Vintage SAK Owners Club

[kamakiri]

Can you say what acid/concentration/temperature or it is top secret? Once I tried ortophosforic acid low concentration and got nice deep patina

Eesh. That's what I fear once I go chemical. I suspect you left it in too long?

The stronger treatments are TOP SECRET hush-hush.    The strongest need to be used only for spot treatment and immediately neutralized.

But the first thing I use if needed is just acetic/white vinegar at room temp. Even with that, I keep exposure brief. I try to do most of the cleaning mechanically, as it's 'safest' and easiest to control.

[MiniChamp]

...this thread is still an important source of information about certain SAK evolution issues that I don't recall seeing discussed elsewhere...

That was my main point about this thread. From my first post here:

There seems to be some confusion here. I was writing about (and providing a link to) another thread, titled "Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution," that was started in October 2009, discusses the formation of SAAM's site, and is available at this URL: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,14646.0.html

Of course, the current thread is also a great resource! 

[MiniChamp]

Champion with 39 teeth saw
(Image removed from quote.)
Picture for MiniChamp :
(Image removed from quote.)

Cool!     Can you show (or describe) the tang stamps on the main blade of this Champion? Thanks!

[TonySal]

...any assist on my "Climber with a metal file?" screw scizzors I cant find a spring for, metal TW,  grooved El Corkscrew?

[Huntsman]

Please see my original reply ...... 

Tony - What precisely is your question here please?     
Are you asking what model you have? or what age is your model? or what?  - It is not clear !

For sure it is not a Climber if it has a file, if it is Spartan plus scissors and file - It is a Mountaineer
If it has the back-spring screwdriver, by my definition - It is not vintage! See below .... as the back SD came in in 1977  1973   
....... And also not a Mountaineer - As I don't think that model had one

For model queries see here:
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+91mm
For dating queries see here:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.msg1629826.html#msg1629826

Could be a custom model for the Swiss Jewel Company - If so please describe all tools layers etc -  and we could put in in the Wiki as variation

[TonySal]

Please see my original reply ...... 

Sorry and thanks! Asking the experts.  Yes, model, maybe I didn't Wiki enough... year? my dad had it when I was young and I am now 65 ...
It is a basic Climber tool set add metal file. Only back tools are the awl and a flat type driver/scraper kinda hidden by the corkscrew which has the ridges, 4 turns.
The belt pouch is a brown basket weave type, on the belt loop is stamped  28-009 but I may have purchased it later. Oh, the Tweezers has a metal tip too.
Hoping to add to this great effort- The scizzors spring (screw scizzors) I can't replace with ones I just got from a certain Knife Shop, should have left the half broken, it worked...
And as mentioned Swiss Jewel Company on reverse, regular Vic shield on the obverse.
Thanks dont sweat it, again, just contributing!  May try to get an Avi shot if necessary.
Thanks again gang 

[cody6268]

Sorry and thanks! Asking the experts.  Yes, model, maybe I didn't Wiki enough... year? my dad had it when I was young and I am now 65 ...
It is a basic Climber tool set add metal file. Only back tools are the awl and a flat type driver/scraper kinda hidden by the corkscrew which has the ridges, 4 turns.
The belt pouch is a brown basket weave type, on the belt loop is stamped  28-009 but I may have purchased it later. Oh, the Tweezers has a metal tip too.
Hoping to add to this great effort- The scizzors spring (screw scizzors) I can't replace with ones I just got from a certain Knife Shop, should have left the half broken, it worked...
And as mentioned Swiss Jewel Company on reverse, regular Vic shield on the obverse.
Thanks dont sweat it, again, just contributing!  May try to get an Avi shot if necessary.
Thanks again gang 

I think they do sell springs that fit, but they're exclusive to the special toolkit for replacing springs, and I am not spending $60 on that for $5 worth of springs I need. Figure it's easier just to send them off to Vic. Besides, the only one I need to have the spring replaced on has a bunch of other issues, so it will be going as a part of my next batch to be sent off to Vic. I try to send off 4-5 with issues at a time to help offset the high UPS shipping.

