from 1987:(Image removed from quote.)And yeah, very funny names. Going through all the Hoffritz stuff here, it's strange how they generally followed all the 'standard' US market names...until they didn't c. '74...and wow.My favorite so far is that their 84mm Master Craftsman #136 was actually called that back in the '60s. And the 91mm 136U was simultaneously called a Craftsman #2236. I long suspected that too, but also found that yesterday in the 1960 catalog. Numbers for both stayed the same in the '68 catalog, but the names aren't used.But this has gotta be my favorite thing to find:
But this has gotta be my favorite thing to find:
Oh Dear Maybe for the Australian market?
You are right, here are pics for illustration (Image removed from quote.)But they called lately 84mm Master Craftsman ... Explorer (Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)
And then in '79 the Hoff 'Explorer' grows to 91mm and numbered F11037...all crazy. I still need to find one of those.
So Victorinox didn't produce 84mm Master Craftsman after 1978. BTW here are both sizes together:(Image removed from quote.)
It looks like 84mm Super Tinker with LNF is not so common as 84mm Climber small LNF What do you think? (Image removed from quote.)
Very nice find. This is only the third one of these I've ever seen. ColoSwiss had one with MOP scales and I have a red scaled version with bail (that I got from ColoSwiss for a SwissChamp XL). 145ka for yours, 145kaU for mine. All look to be from around the same time period (late 1960s) but with different variants could be three separate production runs. Which would make you think there were more of them out there, but no... they're one of the rarest post WWII 84mm knives.
I suspect main line production stopped for 84mm Master Craftsman by/before '76 based on the '76 dealer catalog showing the Fish Scaler version. '78 end date could be right for the Hoffritz versions. My guess is whenever the 84mm metal saws ran out. My latest (Hoffritz) is c. '76 production. After that any Hoffritz should have an inlay.
I still need to find a date for when the T&T was 'normally' included on the 91mm versions. Seeing yours makes me think it could be '65-'66.
The newest 136kmaU (84mm Master Craftsman) I've ever seen dates to about c. 1972/73. This is from a sample size of about 50. The earliest I've seen is c. 1960 with hidden rivets and the large triangular awl. 1974 seems to be when Victorinox really made a massive change in their product lines and philosphy - revamping all of the 91mm products (2.7mm > 2.4mm blades, clip point to spear point, dropping the LNF), changing some stuff on the 93mm lines (Elsener > Victorinox), and really starting to de-emphasize the 84mm and position it as more of a kid/economy product vs. just being slightly smaller variants of the 91mm line. Post 1974 you almost never see and 4 and 5 layer 84mm knives with the exception of a couple special runs, and 3 layer 84mm are all but gone by the early 1980s. 84mm metal saws were still used in special runs through the 1980s (I have an 84mm Grand Prix small from c. 1986), and 84mm scissors were still used in a handful of small runs in the early 90s, but then they to go the way of the dodo.
I think you're correct with c. 1966. In the period 1962-1969 there's a major change to the wood saw from a 29 tooth asymmetric style (29TA) to a 29 tooth symmetric design (29TS - the current design). Numbers suggest that this change happened c. 1966. When you look at Master Crafsman knives from this period, almost every knife with a 29TA saw = no T&T, and almost every knife with a 29TS saw = T&T.
There are another two knives I've not seen often: 84mm "Hiker" and ""Camper" small, mod. 137kU and 237k. Who of you has such knives?
Here`s another one with original sheet, produced for General Motors, end of the 50-ies.
I just posted links to several Victorinox catalog compilations in the catalogs thread. I find it intriguing how some of the recent discussion here seems to be reflected in differences that can be observed between the "Gesamt-Katalog bis 1970" and the "Gesamt-Katalog bis 1980." The attached image shows, side by side, the catalog page with the list of Victoria officer's knife models from the "Gesamt-Katalog bis 1970" (I'm guessing that the actual page is from the early 1960's) and the corresponding page from the "Gesamt-Katalog bis 1980" (I'm guessing that the actual page is from the early 1970's).Most of the changes involve models getting manually deleted in the newer catalog. I believe that this reflects the withdrawal of these models in the early 1970's or slightly before then. One can see, in particular, the withdrawal of most 84mm models with more than two layers (with the notable exception of the three layer models with scissors), as discussed above by JAZZBASS. There are also some other subtle differences, such as the fact that model 136mU in the older catalog is replaced by model 136maU in the newer one (something that was also discussed above).
might the documents be Jan '69 and comparing Jan '69 to July '71?
On the first/left doc, it would be nice to have the pics that correlate to: "the 12 illustrated models" and "the other 24 master-selling models"
Probably not. While I don't know what the numbers are, I don't think that they designate dates (also XII isn't 7 and the right page doesn't seem to be doing by itself any kind of comparison). Moreover, the theory about 136mU being replaced by 136maU around 1966 suggests that the left page is from before 1966.
A picture of "the 12 illustrated models" is precisely the content of the preceding page in each of the actual PDF Gesamt-Katalog documents. I'm not familiar with any picture of "the other 24 best-selling models."
Returning to 84mm Master Craftsman:Three wood saw types:(Image removed from quote.)
And I should have asked what 'bird head' spacer is on the middle one. I suspect nickel silver and not aluminum. I'd expect aluminum on early '60s with hidden awls.
I've seen you asking about the pen blade spacer - what exactly would you like to know about these?
BTW - have you posted pics of your 136kmaU from 1976? Love to see those - that's the latest one of these I know of.
I'm trying to use it as a tool to date knives in the mid-'60s. Use of aluminum seems pretty consistent for indicating early 60's and nickel silver used exclusively after some date. It seems to differ enough from other mid-'60s features like saw teeth and polishing and the earlier tweezer head material change over.
It's weird because it's almost like they went 35TAP > 25TAP > 35TAM > 25TSM*.