multi tools as fighting weapons ? !

[lonediver]

http://www.donrearic.com/fightingmultitool.html     

[Grant Lamontagne]

As far as I am concerned, anything handy in a fight is a weapon, whether it's a multitool, tactical folder (which I rarely carry anymore) or a tire iron.  I think people forget that anything can be used as a weapon in the right hands.

Def

[plowboy]

I hope to not find myself in a fight, but if you are going against anything but a firearm it's hard to beat (so to speak) a good long stick. 

Lord knows I want to avoid fighting if at all possible...it's nice being a law abiding citizen.

[Grant Lamontagne]

See, now that really depends on the situation.  If you are within 21 feet of your opponent, a firearm is virtually useless unless you want to use it as an impact device.  Studies have proven that one needs a minimum of 21 feet to safely draw, aim and fire two shots, center of mass on an assailant.  And, that's while running backwards on an arc, which is a very difficult thing to do and still hit your target.

Within 21 feet, I'd much rather have a multi to club the hell out of someone with, rather than a gun.

Def

[665ae]

You know, I think it'd take you just as long, if not longer, to get the multi out of the sheath and into a useable position. 

Think about it, you'd have to unsnap the flap on the sheath (or un-velcro it) then grab the multi, lift vertically, and reposition it in your hand while maneuvering out of the assailant's way.

In comparison, the holster I have positons the firearm so that when I grab it, my hand is already in position to fire.  The holster is angled so that when I draw the firearm, my hand/arm is already moving forward.

Either way, I don't think it's possible to simulate a defensive scenario.  There are too many variables to consider... plus I would think the last thing on your mind when your life is on the line is doing things in a "safe" manner. 

[Anthony]

The gears of a closed SOG can definately tear some skin and crack a skull.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Not an option for a police officer.  Public safety is always number one.  After all, how would it look if the officer survived only to find out that a stray bullet went through a crowd or small child?

As for simulating a defensive situation, you are absolutely correct, but the information above was gathere by the LA County Sherriff's department and included in a training video produced by Calber Press called "Surviving Edged Weapons."  If you aren't familiar with Caliber Press, they produce all kinds of training and informational videos for law enforcement agencies around the world.  The information isn't some kind of backyard shenanigans sort of stuff and is considered to be about the best available on the subject.

Def

[Splat]

You know, I think it'd take you just as long, if not longer, to get the multi out of the sheath and into a useable position.  Think about it, you'd have to unsnap the flap on the sheath (or un-velcro it) then grab the multi, lift vertically, and reposition it in your hand while maneuvering out of the assailant's way. In comparison, the holster I have positons the firearm so that when I grab it, my hand is already in position to fire.  The holster is angled so that when I draw the firearm, my hand/arm is already moving forward.

But if the attacker is coming at you a few of the variables are the distance between you, how fast they're moving at you, how skilled you are at drawing your gun, etc.  This can apply to a multi too, but do you practice withdrawing your multi from your sheath? Pro'lly not, even though you may use it often.

[Grant Lamontagne]

This is one of those discussions that really has more to do with Mall Ninja-ism than reality.  The truth is that 99% of the time, the guy whose weapon is out first, also has his weapon out last.  If a guy comes running up the street at you screaming and waving a sword like the black hats in the movies then we'd all be laughing.  Most likely, if you are going to be attacked, it will be by multiple assailants who are using the element of suprise, in which case, try to take as many down with you as you can, because you likely are going down.

It's unfortunate, but true.

Def

[665ae]

I noticed that somehow I edited Def's post above.  I think I've fixed it now.  Damn these new moderator super powers!
Am I supposed to be able to do that?

Not an option for a police officer.  Public safety is always number one.  After all, how would it look if the officer survived only to find out that a stray bullet went through a crowd or small child?

As for simulating a defensive situation, you are absolutely correct, but the information above was gathere by the LA County Sherriff's department and included in a training video produced by Calber Press called "Surviving Edged Weapons."  If you aren't familiar with Caliber Press, they produce all kinds of training and informational videos for law enforcement agencies around the world.  The information isn't some kind of backyard shenanigans sort of stuff and is considered to be about the best available on the subject.

Def

You're right.  It's not "supposed" to be an option for a police officer. I trained for 3 years to be a Public Safety Officer and it was always drilled into my head that you have to pay attention to your surroundings.  I watch some of the "reality" video's on tv, the one's captured by patrol car dash camera's, and in most of the video's where an officer has to fire his gun it's in more of a panic situation than a controlled one.  I've seen some video's of Highway officers getting attacked in 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 type situations and discharge their firearms towards the highway with traffic going by. 

