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Super Tool 300 vs New Surge 5072

Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,805
Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« on: August 03, 2014, 02:27:56 AM »
Ok now that I got you here I have to admit this is not a comparison.  It's more of my rethinking of the Super Tool 300 vs the New Surge.  I thought the outside opening tools on the Surge and other LM's made them superior for my usage than the other offerings.  I also felt that having scissors on my MT meant I had it all and then some. 

 
I recently got a ST300  I also got another New Surge  :whistle:.   Many of you all know I LOVE MR PINCHY..........  Oh wait focus,  I love the Surge and got a SS one that I could thrash on rather than my BO one.  I was surprised the differences were few and there were more similarities.   

I didn't think I would like the ST300 because it doesnt have OHO tools.  I also thought I'd miss the scissors, and bit driver ( actually I do ).  I also thought the extra weight of the Surge "didn't matter" but, and I say this very hesitantly, it kinda does.  Those extra few ounces does add up especially when you consider you'd probably be carrying the bit kit. 

They pretty much have the same capability with a few exceptions.  I have changed my thoughts about the ST300 and understand why it is as well regarded by many as the Surge is to others.

The Super Tool 300 makes a great work tool for those who don't regularly face non phillips or flat head screws.  While many of us love the diamond file I don't use it for work purposes.  The weight on the ST300 is not that much lighter than the Surge but I can tell you I felt a difference. 

If you are like many that carry tools for the "what if" then you most likely have a folder on you so the OHO blade becomes a non issue with the ST300.  Additionally not having scissors also becomes less an issue when most pair their MT with a great SAK that usually has a scissors.

If you are on the fence about either of these great FULL SIZE tools then let me offer this advice.  If you will only carry one tool then the Surge is hands down the best choice.  If you carry other tools on you then the Super Tool 300 is your best bet. 

I still love the Surge for what I do but I will be carrying the ST300 for those time when I don't expect to face non phillips or flat heads.         

Esse Quam Videri
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,663 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2014, 03:36:24 AM »
Though I LOVE  My Surge (old style,  have not got a new style yet)  I love the ST300 too.  it is a great tool that holds true to the original Leatherman design.

I feel it can handle most tasks thrown at it, and really like the phillips on it!

If I can help, let me know 
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,834
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2014, 03:54:34 AM »
I was happy with one, until I got the other.  :P  I soon fixed that though, now they are both super.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,255 Tactical Desk Jockey
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2014, 04:30:27 AM »
Yes I complete agree, I been thinking about the same thing, switch from mini-surge to rebar.

OHO is not a big deal when i carry a folder with me.

But I do like how sturdy surge and wave 's frames are comparing to st300 n rebar when using screw driver.

EDC: Black Talon, Black Cat, Spirit, LD02
Hero Member Posts: 892
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2014, 05:08:46 AM »
I never liked the original design with tools only accessible if the MT is folded out, in fact it made me stop buying/looking out for MTs many years ago. Without noticing the oho design a half year ago by chance, i still would be without a MT on my hip.

Since i carry now MTs with a good sized oho blade, i stopped carrying folders. I still have one in my bag most of the time, but no longer immediatly readily at hand (clipped to my belt or in the pocket). Carrying a SAK was never a option for me, since my childhood they make me think "for boyscout use only", no idea why.  :think:

Since 2 days i carry my new Surge now, the weight and size is no problem, i barely notice it after the first few minutes after putting it on the belt - but i´m a guy that likes to carry a good part of the tools from his toolcart in his pockets when working (to lazy to go to the cart each time i need something  :facepalm:). But it still has some tools inside, so i´m very exited for the Leatherman OHT i´ve won.

Have fun.

Bye,
Michael
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,550

Zed gb

******** *
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2014, 09:29:22 AM »
Ive had a surge old type and a st300, there both great HD mt's but different and appeal to different folk,i generally prefer OHO but when i was doing my maintenance job i used a seperate folder for a blade so this wasnt essential for me,since having lots of different mt's for HD work my favourite was the surge but since getting a rebar thats changed  :ahhh the rebar is compact and light just how i like a mt to be,and you can add the adapter to the phillips  :salute: but that said these are all brilliant mt's  :tu:
No Life Club Posts: 1,629 The Tinkerer
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2014, 09:50:30 AM »
Great picks Aloha, I also have both and keep them in frequent rotation  :)

Surge and Wave have both always attracted me with their OHO features for the main 4 blades and modern designs, while Super Tool was has been something that screamed and meant 'business' to me.

