Which SAKs suck?

[Chako]

Did anyone ever find proof positive that Wenger will stay in the US? Or is to too early to really tell? 

[kirk13]

The closest I've come to suckyness in SAKs have been the...wait for it...Yeoman and MiniChamp

Admittedly,my Yeoman is a mod,but while there's nothing wrong with it,it just isn't as awesome as it's made out to be

The MiniChamp does everything the Rambler/Manager does,just with more weight and redundant tools

[Chako]

Some knives get almost biblical followings due to its collectability...and not its functionality.

[tosh]

Did anyone ever find proof positive that Wenger will stay in the US? Or is to too early to really tell? 

I've been scouring the web intently on this issue - you could say I've got quite a bit at stake riding on this - lol 

I can't find anything that is even remotely applicable to this bombshell. 
I'm sure we'll know more in the next few days.

[Gareth]

Did anyone ever find proof positive that Wenger will stay in the US? Or is to too early to really tell? 

Depends on what you need to see/hear as proof.  I recall someone saying they'd had a tour of the Wenger factory and seeing a load of blades with Vic stamps on them.  It's been said from the very start that it's the Wenger name going, not the full range of knives.

[enki_ck]

Did anyone ever find proof positive that Wenger will stay in the US? Or is to too early to really tell? 

Depends on what you need to see/hear as proof.  I recall someone saying they'd had a tour of the Wenger factory and seeing a load of blades with Vic stamps on them.  It's been said from the very start that it's the Wenger name going, not the full range of knives.

Jeroen said that. He visited the Victorinox factory two months ago and was told by Urs Wyss (I think that's quite a reliable source ) that:

In 2014, Wenger produced knives will have Victorinox stamped on the blade, but with the addition Delemont. Ibach produced knives will have the same stamping they now have. The Wenger scissors will be replaced with the Victorinox ones, the Wenger reamer will be replaced with the Victorinox one and the Wenger tweezers and toothpick will be replaced with the Victorinox ones. The Wenger evolution line with wooden scales will stay in production...

[enki_ck]

We also saw this draft for the add on to the Victorinox catalogue 2014 a couple of months ago that we got confirmation from Wenger back then that it was real.

[gardenvalley]

It`s getting a bit off-topic now but it`s all good info, regardless. If Wenger scissors are to be replaced by Victorinox scissors and Wenger knives are 85mm, does this mean that Victorinox are to reintroduce their 84mm scissors? If that`s the case it`ll make the modders very happy.

[Mr. Whippy]

It`s getting a bit off-topic now but it`s all good info, regardless. If Wenger scissors are to be replaced by Victorinox scissors and Wenger knives are 85mm, does this mean that Victorinox are to reintroduce their 84mm scissors? If that`s the case it`ll make the modders very happy.

That is an excellent point!

[Chako]

Oh don't get me wrong, I do not wish to see Wenger disappear. I like Wenger. My issue is with the latest rumour about them staying in the US as Delemont. It would be nice if this were the case. I was hoping for more than just someones say so Gareth.

[enki_ck]

Oh don't get me wrong, I do not wish to see Wenger disappear. I like Wenger. My issue is with the latest rumour about them staying in the US as Delemont. It would be nice if this were the case. I was hoping for more than just someones say so Gareth.

That "someone" (Urs Wyss) is in charge or Victorinox international PR so I'd think his word carries some weight.

[enki_ck]

It`s getting a bit off-topic now but it`s all good info, regardless. If Wenger scissors are to be replaced by Victorinox scissors and Wenger knives are 85mm, does this mean that Victorinox are to reintroduce their 84mm scissors? If that`s the case it`ll make the modders very happy.

That is an excellent point!

I asked Jeroen that already but he forgot to ask Urs in all the excitement.  

[Chako]

Ah I see. That is good news indeed! 

[tosh]

Oh don't get me wrong, I do not wish to see Wenger disappear. I like Wenger. My issue is with the latest rumour about them staying in the US as Delemont. It would be nice if this were the case. I was hoping for more than just someones say so Gareth.

That "someone" (Urs Wyss) is in charge or Victorinox international PR so I'd think his word carries some weight.

Whoa!!!

Well well well...

That certainly opens some eyes 

...and explains a whole lot more too!!!!

