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Vintage SAK Owners Club 39861

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,921
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #750 on: April 04, 2019, 11:47:27 AM »
Happy to report it has nickel silver tipped tweezers, hard to capture in the photo.


Very nice FB! :like: :tu: :tu:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,921
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #751 on: April 04, 2019, 11:48:25 AM »
The best Champion I have ;)

Nice Champion jnoxyd! :like: :tu: :tu:

No Life Club Posts: 4,142
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #752 on: April 04, 2019, 03:53:00 PM »
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #753 on: April 04, 2019, 08:04:06 PM »
The best Champion I have ;)(Image removed from quote.)

 :like: Fantastic! Definitely on my list!

I have a 235U:


Hoffritz on the back!


One of the liners (Scissor) is strangely thin and aluminum ~0.52mm

A later +PAT Camper 234U has the Hoffritz/HSS front and VO crossbow on the back.
Sr. Member Posts: 438
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #754 on: April 05, 2019, 10:01:28 PM »
:like: Fantastic! Definitely on my list!

I have a 235U:
(Image removed from quote.)

Hoffritz on the back!
(Image removed from quote.)

One of the liners (Scissor) is strangely thin and aluminum ~0.52mm

A later +PAT Camper 234U has the Hoffritz/HSS front and VO crossbow on the back.
Nice vintage Hoffritz  :tu:
Sr. Member Posts: 438
Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #755 on: April 07, 2019, 11:42:21 AM »
Two interesting Champions made for Hoffritz :
Champion from 1957-1958 with hidden rivets (since 1957) and pre1957 old tools and stamps:
-39 teeth wood saw,
- square nail nick on LNF,
- aluminum small blade spacer,
- round section shape bail,
- VO CB stamp (1952-1957)
Champion from early 1980s. It has only Hoffritz name on it, no Victorinox name in blade stamp!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 12:04:23 PM by jnoxyd »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,814 aka "G-Fiddle" and "Glen-Fizzle"
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #756 on: April 07, 2019, 12:02:03 PM »
 :hatsoff:  :drool:

[--- arms length ---] (-.-) 

                                ^-- where the cat sits
No Life Club Posts: 4,142
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #757 on: April 07, 2019, 02:10:58 PM »
Two interesting Champions made for Hoffritz :
Champion from 1957-1958 with hidden rivets (since 1957) and pre1957 old tools and stamps:
-39 teeth wood saw,
- square nail nick on LNF,
- aluminum small blade spacer,
- round section shape bail,
- VO CB stamp (1952-1957)(Image removed from quote.)
Champion from early 1980s. It has only Hoffritz name on it, no Victorinox name in blade stamp!(Image removed from quote.)
Wow!  Two beauties there jnoxyd!  I have one in route to me like your bottom knife (only Hoffritz stamp), except mine is a Camper model.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,921
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #758 on: April 07, 2019, 04:06:32 PM »
Two interesting Champions made for Hoffritz :
Champion from 1957-1958 with hidden rivets (since 1957) and pre1957 old tools and stamps:
-39 teeth wood saw,
- square nail nick on LNF,
- aluminum small blade spacer,
- round section shape bail,

Champion from early 1980s. It has only Hoffritz name on it, no Victorinox name in blade stamp!

Nice pics jnoxyd! :like: :tu: :tu:
Thread Killer 2017 Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,789 Born to multitask.
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #759 on: April 07, 2019, 04:25:00 PM »
:dd:
Thanks for sharing, those are absolutely stunning. :salute:
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #760 on: April 07, 2019, 06:39:08 PM »
Two interesting Champions made for Hoffritz :
Champion from 1957-1958 with hidden rivets (since 1957) and pre1957 old tools and stamps:
-39 teeth wood saw,
- square nail nick on LNF,
- aluminum small blade spacer,
- round section shape bail,
- VO CB stamp (1952-1957)(Image removed from quote.)
Champion from early 1980s. It has only Hoffritz name on it, no Victorinox name in blade stamp!(Image removed from quote.)

