Okay, why cellidor???

[cbl51]

I love my SAK's, don't get me wrong. Lord knows I've been carrying one since 1968, so I've been through some. Gave away a lot to spread the works. But I wonder why, in this day and age of polymers, why Victorinox has stuck with a compound that is sort of obsolete? No, it is obsolete.

Eventhough the nylon scales are used on the economy SAK's and the 111mm SAK's, and the I think the real modern German army issue, why not just go with something more durable and modern?

I have this family member. He's not a knife guy, nor is he a SAK guy, but he knows he needs a pocket knife. So many years ago, he bought a Gerbeer LST at a sporting goods store. Now, I like Tom, but he's an idiot when it comes to knives. He abuses them, bests on them, uses them for things the designer never imagined in his wildest late at night pepperoni pizza induced nightmare. But that little Gerber LST has stood up for whatever Tom has dished out. I have to admit I'm impressed as hell. The zytel handle has nt cracked, chipped, shrunk, or done anything. With zytel being able to be injection molded in huge production numbers, I wonder if Victorinox wouldn't be better off using it instead of cellidor?

Over the course of using SAK's for as long as I have, I've had to replace a few scales. Once, I had some army issue bug repellent on my hands, and it dissolved a scale on my SAK. Yeah, dissolved! As I sit here drooling, I can only wonder if the bug repellent they gave us in those little OD green bottles was as bad as the agent orange?

But to the core of the matter: is it time for Victorinox to use a more modern and durable scale material?

[sawman]

One question your post raises for me is: can Zytel be made available in translucent colours?

I happen to favor the translucents that are available in Cellidor and also like the smoothness of the scales. I know they wear hard but are economical and easy to replace.

I love my Cellidor

[cbl51]

One question your post raises for me is: can Zytel be made available in translucent colours?

I happen to favor the translucents that are available in Cellidor and also like the smoothness of the scales. I know they wear hard but are economical and easy to replace.

I love my Cellidor

I gotta tell ya I don't know. I do know that color can be mixed right into it. I've seen red LST's, green LST's even a blue LST. I really don't know about translucent though. 

[sawman]

That would be super cool if it is because I also love Zytel

[kirk13]

Is Cellidor broken? Does it need fixing?

I'm not saying I'm adverse to the idea of trying something new,but why change simply for change sake?

I don't mind nylon on 84 and 91mm,but I dislike it on the 111s. They just don't feel like SAKs. I'd not realised this til I'd started writing this,but the tactile value of the SAK is as important as the audible(the classic Snap),or the perceived/reinforced practical(the quality).

I rejected Alox at first because it didn't feel like a SAK,while wood scaled SAKs feel utterly natural.

I fear I'm rambling more than usual...I like Cellidor. It's part of defines what to me is a Victorinox a Swiss Army Knife!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

An interesting point there

I've always been impressed with how tough cellidor actually is, I've dropped them from time to time and I've yet to replace a set of scales

I know there not chemical resistant but I've never subjected them to any so can't comment on that. I am surprised that nylon scales aren't more popular though???

Sent from the astropathic choir.

[Syph007]

My first response was going to be cost.  But really can using other plastic materials cost more.  More likely just keeping with branding and what a SAK looks like I guess.

I very much prefer the nylon scales to cellidor, BUT, the econo scales need the metal inlay for the shield.  The painted on one is crap.

[cbl51]

Is Cellidor broken? Does it need fixing?

I'm not saying I'm adverse to the idea of trying something new,but why change simply for change sake?

If you have a material that has been passed on by with time, and there are better more durable materials to be used, then yes, it is broken and time for a change.

I worked in manufacturing for 30 years, and I saw how easy it is to injection mold zytel. We're talking pennies per unit, with very high speed and no waste. The excess from the mold is tossed into the mix and melted down for the next batch. Time has passed by cellidor, and Victorinox needs to update the scale materials. They updated the design with one hand opening because of the tactical craze, so why not better handle materials? Why do you think the military didn't want the cellidor? The German army and others went with the nylon because of the durability over the cellidor.

