Self defense Folder, deployment method.

[sawman]

My best defensive has always been leaving. Sometimes Quickly 

+1 

[captain spaulding]

To each there own I guess. I would rather have the option than not. Besides every day cutting tasks which is obviously why I carry a folder there are dog attacks all the time and if you have a dog latched onto your arm or leg good luck getting it to let go or stop attacking you. A folder is invaluable and could most definitely save your life or someone else in that sort of situation. You don't have to worry about the dog taking your weapon and using it against you either. No thumbs. 

[Kampfer]

This thread had turned to different direction unexpectedly.
There are people who believe a folder can be use in self defense while others do not.   
Let's agree to disagree.

let me rephrase the question I asked at the beginning: What is your favorite deployment method for folding knife?

[captain spaulding]

This thread had turned to different direction unexpectedly.
There are people who believe a folder can be use in self defense while others do not.   
Let's agree to disagree.

let me rephrase the question I asked at the beginning: What is your favorite deployment method for folding knife?

Spydie hole for me. It offers the most reliable deployment for me. When I use something with a thumb stud I find a lot of half deployments or my thumb looking for the thumb stud. The Spydie hole offers a very easily found and deployed method.

[jerseydevil]

This thread had turned to different direction unexpectedly.
There are people who believe a folder can be use in self defense while others do not.   
Let's agree to disagree.

let me rephrase the question I asked at the beginning: What is your favorite deployment method for folding knife?

Spydie hole for me. It offers the most reliable deployment for me. When I use something with a thumb stud I find a lot of half deployments or my thumb looking for the thumb stud. The Spydie hole offers a very easily found and deployed method.

+1  With Kershaw's Speedsafe AO system a close second actually.  I carried a Scallion or Leek for a long time, still two of my favorite carry blades. 

[Kampfer]

I found "wave" is the quickest, funniest way to play with, maybe not the most reliable however.
I mod my 746 with "nut job" which offers wave, stud & hole altogether.

[bmot]

A thumbhole for me (Spydiehole, or other brands). I find lots of thumbstuds get hooked to my pocket when clipped, and are just less good looking.

[comis]

To each there own I guess. I would rather have the option than not. Besides every day cutting tasks which is obviously why I carry a folder there are dog attacks all the time and if you have a dog latched onto your arm or leg good luck getting it to let go or stop attacking you. A folder is invaluable and could most definitely save your life or someone else in that sort of situation. You don't have to worry about the dog taking your weapon and using it against you either. No thumbs. 

Capt, you brought up a very interesting point, not to drag away from the discussion any further...let me just say, instead of using a knife for self defense, I will much rather to have:

A. My Dog:


Or
B. My green little friend:


 

I found "wave" is the quickest, funniest way to play with, maybe not the most reliable however.
I mod my 746 with "nut job" which offers wave, stud & hole altogether.

Maybe I am a little MTcentric, so I too do like the LM OHO blade quite a bit.  I think part of the reason being most OHO blades on LM are not directly centered, so the other fingers could have a good grip and leverage to help open the blade.

I am mixed about thumstuds, and it all boils down to how the geometry and design of the knife.  For example, regardless how much time I spend on it, I still dislike the CRK thumstuds.  But on the other hand, I love my Brisa Enzo Birk 75 and how well it open and close.

I am never a Spydie fan, but the 111mm Vic OHO Trekker really did reignite my interest in thumbholes.  Currently I do like the newly acquired Benchmade Bone collector(with thumbhole) quite a bit and warming up to Spydie offerings.

[nate j]

I've been avoiding responding to this thread since I didn't want to become embroiled in the debate about the use of folders for self defense.  So, I won't comment on that at all, but will answer the questions originally asked.

Let's say you carry a folder for self defense, do you believe one hand open is absolutely necessary?

I'm sure some people have successfully defended themselves with folders that were not OHO.  However, if one were shopping specifically for a folder for self defense, I would think OHO would be a prerequisite.

What is your favorite deployment method? thumb stub, hole, assist, wave?