Surge - a gentle giant
ST300 - a handsome brute

 :D 

EDC and OCD. A wicked mix.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,501
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2014, 11:16:03 AM »
these 2 tools are remarkably similar and source of many headaches. while I'd like to see the Wave updated with a Rebar head, the difference would still be in the precision screwdriver and scissors vs awl

Solving problems you didn't know you had in the most obscure way possible

"And now, it's time to hand this over to our tame race axe driver. Some say, he can live in the forest for six months at a time without food, and he knows of a secret tribe of only women where he is their God. All we know is, he's call the Styx!" - TazzieRob
No Life Club Posts: 3,327
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2014, 01:21:34 PM »
I like the heft and build quality of the new Surge, but I am a sucker for the ST300's real, 3D long shank phillips.  That stubby, 2D thing on the Surge has no reach.  I do have the bit extender, plus the long 2D phillips from the MUT, but that's sorta of a pain to use, and is not quick.


Full Member Posts: 135
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2014, 02:01:49 PM »
I also own both the new Surge and the ST300 and I love them equally.

OH and outside accessible tools while being very convenient are not really such a big deal for me because I have truly never found myself in a situation that I needed the blade/file/saw immediatley and if I carry my ST300, I usually have it paired up with a Vic climber/Micra or both :D so scissors were never an issue.

If you are on the fence about either of these great FULL SIZE tools then let me offer this advice.  If you will only carry one tool then the Surge is hands down the best choice.  If you carry other tools on you then the Super Tool 300 is your best bet. 
     
+1 Aloha007.  I think for us crazy over equipped folk here at MTO both tools are winners :tu:
No Life Club Posts: 1,285
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2014, 02:08:27 PM »
The Surge is on my shopping list, but I do own the Super Tool 300 and it's awesome! I do also carry a Micra with my keys which takes care of scissors (as stated above) which balances the ST300 perfectly IMO.  :D

darren
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,016 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2014, 02:48:22 PM »
Here's my take for what it's worth.

1] A multitool with external wood saw/metal saw, will always be better in use than one with equivalent inbound tools

2] Only the user can determine in dedicated drivers or a bit driver suits best. Every so often you WILL get a screw that eats up your drivers a bit. With dedicated drivers, a wrecked driver can scupper carrying the whole tool, whereas a bit can (usually) be replaced quite easily. That said, the longer dedicated drivers have better access to recessed screws

3] I generally prefer using dedicated folders to MT blades, though will use a serrated/CE blade occasionally.

4] Scissors are always something I want on me. If the main multitool hasn't got them, that means I have to carry something else which will probably have a lot of duplication of the tools is has got. This can result in me not carrying that tool but picking something that means I can carry just one tool.

5] I don't use wire cutters much, so on the whole I'm quite happy without inxedable cutters

6] An awl (or something that can be used as one) is always nice to have

7] A 4" multitool, is usually as big as I ever need

8] A Surge might be a big tool, but due to the coupler, suffers a diminutive saw and file

To sum up, Surge probably beats ST300 (for me) although A Surge with dedicated Phillips would probably serve me just as well, or indeed even better if coupled with the bit adapter. Neither of them are really "me", although that's purely preference than a tool faiure, but I can see why people do like both tools. These big heavy duty tools are where Leatherman are at their strongest as there's only really the MP600 and Swisstool as viable competition (SOG has big pliers but with PST sized implements).