I'm happy with my SAK's, but if there's room for improvement, then why not?

[Mextreme]

http://www.albis.com/en/products-solutions/standard-plastic/cellidor/

Actually it has some really attractive proporties for the intended use.

[Corwyn]

My favourite thing about saks is the shiny Cellidor. This is what drag me to them and I can’t get enough of their look and the way they feel in hand.
I have 16 Cellidors, 2 nylons and 4 Aloxes in my collection and all have their charm, but my favourite is by far Cellidor.
The nylon is more resilient and has better grip, but just looks cheap and dull, alox is nice but doesn’t allow backside tools and the coloured one gets ruined in a jiffy.
I said on the other thread that none the nylon saks I had for sale sold, while all the cellidors did (I thank the worn-off painted logo for that). 

Just one thing… I saw people complaining about cellidor getting scratched and cracked.

To be honest I find the scratches far less annoying than in Alox and they are easy to polish and replace if needed.
Regarding cracks.. I had a Chinese knock-off and the scales broke in my hand. I have 6 plastic Wenger… 4 of them had cracked scales (generally around the T&T). About 40 second hand Cellidor Vics passed through my hands this year… haven’t seen a single cracked scale (regardless of the abuse). I’m not saying it’s impossible… only saying it’s far harder than it seems (I have a Camper that went through hell – the corkscrew is bent at 90 degrees and the liner beneath it is scraped and bent really bad – the cellidor is still intact). My SwissChamp is a brick and I dropped it at least a dozen times on both carpet and concrete… not a single crack on it….

[J Mackrel Jones]

http://www.albis.com/en/products-solutions/standard-plastic/cellidor/

Actually it has some really attractive proporties for the intended use.

Albis says "CELLIDOR® is an organic, thermoplastic cellulose ester which consists of approximately 45% cellulose, a renewable natural material."  which is cool.
But also "CELLIDOR® can already look back on over 100 years of market success." but Cellidor was patented in 1952.  Anybody know a little more about the history of this plastic, or plastic in general?  When was zytel introduced?  Might be a good material for the Vic Hunter Pro handles...

[hiraethus]

Zytel is just Dupont's brand name for nylon or polyamide, which is what Victorinox call it (they already use it on the 111mm knives, so it's probably what the Hunter scales are made from anyway).  Nothing particularly fancy about it, other than maybe the fill material.  Cellidor feels nice to the touch but I'm sure with a good enough mould tool you could get a similar finish on nylon.

[RedRamage]

Here's some more data on Cellidor:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-cellulose-acetate-butyrate.htm

[Cupboard]

I'd prefer something more durable than cellidor, one of the scales on my Manager vanished this afternoon for no apparent reason.

[powernoodle]

Part of - in fact much of -The SAK Experience is aesthetic and emotional.  For many of us, cellidor is part of that experience.  Its the same stuff we remember on our first SAK when we were 8 years old.  Its the same stuff we have carried in our pockets everyday for the last 14 years.  Its got dings and scratches that were well earned while we were out there living life.  Its even utilitarian, as holds a pen, pin, tweezer and toothpic.  If it doesn't have cellidor, I'm not sure that its a real Swiss Army Knife.

one of the scales on my Manager vanished this afternoon for no apparent reason.

Oh, it had its reasons.  Maybe it needed some alone time.  We may never know.

[sawman]

Scales can be replaced and it might even be time to change up the colour

[J Mackrel Jones]

"Manufacturer Albis says that this material has a “surface redressing effect”:  scratches tend to disappear during carry and use."
and --
when carving your initials on the scale  "a sliver of scale-plastic on the hand can startle for a moment -- the cellidor is exactly the color of a fresh cut."
The Swiss Army Knife Owner's Manual

[Steinar]

I think cellidor lives on because it is shiny and easy to do printing (company logos and stuff like that for promotional knives) on.