If favorite means what I use the most, the answer would be 2HO using a nail nick.  For OHO knives, I usually pinch either the handle or the blade and use inertia to flip them open, so it doesn't matter if they have a thumb hole, thumb stud, or neither.  I believe the wave must be the fastest way to open a folder, since the draw and open happen at the same time in a single motion.  While I find the wave very clever, I personally don't generally carry waved knives since (1) the selection is limited, (2) they are hard on the pockets, and (3) I can usually access any knife I carry reasonably quickly, and don't foresee many situations in which the extra second is going to make a difference (and if I thought I would need to get a knife out with all possible speed, I would probably opt for a fixed blade over a folder).  Finally, I don't like assisted knives.

Do you think such method is totally reliable under pressure in a split of second?
Or old fashion two hand open is more reliable?

No method is totally fail-safe.  However, the fewer motions are required, the less complex those motions are, and the more one practices, the more sure any chosen method becomes.  With regard to the final question, note that any OHO knife can be opened with two hands, if desired, but the reverse is not true.

[zoidberg]

I've been avoiding responding to this thread since I didn't want to become embroiled in the debate about the use of folders for self defense.  So, I won't comment on that at all, but will answer the questions originally asked.

+1.

Let's say you carry a folder for self defense, do you believe one hand open is absolutely necessary?

I think it could be useful. Absolutely necessary, no.

What is your favorite deployment method? thumb stub, hole, assist, wave?

Of the options given I like thumb stud then spydie hole then flipper.
Not on your list but balisongs are fast and fun lets not forget autos.

Do you think such method is totally reliable under pressure in a split of second?

Yes, I'm opening a knife not defusing a bomb.

Or old fashion two hand open is more reliable?

If you have an issue with the easy step of one hand opening, I don't see how using two hands will transform you into a more coordinated person.

[pfrsantos]

Just found out: YES, WE CAN!

 

[jekostas]

If you have an issue with the easy step of one hand opening, I don't see how using two hands will transform you into a more coordinated person.

Opening a knife one-handed (regardless of practice or method) requires fine motor skills.  Under stress, said fine motor skills tend to disappear very, very quickly.
Even *with* practice, you're much more likely to launch your knife about 10 feet away than successfully open it in the event that you are in danger and actually need it.

It's not something that can be hand-waved away with "practice more".

[zoidberg]

If you have an issue with the easy step of one hand opening, I don't see how using two hands will transform you into a more coordinated person.

Opening a knife one-handed (regardless of practice or method) requires fine motor skills.  Under stress, said fine motor skills tend to disappear very, very quickly.
Even *with* practice, you're much more likely to launch your knife about 10 feet away than successfully open it in the event that you are in danger and actually need it.

It's not something that can be hand-waved away with "practice more".

I was trying to be subtle. Using it is going to be much harder than getting it open. Whatever the reason for using two hand opening, I hope you have the ability to deal with what comes next.

[dmanuel]

If you have an issue with the easy step of one hand opening, I don't see how using two hands will transform you into a more coordinated person.

Opening a knife one-handed (regardless of practice or method) requires fine motor skills.  Under stress, said fine motor skills tend to disappear very, very quickly.
Even *with* practice, you're much more likely to launch your knife about 10 feet away than successfully open it in the event that you are in danger and actually need it.

It's not something that can be hand-waved away with "practice more".

I'm curious, have you actually deployed or used a folder in a combat situation? Have you received training in using a blade/folder in combat?

Being able to put your thumb on a stud to open it up is no more a fine motor skill than being able to place your thumb on a slide release on a firearm yet many people do that exact thing every single day, successfully.

[ironraven]

IF I can't just leave.
IF I don't have something little louder.
IF I don't have something I can grab and use as I would a sword or short staff.
IF I don't have a fixed blade.

Thumb stud. Much easier to access with gloves on.

[styx]

Well if you got some time then this might be a worth while video to take a look at since it does offer some interesting perspectives

[Styerman]

The efficacy of folders in scraps is hard to argue - old school 60's and 70's Bikers used to polish each other off with Buck 110's and ball pien hammers .

Chris

[styx]

The efficacy of folders in scraps is hard to argue - old school 60's and 70's Bikers used to polish each other off with Buck 110's and ball pien hammers .

Chris

They still do. We always gotta have a shakedown first before we let 2 brothers settle their differences

[jekostas]

I'm curious, have you actually deployed or used a folder in a combat situation? Have you received training in using a blade/folder in combat?

Being able to put your thumb on a stud to open it up is no more a fine motor skill than being able to place your thumb on a slide release on a firearm yet many people do that exact thing every single day, successfully.

Are we talking about a threat display?