[Gareth]

Did anyone ever find proof positive that Wenger will stay in the US? Or is to too early to really tell? 

Depends on what you need to see/hear as proof.  I recall someone saying they'd had a tour of the Wenger factory and seeing a load of blades with Vic stamps on them.  It's been said from the very start that it's the Wenger name going, not the full range of knives.

Jeroen said that. He visited the Victorinox factory two months ago and was told by Urs Wyss (I think that's quite a reliable source ) that:

In 2014, Wenger produced knives will have Victorinox stamped on the blade, but with the addition Delemont. Ibach produced knives will have the same stamping they now have. The Wenger scissors will be replaced with the Victorinox ones, the Wenger reamer will be replaced with the Victorinox one and the Wenger tweezers and toothpick will be replaced with the Victorinox ones. The Wenger evolution line with wooden scales will stay in production...

Cheers mate.   This was the original thread where it was all discussed: http://forum.multitool.org/swiss-forum/wengervic-2014/ 

(found it in the end )

Though I'll admit my memory was a touch at fault and it was a tour of the Vic factory, not Wenger's.  Still, as you say, having Urs Wyss confirm what's happening is really as close to 100% as we are going to get before the new product hits the shelf and we get to see them for ourselves.

[Chako]

Missed that thread. I don't tend to read everything in this forum. One of my many failings. Either way, can't wait to see what the future will hold in regard to Wenger and Victorinox. Looks like the coming year may be a bonanza for SAK collectors after all.

[gardenvalley]

It`ll be interesting to see how the new range will be priced. Wenger always seemed (and still do) to be overpriced compared to the equivalent Victorinox models. We`ll see.

[tosh]

So, given the past few posts on this thread, can someone bring me upto speed.

Vic bought wenger in 2005.
Without trawling back, would that coincide with the launch of the New Evo range? As well as the New Ranger series.


Cynical me, can't help but wonder (probably wrongly) that these were merely "market testers" under the Wenger brand name thus protecting the "Victorinox" brand.
I say this, as it seems logical when one takes into account that Victorinox has released virtually nothing during that same period....according to the link I posted elsewhere ( A Very Interesting Read). In which the Elseners total grasp on the power of the "Brand Name" is clearly documented.

Was wenger purchased as much as a test bed as well as to prevent compromising victorinox's monopoly, for want of a better word.

I know its business, but a few home truths would paint a clearer picture.
This is a independent forum after all.


It seems very odd that when one considers the market value worth of a 120yr old Swiss brand name like Wenger (Does it get any better than that? German perhaps). Given the enormous power and wealth of some of the global conglomerates, who would I imagine have jumped at such a blue chip company up for grabs. I do wonder what the actual purchase price was and more so what the stipulations were.
Could it be that Wenger was to remain in Switzerland, not to lay off the workforce? Even maybe to carry on under the Wenger name until its 120th anniversary??

The mind races when facts are untold.

Apologies, I'm just in a pondering mood     

[Papa Rich]

Wenger is still alive and will be sold by Victorinox USA, using the Delemont name. Rich

 
 

A bit harsh for the guys second post Tosh.

Not really Gareth

I suspect, like most of us did - Papa Rich has been with us for some time before joining.

Welcome  to the forum Papa   


You're gonna love it here!! 

Thank you ! Are you laughing ?

Welcome PapaRich! 

I'm very happy to hear the news about Delemont knives.  By any chance, are there any of the Ranger series in the catalogues? 

 Yes.  RangerGrip 178, 57, 58, 61, 71, 74, 78, 79, Boatsman, Rangerwood 55
Hope this helps...Rich

[sticktodrum]

The combo tool sucks, and the light sucks. So yeah...

[splico]

light sucks a lot, combo tool is on sucking border 

[tosh]

Welcome PapaRich! 

I'm very happy to hear the news about Delemont knives.  By any chance, are there any of the Ranger series in the catalogues? 

Yes.  RangerGrip 178, 57, 58, 61, 71, 74, 78, 79, Boatsman, Rangerwood 55
Hope this helps...Rich






Don't say Victorinox are intending to use the "RangerGrip" name and model numbers too!! 

