Vintage SAK Owners Club

[TonySal]

Here's the real McCoy    Nice to see it in a catalog!
Actually, I've always loved this knife, because it's the only colored Small Huntsman I have (and I do have several...). Does anyone know what brand or company that is? I have no idea...

I dont see a saw buddy, so did ya mean Climber (Spartan w/scizzors )?

[jnoxyd]

Here's the real McCoy    Nice to see it in a catalog!
Actually, I've always loved this knife, because it's the only colored Small Huntsman I have (and I do have several...). Does anyone know what brand or company that is? I have no idea...

Very nice knife Herman! It is really rare for it's color/size/age.

[Herman]

"Have you tried searching on the internet for Dolder?    (maybe images)"  -> Oh, ok it's an 'L' in the middle, pfff... 
Don't think they've won an award with their logo...

[TonySal]

I have a, I think, Climber with a metal file, maybe Mountineer?
Only awl and small straight driver under corkscrew as back tools.
Screw scizzors, metal TW tip, lines on the corkscrew.
Wiki was close... was a Swiss Jewel Co. giveaway.....
Thanks for the help!   

[El Corkscrew]

I'm curious, what defines vintage to y'awl when it comes to Swiss Army Knives??

[gustophersmob]

I'm curious, what defines vintage to y'awl when it comes to Swiss Army Knives??

In M0rkoni’s 1st post in the thread, he gave these guidelines:

“let's say, from the beginning around 1890 till ca. 1970., all sizes old timers and both brand (Victorinox & Wenger) in one place, are most welcome.”

Though I doubt anyone would be too strict if you’re outside that 

[TonySal]

I have a, I think, Climber with a metal file, maybe Mountineer?
Only awl and small straight driver under corkscrew as back tools.
Screw scizzors, metal TW tip, lines on the corkscrew.
Wiki was close... was a Swiss Jewel Co. giveaway.....
Thanks for the help!   

my dad had this one, prior to the 70's I'm sure..

[Huntsman]

I have a, I think, Climber with a metal file, maybe Mountineer?
Only awl and small straight driver under corkscrew as back tools.
Screw scizzors, metal TW tip, lines on the corkscrew.
Wiki was close... was a Swiss Jewel Co. giveaway.....
Thanks for the help!   

Tony - What is your question here please?     
Are you asking what model you have? or what age is your model? or what?  - It is not clear !

For sure it is not a Climber if it has a file, if it is Spartan plus scissors and file - It is a Mountaineer
If it has the back-spring screwdriver, by my definition - It is not vintage! See below .... as the back SD came in in 1977
....... And also not a Mountaineer - As I don't think that model had one

For Model queries see here:
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+91mm
For dating queries see here:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.msg1629826.html#msg1629826

Could be a custom model for the Swiss Jewel Company - If so please describe all tools layers etc -  and we could put in in the Wiki as variation

[Huntsman]

I'm curious, what defines vintage to y'awl when it comes to Swiss Army Knives??

For me anything with a bail or earlier - Nothing later - As that is basically what we have today - So cannot be vintage !
Although I would be tempted to say it has to have exposed rivets and/or old awl or earlier

[El Corkscrew]

Thanks, sirs gustophersmob & Ralph! Since this thread began five years ago, do you think the definition should extend to 1975 now?

[kamakiri]

See below .... as the back SD came in in 1977

Disagree there. The back SD shows up c. '73.

jnoxyd's c. '72/'73 Champion below is a good example.  As well as several black scissor spring knives I have. Anything with the nail cleaner tip on the metal saw (aside from the exceptions like Outdoorsman and Hoff LE2, etc.).

One more Champion today.(Image removed from quote.) I believe it is one of the first mod.1973 with mag glass and Phillips line. It still has 2.7mm main blade with Victoria Officier crossbow stamp and clip point small blade.
(Image removed from quote.)
Here's mod.1973 in early 1970s catalog and booklet. There's +Pat stamp on can opener, just curious why?
(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)

[Huntsman]

Ah OK - Thanks K

My date came from the SAAM's blog
So it looks like SAAM's is wrong - It has been wrong on lots of other items !!!