Or are we talking about actually using a knife in self-defense?

Because a threat display ie. two guys pulling out knives and waving them around while saying unkind things about each other's mother/spouse/sister/daughter is NOT self defense.  A threat display is "hey, I got this sharp shiny dealie and I'm not afraid to use it unless you stop bothering me/give me your wallet, keys and cell phone".  Based on your earlier post, I think this is what you're talking about.

I don't consider this self defense.  I don't consider two bikers squaring off with Buck 110s as self-defense.  That's dueling.

Self defense is "This guy is coming to stave in my head with a metal pipe and I need to do something about it RIGHT NOW".  If someone is going to attack you, they aren't going to draw their weapon and run at you from 20 feet away screaming battle cries.  They're not going to draw a knife far enough away that you can identify it and react accordingly, they're going to be 2-3 feet away, probably behind you, and they're not going to give you the time and space you need to carefully draw your gun/baton/kuboton/knife/pepper spray/etc.

This is what I think of when I consider self-defense.  This is when I am in immediate danger of suffering grievous bodily harm and I need to do something immediately to stop it and am justified in using lethal force to do so.  Under these circumstances, yes, it is incredibly difficult to draw anything and use it effectively, even with training.

Now, the upside is that unless you work in a situation where such things are expected, a true self-defense situation is exceedingly rare.  The vast majority of violence is escalation from a verbal confrontation or a threat display gone wrong*.  Those situations you can learn how to avoid or to de-escalate.

*Probably not a good idea to tell anyone with a gun to your face that they "don't have the guts to pull the trigger".

[dmanuel]

I'm curious, have you actually deployed or used a folder in a combat situation? Have you received training in using a blade/folder in combat?

Being able to put your thumb on a stud to open it up is no more a fine motor skill than being able to place your thumb on a slide release on a firearm yet many people do that exact thing every single day, successfully.

Are we talking about a threat display?

Or are we talking about actually using a knife in self-defense?

Because a threat display ie. two guys pulling out knives and waving them around while saying unkind things about each other's mother/spouse/sister/daughter is NOT self defense.  A threat display is "hey, I got this sharp shiny dealie and I'm not afraid to use it unless you stop bothering me/give me your wallet, keys and cell phone".  Based on your earlier post, I think this is what you're talking about.

I don't consider this self defense.  I don't consider two bikers squaring off with Buck 110s as self-defense.  That's dueling.

Self defense is "This guy is coming to stave in my head with a metal pipe and I need to do something about it RIGHT NOW".  If someone is going to attack you, they aren't going to draw their weapon and run at you from 20 feet away screaming battle cries.  They're not going to draw a knife far enough away that you can identify it and react accordingly, they're going to be 2-3 feet away, probably behind you, and they're not going to give you the time and space you need to carefully draw your gun/baton/kuboton/knife/pepper spray/etc.

This is what I think of when I consider self-defense.  This is when I am in immediate danger of suffering grievous bodily harm and I need to do something immediately to stop it and am justified in using lethal force to do so.  Under these circumstances, yes, it is incredibly difficult to draw anything and use it effectively, even with training.

Now, the upside is that unless you work in a situation where such things are expected, a true self-defense situation is exceedingly rare.  The vast majority of violence is escalation from a verbal confrontation or a threat display gone wrong*.  Those situations you can learn how to avoid or to de-escalate.

*Probably not a good idea to tell anyone with a gun to your face that they "don't have the guts to pull the trigger".

I was just curious because it sounds like you do not have training in using a blade or have not been in combat yourself. Sure the first firefight I was scared silly, took me a little bit to remember to hit the ground and shoot back, but after that it became reflexive. My experience with folding blades is considerably different because I have never launched one 10 feet through the air while pulling it in extremely close quarters with my adrenaline pumping and life on the line. So it makes me wonder why you have this belief and what it is based on.

Maybe our training is just different, because after my first firefight I never had an issue deploying any of my weapons or returning fire.

[jekostas]

I could equally ask why you're equating combat with self defense.  They're not remotely the same thing.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[dmanuel]

To each their own, but to me combat and self defense are the opposite sides of the same coin.

Physical self-defense is the use of physical force to counter an immediate threat of violence.

Combat or fighting is a purposeful violent conflict meant to weaken, establish dominance over, or kill the opposition, or to drive the opposition away from a location where it is not wanted or needed.