Isn't that bit like selling a BMW but with an Audi badge stuck on. Or a better analogy would be removing a deceased face and transplanting onto the  living without changing features and even name!!. For no other reason than sheer vanity

Such a display of arrogance is quite unbecoming from what has always been regarded as a distinguished company.

I find whole wenger/victorinox swap over shameful. I'm actually embarrassed for them.


My apologies to the mods if my post is somewhat raw!! - but I'm actually stunned by these latest revelations. (It's nothing to do with my personal ensemble, in fact if anything it will increase their value as mine will be regarded as the real McCoy.)
But the way victorinox has gone about this, is to me the dawn of a new era.

We've witnessed huge changes on the multitool manufacturing from the other big players. And, in all that time the SAK market seemed to be rock solid. This however is in such bad taste, I'm pretty certain most who know their stuff will see straight through this and see it, for what it really is.

Imagine if Gerber bought leatherman, and then simply swapped the badge!

[basilio]

Nick,
reading this topic and others I think your point of view (or point of hate) on Victorinox is crystal clear.
I too prefer the Wenger brand, but I don't see why I should blame Victorinox for using existing names or for not "innovating".

[KiwiMark]

light sucks a lot

I've had some decent lights for a while now and hadn't bought one for a while, but I recently got a Jetbeam RRT-0 with an XML T6 LED - max output 550 Lumen. This has an adjustment ring that lets me set any brightness from full down to low enough to where I can look directly at the emitter.
I've also ordered a Nitecore P12 with 950 Lumen output and I'm considering a Zebralight that has 1,100 Lumen output.

Compared to these, can you imagine how disappointing it would be to use a SAK with a light in it?  That is of course if I hadn't made a very deliberate decision to avoid buying any SAK with a light.

One obvious question would be - could Victorinox fix this and put a decent light into their SAKs.
I think the answer is that they really couldn't keep a SAK so compact and also put in a light that would match even a 1 x AAA sized flashlight. The only solution is not to bother, let those that need a light carry a light - the sort of people that EDC a useful multitool like a SAK can also EDC a flashlight if they want.
Also, these days EVERYONE carries a cellphone and many of those offer a flashlight function - mine uses the camera flash LED to provide a flashlight function.

For me to go out on my motorbike I need my keys:

That Manager is useful at work with a handy pen and useful for other things with the scissors and blade and combo tool.  But also that nicely scuffed up Fenix L0D seen near the top of the pic - that is useful for seeing in the dark. Running on the AAA battery is great too, they are easy batteries to get hold of and I can get good output and decent battery life from one of them.
I was aware of the option to buy a Midnite Manager but I made the decision to buy a Manager instead, I know some people must have a Midnite Manager and really like it, but for a flashlight geek like me I think it sucks.

As for those people that like their SAKs with lights?
I think that they should look into decent flashlights.  If they have some use for a light then why not investigate the options?

On a similar note - what about the SAKs with USB flash drives?
I don't have one of these, but I'm not too sure that I like the idea.
I think I'd prefer to carry a SAK AND a Flash Drive.
I'm not talking about the Victorinox USB 2 Flash Drives that don't come with any blades - they aren't actually SAKs and they look pretty cool.
With a SAK I worry that after 10 years you would still have a useful SAK but with a useless and outdated USB Flash Drive in it.
Then there is the weight of the SAK hanging off the USB port - is that a good idea?
In many ways I like that my SAKs don't have any electronics in them because my 13 year old Cybertool is showing no signs of being outdated or obsoleted by newer electronics.  A sharp knife will always be a useful tool but the early USB drives that came with 64MB capacity are long gone, now you can get 64GB instead.
I can get a new cellphone every couple of years to keep up with technology, but my Cybertool 34 will still be a great tool working well in another 13 years! No electronics in a gadget can be an advantage for longevity!

[tosh]

Nick,
reading this topic and others I think your point of view (or point of hate) on Victorinox is crystal clear.
I too prefer the Wenger brand, but I don't see why I should blame Victorinox for using existing names or for not "innovating".

It isn't hate, far from it.
I've developed a real passion for MTs/SAKs.
It all started 2 years ago when I joined. Back then I was more naïve. But reading the forums, following the links... A whole new world was just waiting to be explored.