 :like: Top one gets my vote for 'Best Champion' in your collection!  ;) I don't have anything that nice from that date range.

I have one just like the bottom one. It's actually late '70's. I have one exactly like it. The Hoffritz/SSR blades bridge into the '80s, but are Hot Stamped on the scale by then. The Awl will tell all. The configuration makes it late seventies, but the late-V1 Hoff inlay and the plastic tweezer tip put it in the c.'78-79 range. Scissor screw confirms - makes it firmly '77 or later.
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #761 on: April 07, 2019, 07:12:30 PM »
With the c.'77 version on top:


Looking at mine again it looks closer to '79 and jnoxyd's might be more '78.


Devil is in the detail.
Sr. Member Posts: 438
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #762 on: April 07, 2019, 08:10:23 PM »
With the c.'77 version on top:
(Image removed from quote.)

Looking at mine again it looks closer to '79 and jnoxyd's might be more '78.
(Image removed from quote.)

Devil is in the detail.
Yes, I should say scissors has large screw and awl has pre 83 tip  shape ;) I date it as 1980-1983 only due to steel Victorinox inlay emblem. They changed nickel silver emblem inlay to steel one around 1980, at least I don't know another version. Do you?
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #763 on: April 07, 2019, 09:01:35 PM »
Yes, I should say scissors has large screw and awl has pre 83 tip  shape ;) I date it as 1980-1983 only due to steel Victorinox inlay emblem. They changed nickel silver emblem inlay to steel one around 1980, at least I don't know another version. Do you?

There's a lot of misunderstanding about the stainless steel inlay use in the '70s. 

The awl tip is '77 to '79. Maybe late '76 to early '80. If you measure the angle of the grind, it will be ~70º.  Past '80, it would not have a ground tip, and would definitely have a hot stamp Hoffritz scale. '76 and earlier, the tip would be a different angle and other different details. Hoff tang stamps run to about '82 or so. There's a lot of those to prove the overlap in that date range as well as the c. '80 and post '80 awl styles.

Both Nickel Silver and Stainless inlays were used from '73 to '80.  c. 1980 is only the end of Nickel Silver use.  There is solid proof of stainless use with main line knives. The best proof are the combination with black double scissor springs from the '73 to '75 range, confirmed with the blank rear tangs ('73, '75, and '77 only). Far too many out there to ignore, and I have several examples from various lines/models. See the camping date thread for some of what I have on inlays and I put some of the awl info in my intro thread.

Perhaps the most compelling proof I have are knives with the exact same construction...main line with nickel silver scale inlays and SS Hoffritz inlays and tang stamp. Or maybe the mid- '70s Outdoorsman and Picnickers with nickel silver inlays that correspond to the Ranger and Camper counterparts with SS inlays.
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #764 on: April 07, 2019, 09:13:49 PM »
Yes, I should say scissors has large screw and awl has pre 83 tip  shape ;) I date it as 1980-1983 only due to steel Victorinox inlay emblem. They changed nickel silver emblem inlay to steel one around 1980, at least I don't know another version. Do you?

I forgot...There's also the Wood Saw tip...yours has the pre- c. '79 version.  ;)
Sr. Member Posts: 438
Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #765 on: April 07, 2019, 10:32:18 PM »
Thanks for the answer, Kamakiri! So 1980 is not first year for stainless shield? All 1970s knives I have with double black scissors spring, blank blade stamp etc. have nickel silver inlay but I trust you. So my Hoffritz Champion is from late 1970s.
BTW do you know Hoffritz's name for Champion? They called it Super Knife (picture from 1979 Hoffritz catalog. Yes, they used old picture with clip point blade )
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #766 on: April 08, 2019, 12:19:21 AM »
Thanks for the answer, Kamakiri! So 1980 is not first year for stainless shield? All 1970s knives I have with double black scissors spring, blank blade stamp etc. have nickel silver inlay but I trust you. So my Hoffritz Champion is from late 1970s.
BTW do you know Hoffritz's name for Champion? They called it Super Knife (picture from 1979 Hoffritz catalog. Yes, they used old picture with clip point blade ) (Image removed from quote.)