[Huntsman]

Hey Tony

So this sounds like a custom Mountaineer to me - Custom as they have added the fine screwdriver on the back of the file - which would be normal for a Champion from that period, but not a Mountaineer.
Maybe it was customised for the Swiss Jewel Company - as they thought the fine SD would be good for jewelers - eg Prizing back off watch or watch spring etc

I used to have a lot of confidence in my dating spreadsheet - However now I get very nervous with my dates, as there are way more knowledgeable people than me around, who correct me.    However .....
I would say the model comes from 73-78. 73 as you have the SD and four looped corkscrew 78 as you have metal tipped tweezers
Does the file have the smooth end or does the file surface go right up to the tip? That would but it before or after 75

You can check the file and screwdriver shapes here - This is the SAAMs site we talked about earlier in this thread - So bear in mind some dates are out! eg Corkscrew and SD!
http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#finescrew

The double spring came in  in 75 too - So a Vic replacement spring could fit - It is quite hard to get in without the special tool but can be done
If the scissors had the single leafed spring I think a newer spring can still be used if you pinch the wee loop with pliers a bit to make it smaller ? 

Hope that helps

[jnoxyd]

Cool!     Can you show (or describe) the tang stamps on the main blade of this Champion? Thanks!

Stamps are VO CB and VSS, used c.1952-1957 imho

[MiniChamp]

Stamps are VO CB and VSS, used c.1952-1957 imho
(Image removed from quote.)

Cool!    Thanks! 

[TonySal]

Hey Tony

So this sounds like a custom Mountaineer to me - Custom as they have added the fine screwdriver on the back of the file - which would be normal for a Champion from that period, but not a Mountaineer.
Maybe it was customised for the Swiss Jewel Company - as they thought the fine SD would be good for jewelers - eg Prizing back off watch or watch spring etc

I used to have a lot of confidence in my dating spreadsheet - However now I get very nervous with my dates, as there are way more knowledgeable people than me around, who correct me.    However .....
I would say the model comes from 73-78. 73 as you have the SD and four looped corkscrew 78 as you have metal tipped tweezers
Does the file have the smooth end or does the file surface go right up to the tip? That would but it before or after 75

You can check the file and screwdriver shapes here - This is the SAAMs site we talked about earlier in this thread - So bear in mind some dates are out! eg Corkscrew and SD!
http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#finescrew

The double spring came in  in 75 too - So a Vic replacement spring could fit - It is quite hard to get in without the special tool but can be done
If the scissors had the single leafed spring I think a newer spring can still be used if you pinch the wee loop with pliers a bit to make it smaller ? 

Hope that helps

Sure does help and thanks! 
File does not go all the way to the tip btw.

[kamakiri]

Does the file have the smooth end or does the file surface go right up to the tip? That would but it before or after 75

*cough* '73.

 

The double spring came in  in 75 too

..or c. '71/'72. Could be a bit earlier. I have '72  91mm knives (like Champion 146fmaU and 'Master' Craftsman) which have the new scissor/double leaf spring. Pre-'73 because the aren't black oxide.  c. '71/'72 is a start date range and might just be the LNF change date. Non-LNF might have switched earlier, like '70 or even '69.  Single leafs were still used for a while longer and certainly in 84mm and (I think) for some non-main line like Hoffritz where old stock was 'disposed' or used up.

[kamakiri]

Stamps are VO CB and VSS, used c.1952-1957 imho
(Image removed from quote.)

I think the 2.5mm end pins confirm the date range too?  My guess is that it has an aluminum 'bird head' spacer ~1.6mm thick.

[jnoxyd]

I think the 2.5mm end pins confirm the date range too?  My guess is that it has an aluminum 'bird head' spacer ~1.6mm thick.

Yes, you are right . Also round in cross section bail, rectangular notch on LNF usual for 1952-1957 knives but MiniChamp put this wood saw type into 1954-1955 time range.

[VICMAN]

Stamps are VO CB and VSS, used c.1952-1957 imho

Nice pics jnoxyd!

I have the same Champion model only mine has the phillips screwdriver instead of the cork screw.

It has the same blade stampings.

It was NOS in the box when I bought it.


