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Tell me about swisstools... 3757

No Life Club Posts: 1,659
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2014, 09:37:32 PM »
Found it on Sakwiki. I want the Spirit X…
No Life Club Posts: 2,670
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2014, 09:40:28 PM »
lol I got mine from second hand the 'Netherlands' Serena  :D (or should I say "pre-owned'' or "loved by another member of MTO before me !")
trust me they are great tools, the price is way to much IMO but comparable to LM etc
go on you know you want to ;)


I never should've sold that one  :facepalm: :whistle:


Anyway, I got another one, with the serrated blade, and after missing it for too long, I love it even more! :tu:
you did a good thing Tom  :tu:

and Serena on Amazon UK I see one (serrated blade) for £60 (74 euros ? :think:)
No Life Club Posts: 3,572
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2014, 12:32:22 AM »
Found it on Sakwiki. I want the Spirit X…

By far my favourite Vic. plier based Multi !

Use in good health.

Chris
No Life Club Posts: 3,519
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2014, 08:37:57 AM »
they sadly aren't as good on a spirit as the standard Victorinox scissors (as seen in the swisstool/SAKs) due to their limited opening.
verdict on butterknife blade IMO is very nice and it wouldn't put me off the tool.

I have a Spirit X. I actually don't mind the scissors, they don't open much but feel stronger and sturdier than the Swisschamp ones.

Regarding the butterblade, I would actually prefer it to the penknife, as i wouldn't lose functionality, but it would be legal to carry in Romania. Now I can only use it at home and in private warehouses.

Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.
No Life Club Posts: 2,670
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2014, 09:41:41 AM »
the 'serrated' blade on the spirit, while still a locking blade and in the eyes of UK law probably the same as the straight blade, does somehow look less threatening IMO. even though it is the shape of a 'razor'  :think:
and Victorinox serrations are wickedly efficient and will cut rope or fingers with ease !
 
No Life Club Posts: 3,519
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2014, 10:48:58 AM »
I don't think the law applies to butterknives (blunt, rounded knives). I am quite sure I read it somewhere. It's about not being able to use a tool to stab people, not to be unable chop them up into small bits.

Don't take my word for it though...

Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.
No Life Club Posts: 2,670
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2014, 05:41:11 PM »
I'm not totally sure but even a locking SAW blade is dodgy ground here in loopy-land
Newbie Posts: 19
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2014, 06:52:35 AM »
The SwissTool, once you remove that dorky label, is a stunning, timeless piece of the toolmaker's art. Everybody should own one. You'll hand it down to your kids. It should come in a wooden box, it really is that beautiful. Blades glide open and click beautifully. Then they glide closed and click beautifully. The 'engraving' is perfect. It's truly the Rolls-Royce of multitools.

The Spirit is just as beautiful in fit and finish, but I'm not crazy about the curvy handles. They are really effective, making the pliers comfortable to use, but they forgo the 'timeless' engineered vibe of the SwissTool in favour of a more modern, ergonomic look. And in my opinion, you get comfortable pliers at the cost of slightly reduced convenience for the other tools, when you consider that offerings from LM in the same size and weight bracket have OHO blades.

I used to work as a roadie, and a multitool is in and out of your hand all day long. Often it's cutting off tape and ties etc, and while I never had OHO blades back then I'd certainly prefer my LM Charge as a working tool today. However, trying to access the other tools in the Charge is always a bit of a pain, they get stiff, two tools come out together, you mash up your fingernail, you know the drill. The Leatherman seems to need constant use and a bit of periodic cleaning and oiling to keep it singing.

The Vic tools can sit in a garage for 10 years and each tool will still glide in and out like silk.

I suppose my summary would be that I prefer the Vic tools, I take them camping and other situations where I get real pleasure out of using them. Slicing an apple or a fine blue cheese with a Leatherman just seems wrong. But for day to day grind work, the convenience of modern OHO blades would probably win.

BTW I have the Spirit S. When camping I like a serrated blade for cutting food (tomatoes, steak etc) as well as hacking through the odd bit of nylon rope, and a separate flat blade for everything else. Never been that crazy about scissors.
No Life Club Posts: 1,486
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2014, 04:52:03 PM »
Folks here have covered it pretty well, but I'll emphasize two things:

1. Leatherman quality control is spotty. Leatherman has everything made overseas and all they have to do is assemble the pieces, and they have problems even doing that right!  And even when they get it right, it pales in comparison to Victorinox.

2. Leathermans are very prone to rust due to their polish and quality of steel. Do a search and see the results.  Here is one thread: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50694.msg853225.html#msg853225

Leathermans from the early 90s, and Leathermans made now, are two different creatures. I have an original Supertool that is still solid, rust free, and doing good service after 20 years of abuse. Too bad Leatherman doesn't make 'em that good anymore.