The piccie of the file certainly has a nail cleaner tip which it says came in in 75 - Or was that 73 too!!   

Are you sure about 73 - ie Same time as mag glass and inline phillips .........  Would make sense ie for the new seven layer Champion

If so I can change in my spready and that date is also in the wiki in a couple of places !!

[kamakiri]

Ah OK - Thanks K

My date came from the SAAM's blog
So it looks like SAAM's is wrong - It has been wrong on lots of other items !!!

The piccie of the file certainly has a nail cleaner tip which it says came in in 75 - Or was that 73 too!!   

Are you sure about 73 - ie Same time as mag glass and inline phillips .........  Would make sense ie for the new seven layer Champion

If so I can change in my spready and that date is also in the wiki in a couple of places !!

It's just what *I* think! 

The SAAM's blog was a good place to start, but if you check it against almost any post by jazzbass regarding the matter...you can quickly see the inconsistencies. I wasn't kidding when I said I read every post of his back into the 2015 range. It confirms and refines a lot of the dates I've found on my own the hard way. 

[MiniChamp]

My date came from the SAAM's blog
So it looks like SAAM's is wrong - It has been wrong on lots of other items !!!

The situation with the (wrong) 1977 date for the backside fine screwdriver is actually more complicated, because the source of this isn't just SAAM's, but the "official Victorinox chronology" (as it appears in the document Everything you need to know about Multi-tools and cutlery and also in both the second edition and the third edition of the book by Derek Jackson). However, as Kamakiri correctly pointed out and JAZZBASS previously explained in detail, we very clearly see this fine screwdriver appearing along with the magnifying glass just before the end of the Victoria era. Hence, 1973 is probably the best year one can assign to it.

The piccie of the file certainly has a nail cleaner tip which it says came in in 75 - Or was that 73 too!!   

Yes, 1973 is probably the best year to assign to this change of the file tip as well.

If so I can change in my spready

If you are going to change your "spready" you may want to also look at the 40 posts that accumulated in the relevant thread after you posted the last version and contain many suggested corrections. 

[Huntsman]

......
Yes, 1973 is probably the best year to assign to this change of the file tip as well.If you are going to change your "speedy" you may want to also look at the 40 posts that accumulated in the relevant thread after you posted the last version and contain many suggested corrections. 

As the third last of those 40 or so posts says .......

.......
Give me a while to process it -
I think a couple of principles (that are already listed in the sheet) will stand:
- The table is mainly for 91mm
- Dates are always estimates !!
To those I might add - That I will concentrate on visible/external changes - Eg: Some of the spring changes are very subtle!!
 
Having said that I will get it as accurate as possible - and also try to get as much into the chart as I can

So, surprise, surprise - We will have a version X  !!    ......And probably beyond !
..............

All those 40 posts with their amazing level of detail and information and other stuff that has accumulated in the last year - is why it has not happened yet!!
(and SAKWiki and real life too of course)

Backspring sd 1977 --> 1973 is easy !!

PS. It's a 'spready' - ie spreadsheet - Not a 'speedy'

[jnoxyd]

Ah OK - Thanks K

My date came from the SAAM's blog
So it looks like SAAM's is wrong - It has been wrong on lots of other items !!!

C'mon friends, SAAM created its wonderful site 10+ years ago, this site was one of the best at that time and yes, it used the existing dating at that time. I really like it so far. I recently asked him about corrections in some dates, but apparently he is busy with other things now. Anyway, thanks to him for his work.

[Huntsman]

Aha We finally find someone who knows Mr Saam - Brilliant I always assumed he had a secret identity!! 😳
I assume from the site that it is connected with vsakcs - right?

