23 AM

The sheath is listed on the LM web site as the nylon MOLLE sheath $12.00. It can fit 4" and 4.5" multitools as well as all the new LM knifes. It has a large surface area velcro closure on the front and a button snap webbing on the back.

CacherX4 · **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2006, 07:45:50 PM

Quote from: prime77 on December 13, 2006, 07:46:23 AM

The sheath is listed on the LM web site as the nylon MOLLE sheath $12.00. It can fit 4" and 4.5" multitools as well as all the new LM knifes. It has a large surface area velcro closure on the front and a button snap webbing on the back.

I've looked at the pictures of that sheath and am curious prime77, what is your opinion of that sheath over LM other nylon sheaths? What makes it better, or is that just LM's version of a catch-all sheath for their tools?

joebw · **Reply #17 on:** December 13, 2006, 09:05:00 PM

Hi All,

A few thoughts on black oxide tools (& knives). First, the largest part of the market for things with black oxide (non-reflective) finishes is the military. Second, why would Leatherman have a MOLLE compatible sheath design? MOLLE stands for MOdular Lightweight Load-carrying Equipment. This is done through vests and packs with straps fastened at both ends so sheaths, equipment gags, radios and whatever can be attached in seemingly endless arrangements depending upon need. Both the US Army and Marine Corp have adopted MOLLE and issue such gear.

Leatherman was either asked by the military for a MOLLE-compatible sheath or decided to make that part of their sales approach for military sales. As you look at the MOLLE sheath and the other leatherman black oxide knife and tool sheaths, you note the leatherman name and logo are done in a subdued color rather the bright yellow. Many call these "stealth sheaths" for obvious reasons.

Hope this is of interest - Joe

prime77 · **Reply #18 on:** December 13, 2006, 11:11:00 PM

I agree that the MOLLE sheath may have been made with military sales in mind. It's still a nice nylon sheath. I like that it can take all the LM tools of different sizes. The Core and Surge fit in the sheath good and the large front velcro closure folds along way down the front of the sheath.

prime77 · **Reply #19 on:** December 13, 2006, 11:14:26 PM

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #20 on:** December 14, 2006, 12:26:53 AM

I like that.... does LM sell those seperately?

Def

CacherX4 · **Reply #21 on:** December 14, 2006, 01:00:38 AM

Quote from: Defender on December 14, 2006, 12:26:53 AM

I like that.... does LM sell those seperately?

Def

Yes they do...$12.00
http://www.leatherman.com/shop/shop.aspx?category=48

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #22 on:** December 14, 2006, 01:22:25 AM

Sweet... now I will have to "accidentally" lose a sheath for one of my other tools so I can get one!

Def

prime77 · **Reply #23 on:** December 14, 2006, 01:37:31 AM

I think it will be nice to have one sheath that will work with alot of different tools. The SOG Powerlock fits in the sheath good to as well. It has the extra pouch for the bit set holder behind the tool too. I only used it for one day but I think that LM did a good job with this one.

J-sews · **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2006, 06:53:22 PM

So does the new MOLLE sheath come standard with ALL Leatherman full-size tools? Or does it have to be ordered seperately?

joebw · **Reply #25 on:** December 17, 2006, 09:07:49 PM

Hi Bob,

My MOLLE sheath came with a black oxide Charge XTi. I expect these are over-runs for either the military directly or for the PX system. This is the only new BO tool that I've gotten with this type of sheath. Probably won't be the last as my list of BO Leatherman tools is still pretty long.

Joe

prime77 · **Reply #26 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:03:05 AM

I was playing with my new BO PowerLock and I found it interesting that the phillips driver can lock at 90' which is different from my regular PowerLock. It's too bad that the handle covers which can't close when the driver is locked have to stay open and get in the way.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:12:23 AM

I think that might be one of the reasons why the handles are so easily removed. Also, because SOG uses the same components in all of their tools, it's probably more effective in other tools that don't have a restrictive handle like the ParaTool.

Def

prime77 · **Reply #28 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:17:04 AM

Quote from: Defender on December 18, 2006, 01:12:23 AM

I think that might be one of the reasons why the handles are so easily removed. Also, because SOG uses the same components in all of their tools, it's probably more effective in other tools that don't have a restrictive handle like the ParaTool.

Def

I was thinking the same thing but not having a Paratool

I wasn't sure.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #29 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:23:18 AM

I betcha you could really beat up a ninja with a weapon like that!

Sorry, seeing that pic really conjured up images of those guys that always take your SAK, fold out the large and small blades and sometimes the awl, "load" thier fist with it and tell you what a handy weapon it would make!

Def

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