Vintage SAK Owners Club

[kamakiri]

And the that super knife looks like c.’75. And not gonna ask for more pics of that one ‘cause we both know how that goes. Clearly from before the “1973” knife in question. But I’m sure you’ll doubt something there too.   

[kamakiri]

Any Hoffritz lovers ? Nice but pricey (not mine to my regret  )

https://www.ebay.com/itm/c-1973-VTG-Victorinox-HOFFRITZ-Earliest-CHAMPION-C-Swiss-Army-Knife-NEW-IN-BOX-/254674039171?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Looks like somebody actually bought it! 

[VoetSak]

Looks like somebody actually bought it! 

Ten bucks says its Minichamp. I have never seen so much love for one knife 😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂😆😆😆😆😆😆

[kamakiri]

Ten bucks says its Minichamp. I have never seen so much love for one knife 😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂😆😆😆😆😆😆

  I’m not taking that bet!

[MexSAK]

Hello guys! Happy 2021!

Here is another SAK, also claimed to be from 1973, same seller, but in this case, the featured "Modeler" has a Clip-Point, the VICTORIA stamp and five turns cork screw:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353338041506

[jazzbass]

Hello guys! Happy 2021!

Here is another SAK, also claimed to be from 1973, same seller, but in this case, the featured "Modeler" has a Clip-Point, the VICTORIA stamp and five turns cork screw:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353338041506

Wow. I have never seen one that old, and I watch most Modeler auctions as its one of my favorite models. I would love to see it with the scales off to see if its real, or a repair/mod of a similar vintage Champion. You know that Victorinox was making mag glass knives in the early 70s "Victoria" era, so its not unheard of that this is a real thing. But this is the first time I've ever seen one. Until this the only Victoria-era mag glass knives I've seen are Passengers, Explorers, and Champions.

[jnoxyd]

Hi Jazzbass, you're right about the scales.  One day I finally found the Champion with old tools, VOS stamp and a magnifying glass / Phillips but when I removed the scales I found it was reriveted.  As for the c.1973 Modeler, one similar was shown by German collector a few years ago and I saved a couple of photos.

[MexSAK]

Why would someone remove the scales from a 1970s SAK in order to verify anything? The scales would get damaged in the process, didn't they? There should be any other ways to make sure that it is -or not- a MODED SAK... Please share 

[FolderBeholder]

Why would someone remove the scales from a 1970s SAK in order to verify anything? The scales would get damaged in the process, didn't they? There should be any other ways to make sure that it is -or not- a MODED SAK... Please share 

Some folks can tell, I started a topic about this very question:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,70857.msg1430680.html#msg1430680

[jazzbass]

As for the c.1973 Modeler, one similar was shown by German collector a few years ago and I saved a couple of photos.
(Image removed from quote.)

That's cool - thanks for sharing. I like to see several of these in the wild before assuming they're real. It's reasonable to think they'd make several runs of different tool combos as they were expanding the line by in 73-74. Until this, though, the earliest Modeler I've ever seen was early 80s.

Why would someone remove the scales from a 1970s SAK in order to verify anything? The scales would get damaged in the process, didn't they? There should be any other ways to make sure that it is -or not- a MODED SAK... Please share 

You can remove the scales without damage if you get them warm. These early 70s scales are a challenge because the plastic itself is not very stable (observe how the ends are curling up - super common with knives from this era). I did this on an early 90s Yeoman I found years ago that had a pen blade in place of the combo tool. Its the only one I've ever seen and I was 90% sure it was a mod and not factory. Pulled the scales and to my surprise - factory rivets. It's either a mistake that slipped through QC, a low volume custom order or a test idea for a new model that got sold off.

[kamakiri]

Looks correct to me for early ‘73.  Also note that there’s no backside SD. Hard detail to ‘fake’ if you didn’t already know.

Nice part about partly peeling scales are they can be ‘verified’ as original assembly without taking them off.

Thanks Mexsak for the post and jnoxyd for the comparison pic. 

[jnoxyd]

One more Modeler from my collection. Think it’s a little later then VOS stamped one shown above. Mine has 2.4mm blank stamp blade, small holes/black spring scissors. Look at the liners type and arrangement , pics together another  1970s knife (c.1976-1979)

[kamakiri]

‘74-‘75 for sure. No way it’s on the + side of ‘76. Argument for ‘76 would be weak, IMO.

The Grand Prix is ‘78-‘79.