 



No Life Club Posts: 4,247
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2014, 05:45:10 PM »
Folks here have covered it pretty well, but I'll emphasize two things:

1. Leatherman quality control is spotty. Leatherman has everything made overseas and all they have to do is assemble the pieces, and they have problems even doing that right!  And even when they get it right, it pales in comparison to Victorinox.

2. Leathermans are very prone to rust due to their polish and quality of steel. Do a search and see the results.  Here is one thread: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50694.msg853225.html#msg853225

Leathermans from the early 90s, and Leathermans made now, are two different creatures. I have an original Supertool that is still solid, rust free, and doing good service after 20 years of abuse. Too bad Leatherman doesn't make 'em that good anymore.

As much as I love my Swisstool(s) and Spirit(s),  I find this a bit harsh on Leatherman tools. 

I agree that there's quite a bit of fit and finish difference when I compare my '94 Original Supertool with the current ST300, but in no way have I ever felt that the ST300 was not up to any of the jobs that I've thrown at it.  And when I'm doing some work at home (renovating etc.) I always find myself grabbing for my trusty ST300, and when I go hiking/camping I always take my Swisstool/Spirit with me ...

I think it's the superior phillips screwdriver and the replaceable cutters that make me pick my ST300 for work that mostly involves these two tools, while it's the better rust resistance and all outside accessible tools that make me pick my Swisstool/Spirit for EDC or hiking/camping.

Just my humble opinion of course  ;).
Hero Member Posts: 815 Kershaws, Zebralights, SAKs, and Leather Men.
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2014, 06:07:17 PM »
Folks here have covered it pretty well, but I'll emphasize two things:

1. Leatherman quality control is spotty. Leatherman has everything made overseas and all they have to do is assemble the pieces, and they have problems even doing that right!  And even when they get it right, it pales in comparison to Victorinox.

2. Leathermans are very prone to rust due to their polish and quality of steel. Do a search and see the results.  Here is one thread: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50694.msg853225.html#msg853225

Leathermans from the early 90s, and Leathermans made now, are two different creatures. I have an original Supertool that is still solid, rust free, and doing good service after 20 years of abuse. Too bad Leatherman doesn't make 'em that good anymore.

That's just not true. Everything made overseas? No, just no. I've been to their factory, and took their tour. Most of their tools are made there, with few exceptions of parts.

"Quality of steel" is a ridiculous bit of misinformation, and they do not use lesser "quality" steel. They use steels that are not as stainless as what Vic uses, and finishes that aren't as polished. I haven't had rust issues with any of my Leatherman tools.

Yes, this is the Swiss forum, and I myself am a huge fan of SAKs. However it's very bothersome that someone has to come into a thread here and defend LM against misinformation.

Personally, I prefer LM multi-tools to the SwissTools. I've had a few, and am left with a couple Spirit RTs. Never use them. The plier head is really kind of a bummer. It's not that it has a little play, it's that every SwissTool I've had (2 SwissTools, 4 Spirits) have had floppy pliers. The wire cutters are just awful. They barely work. The scissors on the Spirit X are better for thinner wire.

The knife blade on the Spirits are disappointing as well. I know it's a compact tool, but for its actual size, it's lame having a blade that I get in a 91mm SAK. The LM blades are larger, more robust, and in every case, arrive sharper out of the box than the SwissTools. 420HC is a very good steel, and the 154CM of the Charge AL is a great steel for what one would do with it.

The Philips driver on the SwissTools is good, and I like it because it's essentially the same as what's on a SAK. However my Syph custom SAK gets more screwdriver use because the way the handles of the SwissTools flare out cause a really awkward driving experience. I don't get that with a Charge or Wave, or even the Rebar. The Rebar's (and the ST's) Philips driver is superior I think.

LM, in my opinion, makes a better plier-based multi-tool. It's built more robustly, has better implements, and the warranty they provide is far and away superior to the service I've gotten from Vic. I sent in two Spirits for floppy pliers, and both times got back the exact same tool with no fix at all and no note explaining anything. Each time, I waiting two months. That's unacceptable to me personally (your own tolerances will certainly vary), and I've become accustomed to the quick, no-questions-asked service that I have always received from LM.

Very obviously, I'm in the minority here. However that's what I feel, and what I've encountered. It's not right to lie about a company that makes great products and snub them for credit that they indeed deserve.

"If you put Bacardi in my glass again and try to tell me it's rum, I will burn this bar to the ground!"