Hey no-one is saying it’s not a great site and we don’t appreciate it - it is and we do - for many of us it was the starting point of our SAK collecting and dating journey
I refer to it in my dating spreadsheet thread and  have pointed many people to the site - and I usually use the same adjective as you to describe it ie wonderful
But if it is wrong on some dates and we all collectively agree on that ...... What is wrong with calling that out?   
As you say time has moved on and we know more. And also as we have mentioned SAK dating is as much an art as a science.

Btw he did update the backspring Phillips dates within the last year or two - I noticed that!!
H

[MiniChamp]

C'mon friends, SAAM created its wonderful site 10+ years ago, this site was one of the best at that time and yes, it used the existing dating at that time. I really like it so far. I recently asked him about corrections in some dates, but apparently he is busy with other things now. Anyway, thanks to him for his work.

I don't know SAAM, but to the best of my understanding, the site was created in October 2009 (just under 10 years ago) and its creation was discussed in this MTO thread. In spite of limited activity (about two weeks in the second half of October 2009 and three days in March 2014) this thread is still an important source of information about certain SAK evolution issues that I don't recall seeing discussed elsewhere (such as the removal of the 7.5cm mark from the fish scaler around 1987).

There is no doubt that SAAM's site is indeed "wonderful" in that it does a great job of presenting things very clearly. Unfortunately, it contains some inaccuracies and many tools have more natural variants (that can be used for dating) than what it shows. For me, this raises the following question: How can we get to the point of having something similarly nice, but better? 

[M0rkoni]

84mm

[Barry Rowland]

 

[M0rkoni]

... this thread is still an important source of information about certain SAK evolution issues that I don't recall seeing discussed elsewhere..."

That was my main point about this thread. From my first post here:

"NOTICE:
It would be so nice and most useful if you already made a topic with some vintage knives in the past that you include that link in your post here. Just to keep everything in one place and tidy. Also, when you do a post, please include some useful info if you know regarding that particular model (year of manufacture, model name, number etc.) or simply ask if you don't know and somebody will answer, for sure.

As time goes by this topic could grow into a huge database of useful and much needed information about vintage SAKs if all of us put in some effort. That's my goal and general idea.
Thanks guys and gals."

[jnoxyd]

84mm

Cool 84mm ! Thanks  for sharing, Marko

[M0rkoni]

Cool 84mm ! Thanks  for sharing, Marko

Thank you... You're welcome Julius

[jnoxyd]

Champion with 39 teeth saw

Picture for MiniChamp :

[M0rkoni]

 

[kamakiri]

I certainly don't mean any disrespect for the SAAM's blog.  It certainly was useful getting started with production evolution/chronology for me.  It has a clear and easy to understand format. I just wish it was updated.

84mm

Very nice!  Recent acquisition?

Champion with 39 teeth saw
(Image removed from quote.)
Picture for MiniChamp :
(Image removed from quote.)

  Nice knife! You should send me the Champion for, uh, metal saw cleaning.   

[jnoxyd]

Haha, thank you! What is your treatment for rust metal saw? Acid?

[M0rkoni]

Very nice!  Recent acquisition?

Thank you, no it's not recent. Its one of mine 84mm. I manage to grab it before some time and it's in an excellent condition.

[kamakiri]

Haha, thank you! What is your treatment for rust metal saw? Acid?

 

Yes, as a last resort for anything that doesn't come off mechanically, I attack it chemically...whatever it is. The worst knives need to go back and forth between the two.

Thank you, no it's not recent. Its one of mine 84mm. I manage to grab it before some time and it's in an excellent condition.

. I certainly looks excellent! Just curious. I'm trying hard not to expand my collecting to pre WWII era knives...but knives like yours make me reconsider!

[jnoxyd]

Yes, as a last resort for anything that doesn't come off mechanically, I attack it chemically...whatever it is. The worst knives need to go back and forth between the two.

Can you say what acid/concentration/temperature or it is top secret? Once I tried ortophosforic acid low concentration and got nice deep patina