[jazzbass]

%u201874-%u201875 for sure. No way it%u2019s on the + side of %u201876. Argument for %u201876 would be weak, IMO.

How so? All these dates are approximate at best. Parts fall to the bottom of bins, repairs made, etc. Esp the older knives in times when things were changing a lot (like the 73-80 time frame).

[FolderBeholder]

Not sure of age of this one, but it seems to be similar to jnoxyd's:

[kamakiri]

Not sure of age of this one, but it seems to be similar to jnoxyd's:

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Yours is ‘85-‘86. Early ‘87 at the very latest.

[FolderBeholder]

Yours is ‘85-‘86. Early ‘87 at the very latest.

Thank you, I didn't know what age it was. 

[kamakiri]

How so? All these dates are approximate at best. Parts fall to the bottom of bins, repairs made, etc. Esp the older knives in times when things were changing a lot (like the 73-80 time frame).

This is exactly why argument for ‘76+ would be ‘weak’. Lots of things would have to be from the bottom of their respective bins. And that’s rarely done with main line construction.

My feeling without seeing more detail is that it’s about early ‘75.

[kamakiri]

Thank you, I didn't know what age it was. 

I should also say, if and assuming it has no eyelet in the awl that it would likely be on the ‘85 side of that range.

[FolderBeholder]

I should also say, if and assuming it has no eyelet in the awl that it would likely be on the ‘85 side of that range.

It has a an eyelet.

[kamakiri]

It has a an eyelet.

Then ‘86 it should be! 

[jazzbass]

This is exactly why argument for %u201876+ would be %u2018weak%u2019. Lots of things would have to be from the bottom of their respective bins. And that%u2019s rarely done with main line construction.

My feeling without seeing more detail is that it%u2019s about early %u201875.

This doesn't answer my question. How is the argument weak? You make a lot of assertions as fact without explaining the logic behind them. Not saying you're wrong, I'd just love to know the thought process.

[MexSAK]

Thank you, Kamakiri, Holder_Beholder, Jnoxyd, all you guys, for sharing your knowledge.

[jnoxyd]

It has a an eyelet.

This is why I suggested the "list of changes" above. Taking into account various changes in knife construction, materials, tools, stamps and keeping in mind the "parts from the bottom of the bin" (I like this meme! ) we can determine the possible production time range of the knife.
My mother-in-law doctor calls this differential diagnosis.

[Barry Rowland]

Lisa, that knife is gorgeous!  It looks like it just came out of the shipping box 

[kamakiri]

Thank you, Kamakiri, Holder_Beholder, Jnoxyd, all you guys, for sharing your knowledge.

  That’s what the thread is for!

This doesn't answer my question. How is the argument weak? You make a lot of assertions as fact without explaining the logic behind them. Not saying you're wrong, I'd just love to know the thought process.

A knife assembled in or after ‘76 should have parts made in or shortly before ‘76 and have ‘construction’ details consistent with ‘76 or later. Doesn’t have all of that. And that’s why I’d say an argument for ‘76 or later would be ‘weak’.

I’m assuming I don’t have to get into details about why it can be ‘74-‘75.

This is why I suggested the "list of changes" above. Taking into account various changes in knife construction, materials, tools, stamps and keeping in mind the "parts from the bottom of the bin" (I like this meme! ) we can determine the possible production time range of the knife.
My mother-in-law doctor calls this differential diagnosis.

I think you get it. I don’t blindly ignore the ‘binning’ issue. But it’s not as widespread and random as some might think.

[kamakiri]

Esp the older knives in times when things were changing a lot (like the 73-80 time frame).

I think it’s all the little changes make it easier to separate production into individual, perhaps even discreet annual production. The interesting part is how they can tie different product lines and even different frame sizes.

[kamakiri]

Any guesses on this one?







Anybody have one like it? Parts-wise, that is.

Again, seems original to me and despite the unique parts combination, I think it can be dated to sub half year accuracy from just these pics.

[FolderBeholder]

An Angler with a file... I'm stumped.

[MiniChamp]

Anybody have one like it? Parts-wise, that is.

Yes, many of us do. It's a Fischermesser F235fmaU (like the one in the attached brochure). The scales were probably blue, once upon a time, and it looks like the fish inlay was destroyed by corrosion. It's well known that the blue scales on these SAKs were often very unstable. This particular discoloration seems to be a bit unusual, though. Quite interesting.