Bikes with shaft-drive?

bmot · **on:** July 19, 2014, 05:33:35 PM

Found these today: http://www.brikfietsen.nl/ (sorry, can't find an English site)

They're bikes with an axial drive, instead of a chain... Does it look good? Seems like a good idea to me, I think...

bmot · **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2014, 05:35:01 PM

gregozedobe · **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2014, 05:39:34 PM

IIRC chain drive (as on most bicycles) is more efficient than a shaft with two gears, and also gives you more gear ratios with wider ratios to choose from (important when it is leg power providing motive force).

Zed · **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2014, 05:42:29 PM

All seems a bit too complicated and as said lacks gears,cool looking though

bmot · **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2014, 05:51:47 PM

Quote from: Zed on July 19, 2014, 05:42:29 PM

All seems a bit too complicated and as said lacks gears,cool looking though

They're actually offered with 3 or 7 gears... Not sure how that works though

MadPlumbarian · **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2014, 06:52:47 PM

Idk, I would think chain would be better. Heck even motorcycles are rubber belt drive. Is that shaft even freestyle? JR

bmot · **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2014, 06:56:21 PM

Quote from: MadPlumbarian on July 19, 2014, 06:52:47 PM

Idk, I would think chain would be better. Heck even motorcycles are rubber belt drive. Is that shaft even freestyle? JR

I believe there are motorcycles with a shaft, as well.... (BMW comes to mind)

Act2uToo · **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2014, 06:57:50 PM

Looks heavy ...

Zed · **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2014, 07:14:43 PM

Quote from: Act2uToo on July 19, 2014, 06:57:50 PM

Looks heavy ...

If it had gears to cover low-ratios then possibly you might come out with a similar weight to deraliurs and chainset etc ? Still prefer chain,
I had a honda cx500 that was shaft drive it was a real workhorse

Another problem i see is a compromise in the double diamond frame design.

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2014, 08:18:39 PM

FN used it on the bicycles in the late 1880s as up to that point bicycle chains were made of leather and consequently pretty crap so a shaft was a great solution

but once chains matured the frictional losses of a shaft drive killed them

Chains have really come to the end of the development now and a lot of bicycles with hub gears are switching to gates belts.

If they have solved the frictional losses issues then I for one would buy a nice clean shaft drive bicycle tomorrow

Sent from the astropathic choir.

bmot · **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2014, 10:21:41 AM

I must say I rather like the look of it. Certainly for here, as a regular mode of transport, it looks quite useful, certainly as bikes here tend to be abused quite a bit... Should be pretty maintenance-free.

They did say in a review in a newspaper somewhere that they pedal slightly heavier than with a chain, but that they got used to it pretty quickly.

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2014, 11:40:43 AM

I doubt we'll see many road bikes with shaft drive, but there's plenty of commuters riding city/urban/cargo bicycles who would love one

Pair it with a Rolhof hub gear and you've got a killer year round bicycle

Sent from the astropathic choir.

Zed · **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2014, 11:44:15 AM

If i lived in a flat area my commuter would be a fixed gear as pretty much maintenance free but your right mike that would make a nice commuter bike

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2014, 11:48:00 AM

I've never ridden fixed, I always planned to give it a go but then my back went a and scuppered that particular plan

Now I have the worlds supply of grannie gears

Sent from the astropathic choir.

PTRSAK · **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2014, 12:06:06 PM

I'm still waiting for someone to make a go of the hydraulic drive bicycle.
A variable displacement pump driven by the pedals and a fixed displacement motor in the hub(s).
Infinity variable gearing and 2WD.
Efficiency could be up there with chain, all it really needs is getting the weight down.

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2014, 12:31:54 PM

I suppose it can be made reliable, but I think most cyclist (me included) are a bit distrustful of anything to complicated on a bicycle

For mountain biking I think it'd be superb, especially for downhill racers as those bikes a bloody heavy already!

Sent from the astropathic choir.

Chako · **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2014, 12:33:54 PM

Yes, my V-Star 1100 Classic motorcycle is shaft driven. No messing around with lubrication and adjustments. Very convenient and maintenance free.

danilo · **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2014, 01:44:07 PM

moto guzzi are shaft driven, if you don't mess with it, it serves for large amounts of kms.
some people love them, others prefer the chain (or belt) but on a bicycle it seems heavy...