I'd still rather carry a smaller tool most of the time though, so personally would rather have Wave/Charge AL to a Surge though, and rather carry the Vic Spirit to the ST300. If I was choosing a large tool though for any reason, my choices would generally be Swisstool CS Plus, or LM Core (with additional tool for scissors)



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 2,017
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2014, 06:56:26 PM »
Core but not ST300?
Hero Member Posts: 935
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2014, 07:28:32 PM »
I've never quite understood why LM hasn't opted to switch to the outside opening format of the Swiss Tool?  I think the Swiss Tool proved the format, and the ST400 would be more awesome because of it....
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,109 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2014, 07:37:00 PM »
I've never quite understood why LM hasn't opted to switch to the outside opening format of the Swiss Tool?  I think the Swiss Tool proved the format, and the ST400 would be more awesome because of it....

Probably some patent rights. Victorinox only started making the Swisstools after getting the rights to do so from Bear and Sons if I remember correctly.

And the LM OHT with sliding pliers also only came to market a few months after Gerber's patent on those ran out.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,663 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2014, 07:58:54 PM »
I've never quite understood why LM hasn't opted to switch to the outside opening format of the Swiss Tool?  I think the Swiss Tool proved the format, and the ST400 would be more awesome because of it....

Probably some patent rights. Victorinox only started making the Swisstools after getting the rights to do so from Bear and Sons if I remember correctly.

And the LM OHT with sliding pliers also only came to market a few months after Gerber's patent on those ran out.

and yet software companies get sued of things like "vertical scroll-bars"  or adding "in an email" to an existing patent and calling it a new patent.   :facepalm:

If I can help, let me know 
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,016 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2014, 07:59:59 PM »
Core but not ST300?

I know .... :shrug: In my defence, the only large tools I have* are the Core, Swistool CS Plus, Gerber Grappler, a couple of the Schrade Vise Grips and my DEsTroyer Mod. I don't tend to carry the Grappler, Vise Grips or DEsTroyer as I don't tend to need the large shears or locking pliers on a regular basis, so they only get fresh air for specific jobs or when being taken to the UK Meets  :D

This leaves the Core and Swistool as plier tools :P Although I do have a totally stripped down SOG Powerlock that gets dug out for occasional compound leverage use, but again it doesn't get "carried"

I have handled both the ST300 and Surge, but as I said before I tend to carry the 4" tools, so you'd see me carry the Charge over the Surge, and Spirit over the ST300. There's very few jobs I'd tackle which need the 4.1/2" tools over the 4" and they all use the same pivots anyway, so I think it's down to ergonomics for the user



* I do actually have one of the 30th Aniversary ST300 & Micra sets that a member here was selling off cheap and I bought it when drunk  ::). When it arrived I thought "what the hell am I going to do with this now?" and just stuck it in the back of a cupboard to mostly be forgotten about  :-\



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 4,737
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2014, 08:20:11 PM »
I've been thinking about getting myself a Surge for a long, looong time and I always end up not buying it.  I will try to write down the different steps that go on in my head when I think about the Surge ...

Here's how it begins:

- I see a picture of the Surge on this site called MTO and think "wow, that's a great looking tool".

Then I will start to make up reasons why I would need the Surge instead of my ST300:

- "those scissors look awesome, no need to carry a SAK while carrying a Surge ..."
- "those OHO knives look awesome, what if I get in a situation where I need a OHO knife ..."
- "the bit holder with extra bits looks awesome, what if I get in a situation where I need a special screwdriver type ..."

So, I'm of to the shop to check out the Surge in real life, once I'm there these thoughts start to kick in:

- "Those Scissors look strong, but when I leave my SAK at home I won't have tweezers/mag glass/a swiss style can opener ..."
- "those OHO knives look quite threatening, are those legal to carry when I'm on vacation in ..."
- "that bit holder looks very short and wide, what if there's a phillips screw that I can't reach ..."

So, I go home empty handed, get in front of the computer and visit this site called MTO, where I see this awesome picture of a Surge ...

 :facepalm:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 08:23:43 PM by Top-Gear-24 »
No Life Club Posts: 2,017
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2014, 08:22:52 PM »
they all use the same pivots anyway, so I think it's down to ergonomics for the user

Do they now? I'm going to have to investigate this. Maybe I can make my Rebar EOD after all.

and just stuck it in the back of a cupboard to mostly be forgotten about  :-\

Oi, that's not very nice  :twak:  ;)
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,016 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2014, 10:28:57 PM »
 
and just stuck it in the back of a cupboard to mostly be forgotten about  :-\

Oi, that's not very nice  :twak:  ;)

:D :D :D

they all use the same pivots anyway, so I think it's down to ergonomics for the user

Do they now? I'm going to have to investigate this. Maybe I can make my Rebar EOD after all.