-A paraphrase of something I read, to which I related strongly.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,169 Little to the right...
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2014, 02:27:32 AM »

Damn, this makes me wanna buy a Spirit even more!!! But which one, with the knife or with scissors?
That is a question that has been haunting MTOers for a long time now!! :D  Of course, the answer is both! :rofl:


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No Life Club Posts: 1,223 His name is Robert Paulson.
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2014, 03:30:44 AM »
Folks here have covered it pretty well, but I'll emphasize two things:

1. Leatherman quality control is spotty. Leatherman has everything made overseas and all they have to do is assemble the pieces, and they have problems even doing that right!  And even when they get it right, it pales in comparison to Victorinox.

2. Leathermans are very prone to rust due to their polish and quality of steel. Do a search and see the results.  Here is one thread: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50694.msg853225.html#msg853225

Leathermans from the early 90s, and Leathermans made now, are two different creatures. I have an original Supertool that is still solid, rust free, and doing good service after 20 years of abuse. Too bad Leatherman doesn't make 'em that good anymore.

That's just not true. Everything made overseas? No, just no. I've been to their factory, and took their tour. Most of their tools are made there, with few exceptions of parts.

"Quality of steel" is a ridiculous bit of misinformation, and they do not use lesser "quality" steel. They use steels that are not as stainless as what Vic uses, and finishes that aren't as polished. I haven't had rust issues with any of my Leatherman tools.

Yes, this is the Swiss forum, and I myself am a huge fan of SAKs. However it's very bothersome that someone has to come into a thread here and defend LM against misinformation.

Personally, I prefer LM multi-tools to the SwissTools. I've had a few, and am left with a couple Spirit RTs. Never use them. The plier head is really kind of a bummer. It's not that it has a little play, it's that every SwissTool I've had (2 SwissTools, 4 Spirits) have had floppy pliers. The wire cutters are just awful. They barely work. The scissors on the Spirit X are better for thinner wire.

The knife blade on the Spirits are disappointing as well. I know it's a compact tool, but for its actual size, it's lame having a blade that I get in a 91mm SAK. The LM blades are larger, more robust, and in every case, arrive sharper out of the box than the SwissTools. 420HC is a very good steel, and the 154CM of the Charge AL is a great steel for what one would do with it.

The Philips driver on the SwissTools is good, and I like it because it's essentially the same as what's on a SAK. However my Syph custom SAK gets more screwdriver use because the way the handles of the SwissTools flare out cause a really awkward driving experience. I don't get that with a Charge or Wave, or even the Rebar. The Rebar's (and the ST's) Philips driver is superior I think.

LM, in my opinion, makes a better plier-based multi-tool. It's built more robustly, has better implements, and the warranty they provide is far and away superior to the service I've gotten from Vic. I sent in two Spirits for floppy pliers, and both times got back the exact same tool with no fix at all and no note explaining anything. Each time, I waiting two months. That's unacceptable to me personally (your own tolerances will certainly vary), and I've become accustomed to the quick, no-questions-asked service that I have always received from LM.

Very obviously, I'm in the minority here. However that's what I feel, and what I've encountered. It's not right to lie about a company that makes great products and snub them for credit that they indeed deserve.


I agree with all of this.  :salute:

I only carry LM and Vic. I have SAKs and Vic plier tools. I have had lots of LMs.

LM tools and Vic plier tools both have positives and negatives. My LMs are not rusty, I use them, but I also care for them. My Spirit does have some rust.

My Spirit Phillips got marred up with very light use. That steel is softer in my opinion than LM.

I have a Rebar with a floppy side. All the tools are loose.

The LM vs. Vic thing is ridiculous fanboy crap. Period. It is like arguing whether whiskey is better than gin. It depends on taste. And be glad to be so lucky as to have access to both.

I love both. I am very happy with my LMs and my Vics, regardless of issues. When I leave the house, I have one of each on me. Usually a Rebar and a Compact. Or my custom Syph alox and a PST. Maybe my ST300 and a Swiss Champ if I really wanna be hardcore. Sometimes just my Spirit. Sometimes just my Flair.

So...

Meh.