Wow. Excellent pic and info! Thanks, jnoxyd!  :cheers: And thanks for your trust on the matter.  :)  As the new guy here, I really appreciate it.  :hatsoff:
I'm not really surprised by the clip point in their catalog...I have examples with odd, old parts.

And no, 1980 isn't the first of SS inlays. I don't think I'm the first to say it either. I remember a post from jazzbass about a c. '75 Elinox Outdoorsman that has an SS Elinox shield. (I have one of those too - I'll dig up that thread and add to it).  That post was probably the first that got me doubting the published and convention regarding the '80 change date. My own collection of Rangers, Hoffritz, Fisherman and Camper inlays supports the earlier change, as well as other construction details that I've observed and documented. I also have several of the nickel silver ones from the '70s, Elinox shields from the early '70s through to c. '79 in other models like Explorers, Passenger, Champions etc. so I've done a lot of side-by-side comparisons to verify.
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 2,380
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #767 on: April 08, 2019, 02:59:51 AM »
Amazing detail, information and pics lads - I am just thinking how we get this into the Wiki and/or my dating spreadsheet ?   ???   :o

Nice Hoffritz catalogue - I always liked Hoffiritzs and have three or four including what I always thought was a SwissChamp - So should I be calling it a Super Knife?  Or was that only the Champion?

So here's a question and observation - The catalogue calls the blade a spear-point blade - Which I think is wrong - and BTW is a common mistake -  SAKWiki also often calls this blade a spear-point
I believe a spear-point blade has sharpened edges on both sides of the point ?  Think of ..... errrm ..... a spear  :think:   :whistle:

I believer the classic Swiss Army Knife blade has a drop-point blade - As the smooth unsharpened top of  the blade drops down to the point

What say you?  ???
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #768 on: April 08, 2019, 07:00:27 AM »
Amazing detail, information and pics lads - I am just thinking how we get this into the Wiki and/or my dating spreadsheet ?   ???   :o

 :dunno: I thought that was up to you!  ;)

The hard part is that so much of the info is also model and line dependent. For example these are in chronological order L-R:



SS Fish c. '75 black spring thin liner clearly a c. '75 SS shield (to me)
SS Auto c. '76 gray spring thin liner
NS Auto Special c. '77/78 thin liner
NS Fish c.'78/79 gray spring thick liner

And we know that much earlier 'brass fish' were used in the '60s, so those have gone back and forth in evolution so to speak...and twice since both Autos and Fish go back to stainless after '80.

Gets even weirder when I insert some Hoffritz in chronological order:


The Hoff Fish in the middle is c. '78 but has no Fish inlay
The next Hoff Fish c. '79 has the V2 SS Fish and a late V1 Hoff inlay.
Last is an '80 Hoff Camper with the V2 Hoff inlay with the '80 awl (and of course the post-c.'79 wood saw).


Nice Hoffritz catalogue - I always liked Hoffiritzs and have three or four including what I always thought was a SwissChamp - So should I be calling it a Super Knife?  Or was that only the Champion?
We need to find a Hoffritz catalog after '86 to find out! I have some of those Champs but no idea if they got a newer name. Worst part is I think I've seen that page before...before I cared about this subject!  :facepalm:


So here's a question and observation - The catalogue calls the blade a spear-point blade - Which I think is wrong - and BTW is a common mistake -  SAKWiki also often calls this blade a spear-point
I believe a spear-point blade has sharpened edges on both sides of the point ?  Think of ..... errrm ..... a spear  :think:   :whistle:

I believer the classic Swiss Army Knife blade has a drop-point blade - As the smooth unsharpened top of  the blade drops down to the point

What say you?  ???
I think you're right, but some of the older knives did have machined bevels on the top side/spine in the curved area toward the tip. Never to a sharp edge, but still very visible.
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #769 on: April 08, 2019, 07:05:19 AM »
And how about something more fun in the mean time?  :D

