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Is the SAK Dead?

au Offline Huntsman

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Is the SAK Dead?
on: August 07, 2014, 07:30:01 AM
Well more specifically the classic (better say standard!) SAK toolset?

This is the toolset that is the foundation of pretty much every 84, 91mm Victorinox
– And to a slightly lesser extent: the 93 & 111mm Vics; and the full sized Wengers  85, 120, 130mm.

When only these tools are on a single pocket knife - of course it is known as a Spartan in Vic land, or a Commander in Wenger land.
And it is the toolset of the first ‘Officers Knife’ introduced by Victorinox in 1897.

So what have we got?
  • Main Blade
  • Small Blade (usually nailfile on Wenger)
  • Screwdriver
  • .. with bottle opener
  • Can opener
  • Corkscrew
  • Awl
And how useful are these tools these days?
  • Main Blade - Fine
  • Small Blade - Redundant - We already have one
  • Screwdriver - Redundant – Who uses slot screw drivers these days? – It’s always Phillips – apart from those weird Canadians with their Robertsons  >:D
  • Bottle opener - Redundant – Bottles are usually twist off these days
  • Can opener - Redundant – Cans are usually ring pull these days
  • Corkscrew -Redundant – Wine bottles are usually screw top these days
  • Awl - Fine
And OK the Tinker blows my theory a bit  ::)
But maybe the regular Vic should be a single layer with main blade and awl??  ???

This all coupled with increasingly unfriendly knife laws in some countries; an increasing expectation of an easy life; less self-sufficiency in society; more throw away - less fixing; more time for kids in front of the telly or computer, instead of in the outdoors creating, exploring and whittling   :(  ....

Is our beloved SAK dead?? Has it had its day?

Awaiting cries of protest!!!


ro Offline Corwyn

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 07:40:48 AM
Definately, definately not. I see more and more people going into saks. They seem timeless. The "tacticool" craze will come and go, but saks still have their magic and appeal. Also they are status symbol both in every day life and in the hiking world...

  • Main Blade - Fine
  • Small Blade - Redundant - I'll give you that, that's why I carry Traveler instead of Climber
  • Screwdriver - Fine... big one still gets regular use, small one can fit Philips, also it makes an awesome prybar
  • Bottle opener - Fine – Used it 3 times only yesterday - 2 sodas and a beer
  • Can opener - Fine – Only used it yesterday... at lunch we were 25 people and only my sak could open the can of pork
  • Corkscrew -Fine – Used occasionally, also nice for untying knots and holding the mini-screwdriver. Some people probably use it more.
  • Awl - Fine
  • Toothpick - Fine, used daily
  • Tweezers - Fine, some people use it more than others
  • Pin - Fine, only used it 5 minutes ago to push a battery out
  • Eyeglass screwdriver - Fine, if you have eyeglasses
  • Pen - Fine, used daily
Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.


au Offline mr626

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 07:45:14 AM
I don't have much to add, however I understand where this point is coming from:

  • Bottle opener - Redundant – Bottles are usually twist off these days

Here in ozland, the vast majority of our drinks (alcoholic or not) are twist tops. If you buy an 'Australian' beer and its not a twist top, its probably not actually an Australian beer.

Not sure if the rest of the world does twist tops as much as we do though- any Euro beer I buy requires a bottle opener.


us Offline SAK Guy

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #3 on: August 07, 2014, 07:53:31 AM
Cry of protest.....

I live in the sticks, on a farm and my SAKs are just fine like they are.....don't change a thing because the supplied tools fit all my old crap around here.

:cheers:
- Robert




Quo Fata Ferunt
"It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues." - Ten Bears


spam Offline comis

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 08:18:36 AM
It depends which part of the world you plan to use it, SAK is universial.  :D :cheers:

Main Blade - Fine
Small Blade - good, when I don't want to use the large blade in an office/crowded setting
Screwdriver - Nice, how about the screw for trip pod
Bottle opener - Not redundant, depending which part of the world
Can opener - Not redundant, again depending where you are
Corkscrew - Most expensive wine I come across are in corkscrew, even I have seen some in twist top
Awl - Fine


Offline AmberDragon

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 08:59:19 AM
I don't think the SAK will will ever die - they're just too useful in too many ways.

Small Blade - Good for more delicate jobs, like sharpening a pencil, opening a blister pack, or slitting an envelope.
Screwdriver - The large screwdriver is great on - wait for it - larger screws which usually have a full cut for a flathead. It also makes for a good light prybar. The smaller screwdriver on the can opener is great for philips.
Bottle opener - Even if you forget bottles, the bottle opener is great for opening stubborn jars. All you have to do is use the opener on the edge of the lid until the vacuum seal breaks and you're in.
Can opener - Not all cans are pop tops. Plus, how would you get into the can if the ring snapped off?
Corkscrew - I've used mine for wine a couple of times, but I can't tell you how many times I've used it for picking knots. Plus, where else would I keep my eyeglass screwdriver?  :D


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 09:13:55 AM
Cry of protest.....