[665ae]

First, don't misunderstand what I'm saying, I am in no way trying to say that having a gun is better or argue anything about self defence.  I just don't believe anyone knows what they would do in a true self defense situation, nor can you simulate one.  I've used handguns for both recreational shooting, hunting, and competetion, including self defence scenario's (www.idpa.com), and honestly am not sure how I would react if someone was rushing me.  I'd like to think I would evade and counter, but until that situation arises, I just don't know.  (I also have other training, but this post is already starting to sound like I'm boasting... and I'm not)

All in all, I think Self Defence is one of those topic's that usually boils down to people thinking they are better at it than they are.  People argue all the time over what tactics are better, what weapons you should use, etc.  Most of them have never been in a real self defense situation.  Thank god that I've NEVER been in one either.  I've been in fights before, but I've never truly feared that my life was in danger.  I hope I never do.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I spent ten years or so working in high risk security jobs until I got hurt- surprisingly when I was between jobs!  I spent alot of time in places where many cops would not go without good reason.  I've been stabbed twice (very unpleasant) and shot once (not as bad as being stabbed, but I still wouldn't recommend it!) and my dog got stabbed as well.

I've done the math, and the time, and the best way to deal with the stuff is to see it coming and deal with it before it happens.

Once it happens, you'll be lucky to walk away.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

Don't worry abotu the edit thing... I've accidentally done it myself once or twice!  Other than feeling kinda silly, it's no big deal!

Def

[CQC-7]

Multitools make good weapons?  In a way yes.  So does a brick in an alley, a carabiner clip (if it is of the larger sort, kind of the size that makes a perfect fit around the fist), A ballpoint pen is also perfectly fine.  If a male attacker is running at you you may just opt to kick them in the groin, or anyone the knee.  Torn ligaments or the feeling of two round objects in the throat usually stops the fight before it begins.  Besides drawing a multi from the sheath or even a tactical folder takes time.  A popular knife fighting book author stated that a leather jacket wraped around the arm protects from an enemy blade but if you have the time you are better off to run and if you dont run you are into knife dueling and you deserve what you get.  Furthermore if you use the multi as a weapon and you hurt your attacker he is likely not dead and probally will sue.  Also to mention some law enforcment officers (not all) will question why you were carrying a knife in the first place though perfectly legal in most places.  In my opinion any man, woman, or child over 6 yrs old has every right to carry a small blade (under 5 inches) or tool for everyday use.  I can recall when a police officer was particularly concerned with the hideaway knife I was wearing around my neck which was not concealed and has a blade just under 2 inches when my friend and I were stopped for speeding one time.  I am just stating that using a weapon (knife, gun, or pointed stick) against an attacker involves lawyers which is a bad thing.  However, the SOG multi tool which I am very fond of would make a great impact weapon.  So would the leatherman wave I carry everyday.  Although, nothing beats good old instinct and avoid situations before they happen.     

[Anthony]

I can't pretend I'm trained in anything...but my common sense goes a looong way.  Look at people without looking, hear people without letting them know, see where their hands are, who's with them, who's in their car...

Don't let anyone surprise you, that's the key I think.

[LatinoHeat]

To follow CQC-7's train of thought, yes a multi can be a weapon, but then so could anything.  However, a weapon means an advantage, a power, and a multitool with either geared teeth or open blade, or thick, heavy steel construction used as a hard bludgeon is a pretty great power, and with any great power comes great responsibility.  I was a self defense instructor for years, and most of my lessons involved awareness training.  Did you park your car under a bright light, or over in the dark corner.  Are you walking towards the OUTSIDE of the sidewalk when rounding a corner, or are you hugging the wall.  Are you standing there with your necklace INSIDE your shirt, or outside for all the world to see.  Are your car doors locked, or unlocked allowing anyone easy access.  When idle at the light, is your car far enough away from the car in front of you that you can see the bottom of his back tires, or are you right on the other car's bumper, not allowing you any mobility should you need it?  Simple everyday things, or an awareness doing them, usually could have made a difference.  Now, granted, that's not always the case, and when push comes to shove, yes, it definitely is better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.  However, make sure that all your bases were covered, or that you did everything you could to AVOID the worst case scenerio.  Remember, even though it may be necessary to use one, a weapon raises the violence level, and if it is taken away from you, or countered with an even more powerful weapon, then what? 
Does this mean don't fight if your life depends on it?
no.
does this mean DON'T use your multi tool as a weapon if it's all you have?
no.
Just some things to think about. 

[CQC-7]

Navajero316 Has the right idea.  Avoidence is great and I would surely rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.  The multi tool remote control panel or in other words YOUR BRAIN can be your best survival tool.  Instincs are to be trusted, learn to develop your abaility, fine tune them.  When speaking about topics such as self defense tools and the like with friends.  I have been known to say that no matter how tough one might think they are there is always someone better, tougher, or more sneaky.  If I can I'd rather drive around the roadblock than try to crash through it especially if I am driving and its my car.   

   

[Styerman]

A multi is a tool , like any tool it can be a weapon of opportunity in a pinch , personally I'd rather have a flashlite . If I had to press one into service , I'd prolly use it as an improvised impact weapon . Deff has it rite , in a "Flash" confrontation you are usually screwed - just like a good ambush . The only time you have any real chance is in a "Brewing " confrontation . Thats mostly about being observant and situationally aware . It also turns on will , you gota want hiss ass more than he wants yours .

If I use a gun , I'll double tap , if I'm going impact or edge I'm looking to make Sushi or Hamburger .

Chris