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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,934
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #770 on: April 08, 2019, 07:45:18 AM »
 :like: :drool:

Barry
No Life Club Posts: 4,142
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #771 on: April 08, 2019, 05:41:19 PM »
And how about something more fun in the mean time?  :D

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:like: :gimme:  I'd settle for just the box.  :tu:
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #772 on: April 08, 2019, 05:50:34 PM »
:like: :gimme:  I'd settle for just the box.  :tu:

HA! But it's *not* up to FB standards...missing the label/box end flap. Oh, and all that TAPE holding it together!
Sr. Member Posts: 438
Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #773 on: April 09, 2019, 10:45:33 AM »
One more Champion today. I believe it is one of the first mod.1973 with mag glass and Phillips line. It still has 2.7mm main blade with Victoria Officier crossbow stamp and clip point small blade.

Here's mod.1973 in early 1970s catalog and booklet. There's +Pat stamp on can opener, just curious why?
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,814 aka "G-Fiddle" and "Glen-Fizzle"
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #774 on: April 09, 2019, 11:58:44 AM »
 :like:

[--- arms length ---] (-.-) 

                                ^-- where the cat sits
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,934
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #775 on: April 09, 2019, 04:21:11 PM »
Me too!

Barry
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 2,380
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #776 on: April 10, 2019, 01:44:44 AM »
Here's mod.1973 in early 1970s catalog and booklet. There's +Pat stamp on can opener, just curious why?

As in you mean 'Why does a catalogue from 1973 have a picture of a CO with a PAT stamp when the PAT stamp was withdrawn in 1971?"

I think I know the answer - Sometimes Victorinox were lazy about updating their pictures    :o   

Take a look at the second tool guide in the Identifiers section of this Champion page
This is for the 1985 revision of the Champion which introduced the chisel and the new version of the backspring screwdriver.

However the image in the guide is of the previous Champion version (see the other tool guide on that page) with the old SD and no chisel - even though the chisel is written in the text - and they put a 25 on the diagram where the chisel would be! ie They just re-used on old image.

There is even a more recent example - No excuse with new digital capability!!
Check out the XAVT from the 2017 (current) Vic catalogue in the image below
The model described is the new revision of the XAVT with the Wenger wrench - See the tool list - But if you look at the piccie - It's the old one with 2 x mag glass !!

Fascinating !!    ::)

« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 06:24:11 AM by Huntsman »
Hero Member Posts: 658
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #777 on: April 10, 2019, 03:41:51 AM »
One more Champion today.(Image removed from quote.) I believe it is one of the first mod.1973 with mag glass and Phillips line. It still has 2.7mm main blade with Victoria Officier crossbow stamp and clip point small blade.
(Image removed from quote.)
Here's mod.1973 in early 1970s catalog and booklet. There's +Pat stamp on can opener, just curious why?
(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)

Excellent!  It certainly is early '73. *Maybe* even late '72 production.  I have a c. '72 Master Craftsman w/ smooth phillips and no can key... and your scissors (esp. machining) look more like those than my later blank rear tang late-'73 Champion. You should side-by-side review it against your c. '73 Outdoorsman and see all the construction similarities...and the minor differences.

My belief is that the red 35 model catalog was published for c. '73 release. Not later than say '75. The pictured prototypes could have been made with +PAT parts from c. late '71 or even '72.  Not that I'd know, but I'm certain catalogs weren't produced very quickly back then. Ditto for all the magnifier models and misc. prototyping happening c. '73.
Full Member Posts: 125
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #778 on: April 10, 2019, 10:15:31 PM »
Here's the real McCoy  8)  Nice to see it in a catalog!
Actually, I've always loved this knife, because it's the only colored Small Huntsman I have (and I do have several...). Does anyone know what brand or company that is? I have no idea...   
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 2,380
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #779 on: April 10, 2019, 11:03:09 PM »
Have you tried searching on the internet for Dolder?  ??? :pok:  (maybe images)
If you do - You will find it. 
Not the hotel in Zurich  - It's in Basel

 

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