But, it seems as though the waters are not quite as crystal clear as I once thought. The big names in the multitools seem to have either disappeared or lost their edge. The SAKs on the other hand were glorious. But now it seems its all either gone or going.

I'm perfectly aware that business is business these days.

BUT,  the ending is just so undignified to me.

Remember, I have both the Swiss books celebrating both their 100 years anniversary. To read them, one cannot be left but in awe at what they both went onto achieve...World Domination. And in doing so, both became global iconic brand names with very few peers.

But this latest turn of events is just so sad. The prototype of the 2014 victorinox......
Seriously, what did you think when you first saw it...? WENGER!!

I think its just lazy, like my criticism of the Damascus Explorer.. Lazy.
Its almost as if I'm seeing the cracks appear.

We see what leatherman are producing today and we all wonder WHY??
We see the latest SOG products and again wonder WHY??
We see Gerber stuff from our eastern friends and mock the quality.

Although Victorinox have delivered exactly what I suspected. I'm left just a little disappointed that they couldn't be bothered to try a little harder and maybe  be just a little more original. What they have done is basically what I expected either Taiwan or China to do, which is basically produce a copy of the oiriginal.

It speaks volumes as to how much victorinox has changed.

I just wish it hadn't....that's all.

[sticktodrum]

Sounds like a bunch of overreacting to me, on all counts.

tosh...are you normally this dramatic? 

And to be on-topic, it seems like you're saying all the new Wengerinox models are going to suck because they aren't Wenger but really Victorinox even though they're Wengers because the designs are owned by Victorinox and the massive world culture that is the Swiss Army Knife is falling apart at the seams!? 

 

[Mr. Whippy]

Welcome PapaRich! 

I'm very happy to hear the news about Delemont knives.  By any chance, are there any of the Ranger series in the catalogues? 

Yes.  RangerGrip 178, 57, 58, 61, 71, 74, 78, 79, Boatsman, Rangerwood 55
Hope this helps...Rich

Don't say Victorinox are intending to use the "RangerGrip" name and model numbers too!! 

Isn't that bit like selling a BMW but with an Audi badge stuck on.

Well no, it'd be more like VW using the Porsche (or Lamborghini, Ducati, or Bugatti, or Bentley...) and putting the VW name on it (oh! That's right the Toureg is a Cayenne  )  They own it, so if they want to  use it cross platform, they're free to.

Keeping the utility in the marketplace is more important to me than the stamp on  the tang.


That said:

If you had relatives from the Sheffield area, who were displaced after the rape and pillage of the revered names in cutlery were bought out and abused, I could understand your position better.

[tosh]

Sounds like a bunch of overreacting to me, on all counts.

tosh...are you normally this dramatic? 

And to be on-topic, it seems like you're saying all the new Wengerinox models are going to suck because they aren't Wenger but really Victorinox even though they're Wengers because the designs are owned by Victorinox and the massive world culture that is the Swiss Army Knife is falling apart at the seams!? 

 

Not normally no - lol

I'm surprised myself at the way I'm reacting to this.  Apologies to everyone, sorry!!

I can only assume its because I've spent the WHOLE year both buying and gearing up for Wenger's end.

I've hardly touched on other makes. Its just been Wenger, Wenger, Wenger....

I've been thinking an awful lot too, away from the forum. Maybe I've blown it all out of proportion. I really don't know!!

Although I don't hate victorinox, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't  angry. When I think of how radical Wenger was, how innovative some of the designs were its hard to believe they've now gone after 120yrs!! That's long long time. Yet by comparison victorinox have simply churned out zillions of their bland & banal offerings for the last decade.

Suddenly, Wenger's gone and up pops victorinox sporting wengers trademark evo scales - but yet they never had the guts to launch their own take on it.

Its basically down to that.

I see them in a totally different light these days. I really don't buy any of this chocolate boxy, pure as the driven snow, swiss quality....marketing bullsmurf.

There was a time when they themselves were the movers and shakers, but I guess someone else was in the driving seat back then.

[Syph007]

Keep in mind that those pics could just be photoshop jobs and the actual knives be different.  Still very intersting to see what happens thus year.

[tosh]

Keep in mind that those pics could just be photoshop jobs and the actual knives be different.  Still very intersting to see what happens thus year.

Exactly