Click on pictures for best pictures

[Huntsman]

I used to have a lot of confidence in my dating spreadsheet - However now I get very nervous with my dates, as there are way more knowledgeable people than me around, who correct me.   

See what I mean !!
I had a feeling that you'd say exactly that! ie 75 --> 73

Although I even asked for corrections in my dating thread - I am just dealing with the tidal wave
- And it's all good - As the collective knowledge improves!!

[kamakiri]

Nice pics jnoxyd!

I have the same Champion model only mine has the phillips screwdriver instead of the cork screw.

It has the same blade stampings.

It was NOS in the box when I bought it.


Click on pictures for best pictures

 
Excellent example VICMAN!!

See what I mean !!
I had a feeling that you'd say exactly that! ie 75 --> 73

Although I even asked for corrections in my dating thread - I am just dealing with the tidal wave
- And it's all good - As the collective knowledge improves!!

I've been meaning to 'get in' that thread...it would just take time to compile the backup data, pictures and catalog cuts to further the discussion. I think to M0rkoni's point in creating this thread, it's easier to discuss chronology when you're already looking at a picture example of a knife and various members are estimating/evaluating it's likely production date. I think it's more fun with the interaction.

Otherwise, I'll try to behave.   

[Huntsman]

^^^ Yep agreed - My plan for the next update to that spready is to review:

• The comments since the last issue in that thread
• Then this thread

And for the Wiki updates - To review

• The thread on Officer's knives
• Then the other one on the Craftsman

[M0rkoni]

I think to M0rkoni's point in creating this thread, it's easier to discuss chronology when you're already looking at a picture example of a knife and various members are estimating/evaluating it's likely production date.

 

[VICMAN]

Excellent example VICMAN!!
 

Thanks kamakiri!

[jnoxyd]

It looks like 84mm Super Tinker with LNF is not so common as 84mm Climber small LNF What do you think?
 

[Mechanickal]

I think...

I'm in love

[VICMAN]

It looks like 84mm Super Tinker with LNF is not so common as 84mm Climber small LNF What do you think?

Very nice duo jnoxyd!

[jnoxyd]

Thanks VICMAN

[Huntsman]

It looks like 84mm Super Tinker with LNF is not so common as 84mm Climber small LNF What do you think?

I think  ........ I'd be happy (and amazed!) to own either of those !!

[kamakiri]

It looks like 84mm Super Tinker with LNF is not so common as 84mm Climber small LNF What do you think?
 (Image removed from quote.)

Methinks you're right!  I only have the corkscrew type in 245ka (shiny silver single leaf spring and 5 turn CS, +PAT) and the same c. '79 in 91mm.

145ka(?) - my guess is a custom order. Nice knife and thanks for sharing!

[jnoxyd]

Mod.1908 from 1942 with not very common blade stamp





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[kamakiri]

Nice Hoffritz catalogue - I always liked Hoffiritzs and have three or four including what I always thought was a SwissChamp - So should I be calling it a Super Knife?  Or was that only the Champion?

We need to find a Hoffritz catalog after '86 to find out! I have some of those Champs but no idea if they got a newer name. Worst part is I think I've seen that page before...before I cared about this subject! 

Found it...The Hoffritz SwissChamps were called: 'Deluxe Super Swiss Army Knife' cat. #11452 in 1987 and/or possibly updated to #11460 in 1988.

[jnoxyd]

Found it...The Hoffritz SwissChamps were called: 'Deluxe Super Swiss Army Knife' cat. #11452 in 1987 and/or possibly updated to #11460 in 1988.

Great find! Can you show pictures please? I believe there are many funny names for other knives

[kamakiri]

Great find! Can you show pictures please? I believe there are many funny names for other knives

from 1987:


And yeah, very funny names.  Going through all the Hoffritz stuff here, it's strange how they generally followed all the 'standard' US market names...until they didn't c. '74...and wow.

My favorite so far is that their 84mm Master Craftsman #136 was actually called that back in the '60s.     And the 91mm 136U was simultaneously called a Craftsman #2236.  I long suspected that too, but also found that yesterday in the 1960 catalog.  Numbers for both stayed the same in the '68 catalog, but the names aren't used.

But this has gotta be my favorite thing to find: