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How does Victorinox do it ....

Offline Styerman

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How does Victorinox do it ....
on: May 30, 2008, 02:43:05 AM
Near perfect QC , really usable , at an affordable price ! Has everyone else lost the plot ...

Chris


us Offline ducktapehero

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #1 on: May 30, 2008, 05:18:45 AM
That's why after many years of wasting my money on lesser knives and tools I pretty much only buy Victorinox nowadays. NOTHING in its price range even comes close to the quality.
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Offline kent ct

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #2 on: May 30, 2008, 05:41:34 AM
I have thought about this too. I believe that when you reach a certain level of production more and more can be automated with specially built machines.

To get to that level though a huge customer base is needed and Vic has spent 100 years getting that base and fine tuning production. It also does not hurt to have a product that appeals to large numbers of people and to foster that appeal with new products carefully thought out.

German mechanical clocks now are dominant. The Japanese tried. The South Koreans tried and they both failed, primarily with quality control.

American mid price watches were once the best by far in the world. Nobody could compete. The American watch industry invented revolutionary machines. The lathe collet and the precision grinder were two ideas that led to whole new machines. I think it was Gruen that first imported American watch tools to Switzerland and together with a skilled work force gradually caught up. It took about 50 years though. The English who were responsible for most of the major design improvements and once led the world could not keep up despite having genius's like Maudslay, Roberts and Whitworth who along with others launched the industrial revolution.

Everybody knows the story of Ford who once produced half the worlds cars. Alloy steel and the production line.

No matter how cheap your labor is or how skilled,a man with a file can't keep up with a milling machine.

Richard


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #3 on: May 30, 2008, 10:44:53 AM
I have thought about this too. I believe that when you reach a certain level of production more and more can be automated with specially built machines.

To get to that level though a huge customer base is needed and Vic has spent 100 years getting that base and fine tuning production. It also does not hurt to have a product that appeals to large numbers of people and to foster that appeal with new products carefully thought out.

German mechanical clocks now are dominant. The Japanese tried. The South Koreans tried and they both failed, primarily with quality control.

American mid price watches were once the best by far in the world. Nobody could compete. The American watch industry invented revolutionary machines. The lathe collet and the precision grinder were two ideas that led to whole new machines. I think it was Gruen that first imported American watch tools to Switzerland and together with a skilled work force gradually caught up. It took about 50 years though. The English who were responsible for most of the major design improvements and once led the world could not keep up despite having genius's like Maudslay, Roberts and Whitworth who along with others launched the industrial revolution.

Everybody knows the story of Ford who once produced half the worlds cars. Alloy steel and the production line.

No matter how cheap your labor is or how skilled,a man with a file can't keep up with a milling machine.

Richard
Very interesting post :cheers:, and probably very true too, but let's not forget good ole fashioned pride and reputation :)

I doubt Vic would even consider letting a bellow par tool off the drawing board, let alone out of the factory! :)
Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!


us Offline WhichDawg

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #4 on: May 30, 2008, 10:50:13 AM
when I first got into MTs (seriously) I went to a store that had many brands and
tried them all out, got a feel for them and Swisstools really stuck out! I'm not knocking
the others (not here anyway) they all have good points but when something (or someone)
really impresses you, you gotta go for it/her!


Offline scibeer

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #5 on: May 30, 2008, 07:37:55 PM
I have had hundreds of Victorinox knives here and have seen most from the inside out and am still amazed how well the QC department had done.

Out of maybe 500 or 600 knives I've taken apart, I have found exactly 2 with QC problems (both OHT's) with pins that didn't get peened on one side.

That's it!   I have seen slight differences on blade edge grinds as well, but nothing that wouldn't cut well.

Simply amazing for the number of parts involved.


Offline Styerman

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #6 on: May 31, 2008, 03:09:51 AM
Wegner doesn't impress me much , aside from the S.I. , but Vicki. RAWKS !

Chris


Offline ultimaonliner

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #7 on: May 31, 2008, 05:51:05 AM
I love the design and functional capabilities of Leathermans but am always in awe of the quality of Victorinox.  Usually products that have the quality of a Vic should cost 2 or 3 times as much for the equivalent.
"


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #8 on: May 31, 2008, 09:37:39 AM
Usually products that have the quality of a Vic should cost 2 or 3 times as much for the equivalent.
Can't argue with that :)
Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!


Offline raptor

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 02:30:43 PM
Near perfect QC , really usable , at an affordable price ! Has everyone else lost the plot ...

Chris

i agree


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 03:58:37 PM
No other company has magical dwarves that live under the Alps making knives for them like Victorinox does- that's how they can manage to crank them out that good!

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


Offline Hoghead

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 12:26:10 AM
No other company has magical dwarves that live under the Alps making knives for them like Victorinox does- that's how they can manage to crank them out that good!

Def

So how do we get the magical dwarves to magically put a pocket clip on the Swisstool Spirit? I'll take mine in Black Oxide.  :D


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #12 on: June 07, 2008, 01:00:09 AM
You need to make an offering of fresh fruits and buxom, bearded lasses, but beware, the dwarves can be a cantankerous lot when forced to speak the tongues of Man...

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline ducktapehero

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 04:11:17 AM
No other company has magical dwarves that live under the Alps making knives for them like Victorinox does- that's how they can manage to crank them out that good!

Def
Dwarves? I thought they were Oompa-Loompas.
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Offline nitroman

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 02:13:37 PM
They know what they're doing, thats for sure. I've owned vic s.a.k's for years and always have been impressed with their clever design and quality steel. Now I am in posession of a spirit and soon a swisstool rs after owning a couple of leathermen my admiration is at a new level for the product. The design, manufacture and quality is second to none, at a great price! If only they made other products. Imagine how good a victorinox rifle would be, or a car!  ::)


Offline Rodion

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #15 on: June 07, 2008, 02:36:55 PM
The Swiss Army Rifle... not a bad idea.



Seriously, Vic would probably just rebrand a quality company (like they did with Inova)
W


Offline AndyTiedye

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #16 on: June 23, 2008, 07:28:00 AM
Wegner doesn't impress me much , aside from the S.I. , but Vicki. RAWKS !

Chris

Vic owns Wenger now.  You might want to give them another look.
Particularly the New Rangers and the Alinghi.

R


Offline max6166

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #17 on: June 23, 2008, 08:16:11 AM
Wegner doesn't impress me much , aside from the S.I. , but Vicki. RAWKS !

Chris

Vic owns Wenger now.  You might want to give them another look.
Particularly the New Rangers and the Alinghi.



Yes, Wenger has definitely started coming out with many products that are both very exciting and high quality. And I think they will just keep getting better.

Hopefully, the Vic / Wenger relationship will push both companies to aspire to new heights and a new golden age of SAKdom!  :D





[


Offline ultimaonliner

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #18 on: June 24, 2008, 06:41:49 AM
I can't wait until Vic decides to say "F--- it, let's just buy out Leatherman Tool Group" and start producing some awesome Leathermans :)

"


Offline Rodion

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #19 on: June 24, 2008, 01:42:41 PM
You mean like this?

W


Offline ultimaonliner

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #20 on: June 24, 2008, 07:24:37 PM
I like my Spirits, but I think Tim Leatherman would have started drug testing his employees if somebody in his company recommended the butterknife shaped blade :)

I like Leatherman's designs, but love Vic's consistent quality.
"


us Offline NeitherExtreme

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #21 on: June 24, 2008, 10:21:44 PM
I think Tim Leatherman would have started drug testing his employees if somebody in his company recommended the butterknife shaped blade :)
Hehe, let's not forget the Flair... :D

Personally, though, I think Vic does what they do by...

1-making a huge volume
2-having a worldwide reputation
3-having good management
4-not inovating

That last one might seem a bit rough, but I do think it's a big part of how they keep their cost down and their consistancy up. Most of their knives are essentially the same pieces in different combinations. And their Swisstools were essentially a Swiss copy of someone elses design. The OH knives and the Spirit seem like the most inovation they've done recently, and even those take proven ideas and just tweak them a bit. If it hadn't been for the Spydercos and Leathermans, I highly doubt Vic would have inovated beyond the basic SAK design yet. This is not an insult by any means, I just think that it is definetely part of the answer as to how they can keep their prices as they do.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 10:31:48 PM by NeitherExtreme »


Offline Rodion

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #22 on: June 25, 2008, 01:52:25 AM
1-making a huge volume
2-having a worldwide reputation
3-having good management
4-not inovating

You forgot polishing the life out of everything they make.

That ought to be #1.
W


Offline max6166

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #23 on: June 25, 2008, 02:09:09 AM
Personally, though, I think Vic does what they do by...

1-making a huge volume
2-having a worldwide reputation
3-having good management
4-not inovating

That last one might seem a bit rough, but I do think it's a big part of how they keep their cost down and their consistancy up. Most of their knives are essentially the same pieces in different combinations. And their Swisstools were essentially a Swiss copy of someone elses design. The OH knives and the Spirit seem like the most inovation they've done recently, and even those take proven ideas and just tweak them a bit. If it hadn't been for the Spydercos and Leathermans, I highly doubt Vic would have inovated beyond the basic SAK design yet. This is not an insult by any means, I just think that it is definetely part of the answer as to how they can keep their prices as they do.

I essentially agree with you.

Vic have tried a few new things over the last 20 years, but most of their more radical ideas just didn't sell nearly as well as the classic SAK designs. The SportRatchet is a pretty wild departure, for example, as are the flash drive SAKs. The CyberTool is one new idea that fortunately "took".

There are some pretty interesting things coming out of Vic recently though, like the OHT.

And let's face it, any company that would actually make a contraption like the SwissChamp XAVT is essentially insane, so who knows what they'll do next...?  :D


« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 03:16:56 AM by max6166 »
[


us Offline NeitherExtreme

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #24 on: June 25, 2008, 02:38:01 AM
Vic have tried a few new things over the last 20 years, but most of their more radical ideas just didn't sell nearly as well as the classic SAK designs.
That's a good point, they have done some outside the box type things from time to time. It doesn't seem to be where they make the money, but you're right they have tried on occasion. :)


Offline ultimaonliner

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Re: How does Victorinox do it ....
Reply #25 on: June 25, 2008, 06:05:35 AM
They were the innovators, a hundred years ago.  As a business, they successfully branded themselves the moment they got the Swiss Army to use their knives.  History and the Vic brand was born.

When you've early established yourself like this, a company doesn't need to be too risky.  They're not designing computers, but reshaping metal and plastic.  The problem is, famous companies that made quality items like buggy whips eventually go out of business unless they're lucky enough to reinvent themselves to make something almost entirely different.

I wonder when and if the various world cultures will change enough so that pocket knives will be like the old buggy whip.  If this does occur, then is there a product which could evolve from the SAK that could be as popular in the future?  Or will Vic need to invent something in an entirely different market to be dominant?

It seems to me the Vic brand depends on the Swiss Army's use of the pocket knives and if the cultures change so that pocket knives are unpopular, then I don't think Vic can create another product with that type of clear iconic value.

I doubt Vic's luggage or watches will be strong viable lines of future business if their pocket knife business deteriorates. 

This does make me a bit sad.
"


 

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