When I defend myself it is combat. Any physical alteration can quickly, even though unwittingly, become a life or death situation and to treat it any different is setting yourself up for a failure that no one can afford. When I defend myself I take purposeful and violent actions that are meant to establish my physical dominance over my attacker and drive him from the location. Sounds a lot like Wikipedia's description of self defense.

Luckily I have never used a blade or firearm in my civilian life for self defense. In the military our standard ROE is not to shoot until we are being shot at which, in my book anyway, is self defense. I don't believe that a uniform or patch on my shoulder changes that. Someone attacked me and now I am returning the favor.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread so much but I find the topic intriguing and thought provoking. I sincerely hope I didn't ruffle your feathers I simply like to here justification for beliefs so that I can also read, learn, or watch the story behind it and develop my own opinions better. At the end of the day it doesn't matter though and we agree on two very specific, and important things. The first is that you will be screwed in a knife fight and the second is that the best engagement is the one that you are never in. Unfortunately though leaving the situation is not always an option and for that reason I try to always have a plan of attack.

[dks]

a lightsaber deploys the fastest 
....

in the olden days we used bottles, baseball bats and beer glasses as they were fast enough.     I am surprised to be around..

Thumbstud or auto seem reliable and fast to me now

[jekostas]

To each their own, but to me combat and self defense are the opposite sides of the same coin.

Physical self-defense is the use of physical force to counter an immediate threat of violence.

Combat or fighting is a purposeful violent conflict meant to weaken, establish dominance over, or kill the opposition, or to drive the opposition away from a location where it is not wanted or needed.

When I defend myself it is combat. Any physical alteration can quickly, even though unwittingly, become a life or death situation and to treat it any different is setting yourself up for a failure that no one can afford. When I defend myself I take purposeful and violent actions that are meant to establish my physical dominance over my attacker and drive him from the location. Sounds a lot like Wikipedia's description of self defense.

Luckily I have never used a blade or firearm in my civilian life for self defense. In the military our standard ROE is not to shoot until we are being shot at which, in my book anyway, is self defense. I don't believe that a uniform or patch on my shoulder changes that. Someone attacked me and now I am returning the favor.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread so much but I find the topic intriguing and thought provoking. I sincerely hope I didn't ruffle your feathers I simply like to here justification for beliefs so that I can also read, learn, or watch the story behind it and develop my own opinions better. At the end of the day it doesn't matter though and we agree on two very specific, and important things. The first is that you will be screwed in a knife fight and the second is that the best engagement is the one that you are never in. Unfortunately though leaving the situation is not always an option and for that reason I try to always have a plan of attack.

In combat, you're equipped, trained and expecting to engage with a hostile opponent.  You're also generally with a group of people in a similar situation.

In a situation of self-defense you're generally alone, wearing street clothes and not expecting to be attacked.

You cannot equate the two because the circumstances are completely different.

[comis]

The first is that you will be screwed in a knife fight and the second is that the best engagement is the one that you are never in. Unfortunately though leaving the situation is not always an option and for that reason I try to always have a plan of attack.

To me, this line is golden. 

In combat, you're equipped, trained and expecting to engage with a hostile opponent.  You're also generally with a group of people in a similar situation.

In a situation of self-defense you're generally alone, wearing street clothes and not expecting to be attacked.

You cannot equate the two because the circumstances are completely different.

I think it is hard to say what people will do in one situation where they won't in another, conflict is conflict, be it in war zone of on the street.  If a bullet is coming my way, whether the shooter is wearing an uniform or street clothes, or I am alone or in a group, I just don't want to be there to receive it.

a lightsaber deploys the fastest 
....

No!  Go to 0:27 and 0:30, and check out how slow Obie and Vadie brought out their sabres!



I am faithful your beer bottle will hit him silly, before he could unleash his sabre. 

[Aloha]

I used to feel having an ASP would be a good defense against a knife but not so much. 
 

[charlie fox]

I prefer thumbstuds for the more positive tactile feedback, but personally I would prefer a fixed blade for defensive work; much less to go wrong.

[glorn]

 


- Without Pics

[pfrsantos]

You don't need a knife for self defense. You just need a good teacher and some training.



 

[cool123]

I believe that the folding knives are considered as the best self defence weapons. I consider folders as best because they can be placed in your pocket for everyday carry.