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Something to help you date your Vic SAKs based on tool evolution

Huntsman · 120 · 21319

au Offline Huntsman

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Note 3/18, 1/20: Check the posts in this thread for the evolving versions of the document and discussions regarding tool evolution ....
The information in the later versions of the spreadsheet has been sourced from many more places than the original two below - Mainly MTo threads and discussions!  :tu: - and should be more accurate too!


Latest version (Sept 2018) here :



Quote
Click here for a larger copy of the image -> (Image removed from quote.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Guys

Here is something I was messing around with this evening.
It is a little pictorial to help you date your SAKs based on tool evolution.

It's a bit rough and ready (actually it's probably not even ready  :( )
And does assume that you know about the diffrent tool evolution changes (eg I've not explained differences in detail and used abbreviations etc - But I can tell you OSS means Old Soldier Style.
You may find it useful.

The dates came from the SAAM's website and that sheet from Urwys Wyss of Victorinox

Probably best if you use my table alongside the SAAM's website to see the piccies
I like my table as you can see which changes happened at the same, or similar, time and it gives one overall picture.

I'd like to tidy it up a lot so any suggestions gratefully received

Cheers
SAK tool dates.jpg
* SAK tool dates.jpg (Filesize: 137.21 KB)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 06:40:40 AM by Huntsman »


us Offline SAK Guy

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ch Offline Etherealicer

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Can we have this in the SAKWiki somewhere?

also :salute:
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


00 Offline Caranthanus

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 :2tu:


au Offline PTRSAK

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excellent work.

one addition I can think of... 

There is a 3rd style mag glass. the newest one has clear plastic frame and glass lens. not sure of year but it's quite recent.


au Offline Huntsman

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Hey - Thanks for comments guys
Version II is already in production - Will update next week sometime :)
Maybe after some more feedback

V2 is already looking much better


il Offline Shalom

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Looking Forward to  Version  2.
Thanks !


spam Offline J Mackrel Jones

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Great chart !    :tu:
How can I print it on my HP computer and printer?
The work takes on a life unplanned
and the painter finds the painting directs the hand


spam Offline comis

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Thank you!

I have always wanted one, and this is great service!


au Offline Huntsman

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Hey Guys

Thanks for positive feedback - It has inspired me to put in a bit more effort into V II so..
Here is a much, much better version. I am much happier with this  :)
  • Tools and features added
  • Better formatting 
  • Abbreviations removed
  • More user friendly and easier to read
All feedback welcome - positive, negative or whatever

I need to cross check this with some info from Detron too
Would also love it if some of the real SAK gurus commented (Icanfixthat, Jassbass, enki etc)
Eg I hope I got the dates right.

I am sure there will be a V3 (... at least).

@ J Mackerel - This is a pdf - So I am hoping you can download and print.
If this does not work I can send another way

Later addition: Added jpeg piccie too
* Victorinox Tool EvolutionII.pdf (Filesize: 372.35 KB)
Victorinox Tool EvolutionII.jpg
* Victorinox Tool EvolutionII.jpg (Filesize: 189.51 KB)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 12:06:47 PM by Huntsman »


spam Offline J Mackrel Jones

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Hitting Save As and then printing it from My Documents did the trick !
Thanks Huntsman !
I am glad to have this excellent info on paper "for my files".
It would be appropriate maybe to have your monicker on it, and date, like in the Notes window.  I wrote them on my copy.

The chart has 1937 as the first date for cellidor (cellulose actetate butyrate) scales but the early plastic scales were celluloid (which shrank and then cracked at the pins). CAB was invented in 1938 and I think not used for the SAK scales until 1944 or later (CAB as Cellidor was patented in 1952).

Also the new reamer and the hidden rivets may not have happened the same year:  there are quite a few Vics with the old reamer, with scale cutout for opening it, and hidden rivets.  For both to happen in 1961 would mean the factory was making both cutout and non-cutout scales (both with hidden rivets), and both types of reamer, the same year.  Could be I guess...

« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 05:01:23 PM by J Mackrel Jones »
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and the painter finds the painting directs the hand


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #11 on: October 23, 2014, 06:23:20 AM
Hi SAK Friends

Here is the updated version III
Thanks for your feedback - I have tried to take it into account.

Also some commentary on what this table tells us:
  • The screwdriver and scissors have had the most design changes
  • Every single tool except the Cybertool, Chisel and Combi Tool have undergone some sort of redesign
    • And I believe even the CT had some very subtle changes
    • I am counting being withdrawn (golf tool, long nail file) as a 'redesign' !!
  • 1950ish to 1985ish - There was quite a lot of new tools and tool redesign
  • Since then not a lot has happened toolwise - Except the hook and Cybertool (which is great of course)
    • Compare this to Wenger who were always brining out new and innovative designs, tools, knives
    • I guess Vic could have been concentrating on other lengths eg 111mm and of course they are still around !

PS. Whoa, Cool - I created a nested list on the forum (kinda by accident!!)
SAK DatingVIII.jpg
* SAK DatingVIII.jpg (Filesize: 210.83 KB)
* SAK DatingVIII.pdf (Filesize: 379.71 KB)


us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #12 on: October 23, 2014, 01:18:51 PM
Wow! thanks for the info and for your time collecting it.

I do believe the bit holder for the Cybertools have been changed a tad. Not so sure about the tool itself.

Nate

Nate

SEND IT!


spam Offline comis

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #13 on: October 23, 2014, 01:39:36 PM
Thank you for the update and kind effort, they are really useful for dummy like me to date vintage SAKs.  :cheers:


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #14 on: October 23, 2014, 01:41:51 PM
Outstanding!