Personally I would love seeing something more durable and chemical resistant, e.g. against stuff like rubbing alcohol and insect repellent. I am one of those who have broken a scale by dropping a knife on a concrete floor (linoleum covered) by accident. I also have a Vic Camper rescaled with G-10. Totally different looks, but I doubt that one will crack if I have the same accident as I had with that small Tinker.

That said, I really like the part of exchanging cellidor scales is so easy even I can do it.

[asmitty]

As has been said above, Cellidor is shiny.  How many of us don't have fond memories of a display case full of impossibly shiny SAKs from our youth.  I

Additionally, Victorinox strives to be an environmentally responsible company and Cellidor's chemical composition supports that given its high percentage of cellulose.

Personally, I also like the way Cellidor shows wear.  It gives my most carried knives a bit of character to see how the scales have worn over time due to tumbling in my pocket with my keys and flashlight.

In short, I guess Cellidor lives on because it look bright and shiny when new, wears well, and is a very environmentally friendly material.

Just because there are newer materials doesn't make Cellidor broken or obsolete.  It's still a very good handle material.  Get some nylon scales if you don't like the Cellidor.

[sawman]

As has been said above, Cellidor is shiny.  How many of us don't have fond memories of a display case full of impossibly shiny SAKs from our youth.  I

Additionally, Victorinox strives to be an environmentally responsible company and Cellidor's chemical composition supports that given its high percentage of cellulose.

Personally, I also like the way Cellidor shows wear.  It gives my most carried knives a bit of character to see how the scales have worn over time due to tumbling in my pocket with my keys and flashlight.

In short, I guess Cellidor lives on because it look bright and shiny when new, wears well, and is a very environmentally friendly material.

Just because there are newer materials doesn't make Cellidor broken or obsolete.  It's still a very good handle material.  Get some nylon scales if you don't like the Cellidor.

Well said

[cbl51]

I think cellidor lives on because it is shiny and easy to do printing (company logos and stuff like that for promotional knives) on.

Personally I would love seeing something more durable and chemical resistant, e.g. against stuff like rubbing alcohol and insect repellent. I am one of those who have broken a scale by dropping a knife on a concrete floor (linoleum covered) by accident. I also have a Vic Camper rescaled with G-10. Totally different looks, but I doubt that one will crack if I have the same accident as I had with that small Tinker.

That said, I really like the part of exchanging cellidor scales is so easy even I can do it.

This is what does bug me about the cellidor. When I was in the army, I ha a nice huntsman I carried. The army gave uys bug repellent in these little olive green plastic bottles. I went to rub some on me, and then I had to use the screw driver. I noticed some red stuff on my hand that felt sticky, and it was material from the SAK handle that was dissolving from the issue bug repellent. Really messed up the scales on my SAK.

Also, some solvents used in cleaning guns can harm the SAK scales.

If there is more durable material available, it should be used.

[asmitty]

As has been said above, Cellidor is shiny.  How many of us don't have fond memories of a display case full of impossibly shiny SAKs from our youth.  I

Additionally, Victorinox strives to be an environmentally responsible company and Cellidor's chemical composition supports that given its high percentage of cellulose.

Personally, I also like the way Cellidor shows wear.  It gives my most carried knives a bit of character to see how the scales have worn over time due to tumbling in my pocket with my keys and flashlight.

In short, I guess Cellidor lives on because it look bright and shiny when new, wears well, and is a very environmentally friendly material.

Just because there are newer materials doesn't make Cellidor broken or obsolete.  It's still a very good handle material.  Get some nylon scales if you don't like the Cellidor.

Well said

Thanks!

[Cupboard]

I like the one Nylon scaled SAK I have which was a gift from a visitor.
I'll never know how he came to get me something so appropriate.

The only thing is you can't get Nylon Plus scales.

[asmitty]

.
The only thing is you can't get Nylon Plus scales.

I could get behind rectifying that.  I think there should be more nylon options (colors, plus scales, etc).