G
No Life Club Posts: 2,670
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2014, 09:55:33 AM »
if only i had a bigger waist i could have a bigger belt and fit more pouches............ :whistle:
"fetch me a doughnut !!!"
 :facepalm:
No Life Club Posts: 2,251 This isn't me, but I'm just as dysfunctional
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2014, 11:54:17 AM »
A belt full of Skinths.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Hero Member Posts: 731
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2014, 03:32:57 PM »
An interesting note regarding Leatherman / SwissTool:
"The Victorinox SwissTool (with fold-out pliers and an assortment of blades, openers, and drivers thicker and stronger than on their pocketknives) was developed with the assistance of Tim Leatherman (who designed his much-copied folding-pliers tool after his rented FIAT “rucksack” broke down in Europe with no tools in the boot)."
The Swiss Army Knife Owners' Manual

The work takes on a life unplanned
and the painter finds the painting directs the hand
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,376
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2014, 03:51:30 PM »
An interesting note regarding Leatherman / SwissTool:
"The Victorinox SwissTool (with fold-out pliers and an assortment of blades, openers, and drivers thicker and stronger than on their pocketknives) was developed with the assistance of Tim Leatherman (who designed his much-copied folding-pliers tool after his rented FIAT “rucksack” broke down in Europe with no tools in the boot)."
The Swiss Army Knife Owners' Manual

 :tu: Thanks for that.  Serena you will be quite happy with the Spirit X and while I also initially complained about the scissors, bottom line is they work.  I used my Swisstool just yesterday and its such a joy to have in hand.  I bought my roommate a Spirit with butter blade and thats the tool she prefers to carry as a Scout Leader.  The butter blade is wicked sharp and quite useful as she pairs her Spirit with a Wenger soft touch.     

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 1,486
Re: Tell me about swisstools...
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2014, 05:25:37 PM »

That's just not true. Everything made overseas? No, just no. I've been to their factory, and took their tour. Most of their tools are made there, with few exceptions of parts.

"Quality of steel" is a ridiculous bit of misinformation, and they do not use lesser "quality" steel. They use steels that are not as stainless as what Vic uses, and finishes that aren't as polished. I haven't had rust issues with any of my Leatherman tools.

Yes, this is the Swiss forum, and I myself am a huge fan of SAKs. However it's very bothersome that someone has to come into a thread here and defend LM against misinformation.

Personally, I prefer LM multi-tools to the SwissTools. I've had a few, and am left with a couple Spirit RTs. Never use them. The plier head is really kind of a bummer. It's not that it has a little play, it's that every SwissTool I've had (2 SwissTools, 4 Spirits) have had floppy pliers. The wire cutters are just awful. They barely work. The scissors on the Spirit X are better for thinner wire.

The knife blade on the Spirits are disappointing as well. I know it's a compact tool, but for its actual size, it's lame having a blade that I get in a 91mm SAK. The LM blades are larger, more robust, and in every case, arrive sharper out of the box than the SwissTools. 420HC is a very good steel, and the 154CM of the Charge AL is a great steel for what one would do with it.

The Philips driver on the SwissTools is good, and I like it because it's essentially the same as what's on a SAK. However my Syph custom SAK gets more screwdriver use because the way the handles of the SwissTools flare out cause a really awkward driving experience. I don't get that with a Charge or Wave, or even the Rebar. The Rebar's (and the ST's) Philips driver is superior I think.

LM, in my opinion, makes a better plier-based multi-tool. It's built more robustly, has better implements, and the warranty they provide is far and away superior to the service I've gotten from Vic. I sent in two Spirits for floppy pliers, and both times got back the exact same tool with no fix at all and no note explaining anything. Each time, I waiting two months. That's unacceptable to me personally (your own tolerances will certainly vary), and I've become accustomed to the quick, no-questions-asked service that I have always received from LM.

Very obviously, I'm in the minority here. However that's what I feel, and what I've encountered. It's not right to lie about a company that makes great products and snub them for credit that they indeed deserve.

I don't mind the knife blade on the Spirit. But then again, the 91mm sized blade is the most blade I've ever needed. If i need more, then I'll get out the mora.  Nor have I had any problems with any of the other tools on the Swisstools.

So LM makes most of their parts and assemble the tools in the US? I stand corrected, and gladly so. :) That's good to hear, but why is their QC so spotty? Yes, that's a relative statement, but there's enough anecdotal evidence to give one pause.
 

I'll stand corrected on the use of the word "quality". It's erroneous to think that rust resistance is a measure of quality in steel.  Leatherman uses good, but less rust-resistant steel. But they do seem to rust more readily than what is considered acceptable. Threads abound with "rusty Leatherman" stories, and again it gives one pause.

For me, its not about any sort of fanboy "Vic vs LM" thing. Ya see, I want to like the new Leathermans. I've come *this* close to buying a Rebar because it has a great tool package and it's under 7 ounces, but the QC and rust issues, though anecdotal, give me pause.  I think the best pairing in the world could be a good SAK and a pliers-based LM. I've used and abused an old Leatherman Supertool for 20 years and I really wish they were still made as good as that.


 

« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 05:47:41 PM by shamus »

 

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