I live in the sticks, on a farm and my SAKs are just fine like they are.....don't change a thing because the supplied tools fit all my old crap around here.

:cheers:

+1
It ain't broke! So  :twak: :twak: :twak:.


hr Offline Subterranean

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 09:49:34 AM
1) As people have already said, it depends on the place where you live. I often need to open a can without the opening tab, a bottle cap that needs the opener, and corked wine bottle.

2) If you have different food/beverage packaging standards in your country, your SAK still might be useful when going to a foreign country.

3) Many of the tools (in a pinch) have the alternative use.

The can opener can be used as a hook for hooking up and raising the hot or dirty stuff, for example the chain on a bicycle. Its screwdriver tip is awesome. It can also be turned into the small long "precision" screwdriver.
The bottle opener works many times as a small pry bar. You can also modify the screwdriver tip into a chisel, or turn the bottle opener into a wire scraper, as they were made back in the past, on the specimen 2 on this picture:


(picture taken from this interesting site: http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php )

Corkscrew saved me few times when I was having the "unsolvable" knots on my shoelaces. Plus the tiny screwdriver ROCKS.
The scale tools are timeless, always useful.
And yes, I use the small blade in the public places, too.


SAK = timeless piece of EDC. They are also nice for collecting, but for me they are primarily the bloody brilliant EDC item, the natural extension of your hand.


nl Offline Reinier

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #8 on: August 07, 2014, 09:52:02 AM
Main Blade - Fine;
Small Blade - Nice to have a small sharp blade as a backup. Also, I prefer the small blade for opening boxes etc.;
Screwdriver - Useful as a small pry bar;
Bottle opener - Not redundant, at leas in the Netherlands. Not a lot of twist-off bottles here;
Can opener - Redundant, agreed :) And I don't think I have ever used the small flat head screwdriver;
Corkscrew - I'm not sure. Still lots of corks here. Also nice to have the mini screwdriver;
Awl - Fine - Yep!

I'm a fan of the combo tool: as good as if not better for opening bottles than the cap lifter/bottle opener and still usable as a pry bar. But the small blade is still nice to have IMHO.
You should seriously visit vicfan.com. All the hoopy froods are doing it.


hr Offline Subterranean

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #9 on: August 07, 2014, 10:31:07 AM
I must add that the dating data for the Vics on the site I mentioned (http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php) are not completely correct. For example, there are combo tools made as early as 1982.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 10:33:46 AM by Subterranean »


ro Offline Corwyn

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #10 on: August 07, 2014, 10:34:07 AM
I must add that the dating data for the Vics on the site I mentioned (http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php) are not completely correct. For example, there are combo tools made as early as 1982.

Wrong thread mate  ::)
Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.


gb Offline Zed

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #11 on: August 07, 2014, 10:37:24 AM
The CS for me is redundent but not  :D as i use it to carry vics mini driver  :salute:


hr Offline Subterranean

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #12 on: August 07, 2014, 10:37:50 AM
I know, I just had to attach a warning note here, since I put that link here.


de Offline Lichtbote

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #13 on: August 07, 2014, 12:23:10 PM
No idea if SAKs are dead - but i know not a single person in real life who uses/carries one (i didn´t write "have one" as i´m sure some are in some peoples drawer).  :think:
Have fun.

Bye,
Michael


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #14 on: August 07, 2014, 12:29:56 PM
No idea if SAKs are dead - but i know not a single person in real life who uses/carries one (i didn´t write "have one" as i´m sure some are in some peoples drawer).  :think:

Get to work then mate, go forth and enable the masses.  :pok:


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #15 on: August 07, 2014, 12:34:30 PM
I don't think there dead, but they certainly were on a downward spiral. I'm hoping the revival in outdoor activities revives them a bit :)
Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!


Offline tezam

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #16 on: August 07, 2014, 12:36:04 PM
I kinda understand the point. Since I've had a 91mms full time this year, I've needed to use the "standard" openers, corkscrew, awl a total of 0 times. HOWEVER it is a useful pair of portable scissors, toothpick, tweezers, spare pen, file and oh yeah knife in one compact (Compact!) package.

You know what, I expect most people buy SAKs to suit their daily activities…but I've found that owning them has actually changed my habits. Now I take better care of my nails since I have small scissors and file. Better care of teeth with the toothpick, And a couple of times I've gone for a bush walk just to take the Huntsman outdoors where it belongs, not on a desk :) now to convert to drinking corked wine, using cans without tabs, drinking Euro beer, and unscrewing every screw I can find :D *desk collapses*


de Offline Lichtbote

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #17 on: August 07, 2014, 12:36:25 PM
Get to work then mate, go forth and enable the masses.  :pok:

That would be strange, as i don´t own one myself.  :angel:

If i would enable, it would be MTs.
Have fun.

