Help Dating what I beleive to be an old Lumberjack

[detron]

I THINK this is a Lumberjack based on the use of SAKWiki, but I am not sure.

I would love any help dating it, I did what I could from SAKWiki, and Google, but some of my findings contradict each other, so I come humbly here asking for advice.

To me the Point in time a SAK was made is more important than all other pieces of Information.


SAKWiki  lists these identifiers, but none match

     2.0511 Victorinox AN: Cellidor scales, no toothpick or tweezers, hot-stamped Economy Shield
    2.1311 Victorinox AN: Cellidor scales, regular cap-lifter replaces combo-tool, no toothpick or tweezers, hot-stamped Economy shield
    2.2313 Victorinox AN: Red Nylon scales, silver hot stamp shield emblem.

This SAK needs some cleaning, but here are the pictures.  (Cell phone camera, sorry)

There is no Toothpick or Tweezers on this SAK.

In the picture below, notice the Clip point shaped small blade, SAKWiki, does not mention this model with a small blade, just a combo tool.  Also the saw is one directional



Here is the back, (Sorry this one ended up fuzzy)  There is a  J.  neatly hot stamped on the back scale



Here is the reverse Tang



And the front Tang



The one directional saw





Closeup of the bail



and a top down view of the brass? space that offsets the small blade



Thank you for any help.  I got one other oddity in the lot I am got to post about, but this was my favorite one in the lot.

BTW,  I am digging my first SAK with a BAIL   

[colt 1911]

Swiss Army knives .

[pfrsantos]

Use pine scented cologne, dress in a checkered flanel shirt and wear boots, that'll help!

 

[colt 1911]

Use pine scented cologne, dress in a checkered flanel shirt and wear boots, that'll help!

 

 

[Aloha]

Use pine scented cologne, dress in a checkered flanel shirt and wear boots, that'll help!

 

 

a bail on certain SAKs is just plain awesome and this sure is in that category.   

[jazzbass]

That knife is technically called a "240 kU". Most people (myself included) call it a Lumberjack because that's it most resembles, although if you want to be technical the Lumberjack has a combo tool and not the pen blade. This was made before most knives were named and simply sold by its model number.

Date? I'd say mid 1960s, lets say c. 1964-1965.

[detron]

@colt 1911,  Thank you, I had some of that info, but not all.  Thanks!

Use pine scented cologne, dress in a checkered flanel shirt and wear boots, that'll help!

 

I read this and pictured Paul Bunyan (and got a good chuckle too)

a bail on certain SAKs is just plain awesome and this sure is in that category.   

Agree, I totally Love the bail.  I want a champion with a Bail 

That knife is technically called a "240 kU". Most people (myself included) call it a Lumberjack because that's it most resembles, although if you want to be technical the Lumberjack has a combo tool and not the pen blade. This was made before most knives were named and simply sold by its model number.

Date? I'd say mid 1960s, lets say c. 1964-1965.

@jazzbass, THANK YOU  Glad you weighed in with the model number!  I very much appreciate it!
I am so excited for your future book!  I will be getting that once available  (would not mind a signed copy  )

My "contradicting information" that I mentioned in my OP was that the bail was no longer used after 1961 on Celluloid SAKS.

here is the quote from SAKWiki

Introduced in 1902 the Shackle, also known as a Bail, was seen on Victorinox knives up until ~1961 at which time it was replaced with the smaller split-ring attachment method. The Alox Soldier between the years of 1963 and 1992 (some 1993), contain a hollow rivet at the end of the knife that was used as an attachment point. A removable Bail could be inserted into this, or a string or lanyard could simply be threaded through. Apparently the knife was never issued to Soldiers with the Bail.


Again,  Thank you

[jazzbass]

You're welcome.

My "contradicting information" that I mentioned in my OP was that the bail was no longer used after 1961 on Celluloid SAKS.

here is the quote from SAKWiki

Introduced in 1902 the Shackle, also known as a Bail, was seen on Victorinox knives up until ~1961 at which time it was replaced with the smaller split-ring attachment method. The Alox Soldier between the years of 1963 and 1992 (some 1993), contain a hollow rivet at the end of the knife that was used as an attachment point. A removable Bail could be inserted into this, or a string or lanyard could simply be threaded through. Apparently the knife was never issued to Soldiers with the Bail.

This is wrong if it refers to 84mm and 91mm knives. End date on the bail in standard production is typically considered to be c. 1969, with it used randomly for a bit afterwards. So 1902 - 1969.

[enki_ck]

Updated.

[detron]

Updated.

Thank you very much!   

[PTRSAK]

wouldn't you rather date a young one?

[Syph007]

Use pine scented cologne, dress in a checkered flanel shirt and wear boots, that'll help!

 

They like pancakes too!  

[enki_ck]

Use pine scented cologne, dress in a checkered flanel shirt and wear boots, that'll help!

 

They like pancakes too!  

[Smashie]

Beer came out of my nose after reading the thread title 

[detron]

wouldn't you rather date a young one?

(Image removed from quote.)

 

[detron]

I was so happy with my new Swiss Army Knife I did not notice the other possible interpretations of the title I chose.   

and I usually am one of the first to notice these things!

[enki_ck]

I was so happy with my new Swiss Army Knife I did not notice the other possible interpretations of the title I chose.   

and I usually am one of the first to notice these things!

All the Lumberjack threads end up this way eventually around here. But there's usually some good info to be found too.