 :salute: :tu:

If you fill the lines with different background colours, it will be easier to read. Like this:

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #15 on: October 27, 2014, 03:46:35 AM
Good idea PFR

Two new versions w minor other changes

If anyone wants the xcel source for this just let me know via a PM
* SAK DatingVerIV.pdf (Filesize: 383.98 KB)
SAK DatingVerIV.jpg
* SAK DatingVerIV.jpg (Filesize: 208.61 KB)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 03:48:23 AM by Huntsman »


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #16 on: October 27, 2014, 03:50:10 AM
 :hatsoff:


us Offline detron

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:bump:

this is awesome
If I can help, let me know 


de Offline Storky

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That's great  :ahhh :cheers:
Thank you so much  :salute:


us Offline Joe58

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Nice job! Appreciate the effort you put into creating this.

 :salute:
🇨🇭


au Offline sak60

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Thanks Huntsman for the time and effort great resource
Andrew


gb Offline VoetSak

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It is a really very cool piece of work. Any chance that you can add the locking notch on the caplifter 91mm (I believe this to be 1999 - 2000). Half stop on caplifter 84mm (2012?). Pin hole in scales (date unknown). Change from nickel to stainless inlay (1978?).

All my dates are very theoretical :rofl:


au Offline Huntsman

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Thanks for all your comments team - Glad to be of assistance  :D

VS - Great feedback - ^^^ - I already have a Version 5 with minor updates so I will add your suggestions and republish here shortly.


au Offline Huntsman

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Well here it is .... tadah .... The latest and greatest Version 5.

Quite a few significant changes from V4 - Can't remember them all but here are some I can  :D
  • Voetsaks suggestions incorporated - (see above) - Thanks mate
  • File changes described more clearly
  • Magnifying Glass changes described more clearly
  • Saw changes described in more detail (eg tooth count!)
  • Later dates corrected/added
  • Some formatting & cosmetic changes - Hope the thicker lines are OK for you - They look much better in the xcel!
As always chaps - All suggestions/corrections gratefully received.
There are still quite a few '?' left on the sheet.

Hope this is useful and thanks for all the comments and feedback so far
* SAK Dating MTo VerV.pdf (Filesize: 388.79 KB)
Vic Tool Dates MTo V5.jpg
* Vic Tool Dates MTo V5.jpg (Filesize: 116.22 KB)


gb Offline VoetSak

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Bump - because its awesome...

Does anyone know when Vic transitioned away from the awl without the sewing eye on the 84mm series?

I cant seem to dredge up anything.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 02:37:14 PM by VoetSak »


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #25 on: January 21, 2016, 07:20:58 AM
Well folks - This seems to me a constantly evolving tool - As I learn more information (.... mainly from MTo!)
So here is version VI
And thank you to all from who I have learned information - I hope you know who you are !!  :)

SAK dating is always as much an art as a science - However I think we are 'getting close' with this version!!



Quite a few changes this time:
  • We have new columns for: The main blade - showing thickness and some tang stamps; The Technicians screwdriver
  • New rows for 1909, 1923 and 1974 !!
  • Various corrections and updates eg scales column
  • Various formatting changes - Eg introduced the vertical lines, got rid of the nasty thick black lines - I hope this helps
As always - Any feedback on technical content or formatting, usability etc etc - gratefully received  :tu:

Piccie via photbucket above - PDF attached - Let me know if you want the source xls or a jpeg etc
The pdf image is a lot clearer for some reason - Strange as the jpeg was snipped from the pdf!!

And don't forget Detron's spreadsheet - Which approaches this same information a different way!
* Vic Dating MTo VerVI.pdf (Filesize: 481.19 KB)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 07:27:56 AM by Huntsman »


ro Offline Corwyn

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #26 on: January 21, 2016, 08:09:43 AM
The pdf image is a lot clearer for some reason - Strange as the jpeg was snipped from the pdf!!

Jpgs are lossy and use a system giving a sort of gaussian blur to compress photos... that's why you never use it for text and vector graphics. For those, png or gif are better  :whistle:
Jpgs are nice for raster images, where blurring is less visible.
Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.


00 Offline undertaker99

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #27 on: January 21, 2016, 08:12:13 AM
when you push down on the inline phillips and it moves down a little this is the newer version this is a good way to tell if you have the glass magnifier lens or the plastic one
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 09:08:12 AM by undertaker99 »


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #28 on: January 21, 2016, 08:22:09 AM
The pdf image is a lot clearer for some reason - Strange as the jpeg was snipped from the pdf!!

Jpgs are lossy and use a system giving a sort of gaussian blur to compress photos... that's why you never use it for text and vector graphics. For those, png or gif are better  :whistle:
Jpgs are nice for raster images, where blurring is less visible.

Ah - Thanks Corwyn - Although there are some teccie terms in there which I recognise - But don't totally understand what they mean!! Will look them up or ask a buddy!!
But I guess it means: use jpegs for pictures and png for images from xcel powerpoint etc !!!

Also my bad - This image actually is a .png - That is what my snipping tool generated!
But it is still blurry  :(

The pdf really is very clear  :tu:


ro Offline Corwyn

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Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
Reply #29 on: January 21, 2016, 08:34:22 AM
Also my bad - This image actually is a .png - That is what my snipping tool generated!
But it is still blurry  :(

You really are trying to make me eat my words, right?  :P
Yes you are right, that is what I meant, but your photo is not blurry because it's a png. It must be something Photobucket did to create the resize and create the preview.

Look here at the actual file. No blurring.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y339/SAKHuntsman/SAK%20Dating/Vic%20Dating%20MTo%20VerVI_zpszktrfkfo.png

And here it is reuploaded via Picasaweb:
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 08:36:41 AM by Corwyn »
Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.


 

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