Well, the larger tools don't have any stronger pivots as far as I'm aware

I've been thinking about getting myself a Surge for a long, looong time and I always end up not buying it.  I will try to write down the different steps that go on in my head when I think about the Surge ...

Here's how it begins:

- I see a picture of the Surge on this site called MTO and think "wow, that's a great looking tool".

Then I will start to make up reasons why I would need the Surge instead of my ST300:

- "those scissors look awesome, no need to carry a SAK while carrying a Surge ..."
- "those OHO knives look awesome, what if I get in a situation where I need a OHO knife ..."
- "the bit holder with extra bits looks awesome, what if I get in a situation where I need a special screwdriver type ..."

So, I'm of to the shop to check out the Surge in real life, once I'm there these thoughts start to kick in:

- "Those Scissors look strong, but when I leave my SAK at home I won't have tweezers/mag glass/a swiss style can opener ..."
- "those OHO knives look quite threatening, are those legal to carry when I'm on vacation in ..."
- "that bit holder looks very short and wide, what if there's a phillips screw that I can't reach ..."

So, I go home empty handed, get in front of the computer and visit this site called MTO, where I see this awesome picture of a Surge ...

 :facepalm:

Yeah, that's how I ended up with another CS4 after I gave away the first one  :facepalm: Well, it's how I ended up with a few tools actually  ::)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 10:58:22 PM by 50ft-trad »



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Full Member Posts: 183 drool, *drool* for cool multitoolz
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2014, 05:57:15 AM »
It's interesting in terms of timing - your topic. I just bought a used ST 300 [received yesterday] from FreEbay and I'm not even sure if it even needs to be cleaned.   :tu:  Maybe it was from someone here at MTO - ?  At any rate, haven't had a chance to use it, but the ST 300 feels good in the hand.

I was a bit surprised to feel how much lighter it is vs. the Surge, but then for various applications, it's apple & oranges anyway.  I can definitely see this as a 'go-to' MT.  To be clear - it is Surge-Uber-Alles here, right?  However, if I was stuck behind enemy lines with nothing more than the ST 300, I could absolutely do a lot worse.

Will have to put it through the motions here, but - having just received it - it's looking good and like it's found a good home.   :assimilate:

...nothing in his pockets but knives and lint...
Hero Member Posts: 939 I am the ghost that haunts the GERBER MTo Forum
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2014, 02:12:52 AM »
Tough decision really. I've always had a penchant for having a blade readily available / within reach since I'm the only man in the household and always loved working around the house. However, I feel more at home using the Supertool 300 because it comes across as a basic no nonsense tool. I do not have any issues with the removable saw/file. I think they are quite capable, and I am planning to get a new Surge after I get my very first swisstool. I just think that (like what detron said) the ST300 holds true to the classic Leatherman design that I have learned to embrace.

Cheers,
Gabriel

"you can't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need"


"I have a confession to make: I am addicted to steel, I have a smoking problem, I have a short attention span and I am easily amused"

"Balisongs Forever!!!"
Full Member Posts: 142

Dem ca

***
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2014, 10:07:40 AM »
But I do like how sturdy surge and wave 's frames are comparing to st300 n rebar when using screw driver.

If you open the can opener a little when you're taking out the phillips or large flat, it'll slip into the recess where the lanyard ring is and reinforce the frame of the ST300/Rebar quite a bit. Gets rid of all that flex. I gifted my ST300 so I can't spot-check, but on the Rebar you can do that for every tool except the file and small flat, since those need to be closed for the can opener to slip between.

Dem
Sr. Member Posts: 416

Rux us

**** *
Re: Super Tool 300 vs New Surge
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2014, 02:22:47 PM »
This thread makes my want for an ST300 even stronger.  :ahhh

Maybe after I pay off some credit card debt. A few more months.

 

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