RamoN · **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2014, 06:23:07 PM

While its a cool idea i dont really know the actual benefit of that in a bycicle, if they did a full chain cover where the chain would be completely guarded and constantly soaked in oil that would be lighter and the chain would last forever.

In motorcycles, shafts are a lot more maintenance free and durable but they make the bike heavier and they take away initial acceleration and or reaction from the motorcycle. Its a compromise on wether you want a more sporty feel with a lighter bike that reacts almost instantly to the throttle or a smoother feel where explosive acceleration and or weight and balance isnt as important. You cant have an enduro or trail bike with a shaft for example, neither a sporty road one.

In motorcycles today a chain can last nearly as long as 50000km i dont know about bycicles but surely a good quality chain should last as long or more?

Its true that many people that ride bycicles are a lot less concious about maintenance so that might be the possible selling point.

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2014, 06:38:47 PM

I think it depends on your country as well really. I take bicycle maintenance very seriously, and because I'm in the UK everything gets wetter and consequently dirtier than those in more southerly countries , I doubt a chain would last me as long as someone from Spain for example.

The thing that most appeals to me is a shaft can't come of and jam the cassette or worse snap!

Sent from the astropathic choir.

RamoN · **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2014, 07:04:38 PM

Could be, over here people ride bycicles and motorcycles that you cant believe why they are not falling appart

I talked in some motorcycle forums with people over the uk and yes i heard how wary you have to be of rust and corrosion over there, even with tires that you need them always in good shape in wet weather.

Zed · **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2014, 07:15:27 PM

If you maintain all your bike parts they last longer,for example i change my chain every dec and my block usually the same time my chainrings last much longer this way ( unless a car hits you

) brakes get the same maintenance, i clean both my road bike and mtb regularly as makes it easier to check spokes etc,i replaced my whole disc brake calipers today as had some new ones my old front caliper locked up,i actually enjoy bicycle maintenance and saves me time on my rides adjusting stuff

Cupboard · **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2014, 07:22:01 PM

I think my dad would have liked one of them when he was commuting.
He always liked bikes with a fully enclosed chain and hub gears so as not to mess up his suit.

Belt drive sounds good too, a lot of agricultural machines are moving to belts as they get stronger, and belts can last for a long time.

Hydrostatics are OK but for things that are primarily tractive things they're not the best in my and tractor manufacturers' opinions. You get hydrostatic drives in loaders (see Merlo), harvesters (most combines and foragers are hydrostatic) and sprayers, but CVT tractors aren't primarily hydrostatic. You get a hydrostatic element to the drivetrain but most of the power is transmitted mechanically because it's more efficient.

fabregas485 · **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2014, 02:00:56 PM

Some bikes are fitted with a gear system that is inside the hub of the back wheel. If you look on this bike, it has what looks like the same gear hub setup.

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #24 on:** July 21, 2014, 02:13:38 PM

Judging by the size it looks like a three speed, but I could be wrong

Sent from the astropathic choir.

VictorLouis · **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2014, 05:48:17 PM

There are several mfrs of these, but no dealers will carry them. I've looked around my city, of the 6th largest in the US. I also had a customer who managed a few cycle shops. Several of the technical reasons were outlined in this post, though I suspect it only effects riders who fancy themselves in the N'th degree. Cost is significantly greater, which turns off entry and mid-level buyers. For me, however, not having to futz with the filth and adjustments of a chain, and the convenience, it would make a big difference.

bmot · **Reply #26 on:** July 21, 2014, 06:03:10 PM

Reading this thread, I'm getting more and more convinced that this is a good solution for the Netherlands, but not necessarily anywhere else, for some reasons..

- NL is flat, so a high weight is not -such- a big deal.
- In other countries, the people riding bikes are usually more enthusiasts, who will want to take the time to maintain the bike. Here, people see cycling as something logical to do, as a form of transport, and as such just want the thing to work, without having to do much with it.
- Dutch bikes suffer a lot at parking places, mainly at train stations. Having a shaft instead of a chain can make it more damage-proof.

Does that make sense?

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #27 on:** July 21, 2014, 08:26:10 PM

I think they'd be perfect somewhere flat as like you say the weight wouldn't be an issue

dks · **Reply #28 on:** July 21, 2014, 08:56:16 PM

..you talking about Shaft?

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #29 on:** July 21, 2014, 10:41:55 PM

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Bikes with shaft-drive?

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