Bye,
Michael


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #18 on: August 07, 2014, 12:53:24 PM
Get to work then mate, go forth and enable the masses.  :pok:

That would be strange, as i don´t own one myself.  :angel:

If i would enable, it would be MTs.

Why don't you own one?  :think:


us Offline sawman

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #19 on: August 07, 2014, 12:56:35 PM
I don't see what's so obsolete about SAKs except for maybe the corkscrew.

I use the small blade more than the large one.

As for the can opener, it's my go-to for our larger cans that aren't possible to open with the crank opener.

The screwdrivers are just awesome for both screwing and prying.

The awl is one of the best in the industry.

The scissors. On both large and small SAKs, the scissors are absolutely superb.

T&T, I use the tweezers quite a bit. The toothpick, not so much.
SAW


de Offline Lichtbote

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #20 on: August 07, 2014, 01:15:57 PM
Why don't you own one?  :think:

Somehow I never got into them. Had one as a child/teen, and thought always it was a "boyscout thing" - maybe cause the first knife i can remember given to me (by my uncle) was already "more". It was a sort of hunting knife with a big fixed blade, and in the staghorn scaled handle it had all the tools we´re talking in this thread, but most of them (esspecially the saw) a little bigger than on the SAKs i´ve seen at that time.

Later i was always in the reach (more or less) of real tools and/or bigger knifes (first job, then Army, later job again). And only a short time ago i noticed that now MTs can be found with oho, since then i got some of them, and they replaced my carried folders on most occasions.

I assume i was never in the market for SAKs. Even in my servicetime, when the regular troops were all equipped with cute greenscaled SAKs, we had our big gravity feed paratrooper knives
Have fun.

Bye,
Michael


nz Offline Syncop8r

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #21 on: August 07, 2014, 01:38:31 PM
Wenger Ranger 58:
  • Big Main Blade - awesome!
  • Small Blade - doesn't have one but I want one
  • Big Saw - awesome!
  • Gutting Blade - redundant (I'm a vegetarian)
  • Awl - useful
  • Bottle Opener - useful - my favourite bottled beer is not twist-top
  • Can Opener - useful - probably less than half of cans here have ring pull
  • Flat screwdriver - useful
  • Corkscrew - redundant - good thing it doesn't have one and instead has a
  • Phillips screwdriver - useful


Offline ford1911

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #22 on: August 07, 2014, 03:41:48 PM
I edc a huntsman plus. For the 15 years before that I edc'ed either a Benchmade, Spyderco or Kershaw. Great knives and I have several of each brand but I can't see going back.

Saw - Mostly use it to cut heavy plastic zipties and lump charcoal for my smoker.

bottle opener - opens my wife's favorite beer. Got to have a bottle opener.

can opener - I could live without a can opener although I use the screwdriver tip on it alot.

corkscrew - don't get to use it much. Only a few types of wine I drink still use a cork. I do like that it holds the small screwdriver for my glasses.

scissors - I use quite a bit. From cutting strands of thread to trimming my nails.

small blade - I dont use very much. I like having it though. Actually I don't even use my large blade that much compared to when I carried a "modern folder".



us Offline asmitty

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #23 on: August 07, 2014, 04:26:45 PM
I got my first SAK on my 9th birthday (Classic SD, September 1989).  I bought my first SAK for myself at age 11 (Recruit, early 1992).  I have carried one daily ever since.  With very few exceptions like when traveling for work with only carry-on luggage.  They definitely are not dead, I just think some people these days just don't understand their usefulness.

Main Blade - Fine
Small Blade - Maybe, but I like having a second blade.  It's primary purpose to me is opening the mail.
Screwdriver - All of the drivers on my SAK see fairly regular use.  Slot screws are not obsolete and the can opener screwdriver works for shallow phillips.
Bottle opener - Used regularly.  With the different beers I usually drink, it's a 50/50 shot if they will have a screw off lid.
Can opener - Used this yesterday.  My work doesn't keep a can opener in the break room and not every can of food I bring has a pull tab.
Corkscrew - Someone said above this is great for untying small knots and I completely agree.  Also gets used on wine bottles from time to time.  Again, about a 50/50 shot whether they'll be screw or cork.
Awl - I like having it, but I don't use it often.
Toothpick - Used occasionally but rarely on my teeth.
Tweezers - Used fairly regularly
Yes that's true, but I've been out to sea a long time.


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #24 on: August 07, 2014, 04:48:09 PM
You guys have no idea what a blasphemy it is to speak of "wine" that doesn't come in a glass bottle with a cork. THAT'S NOT WINE!!!!

 :facepalm:
 :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:
 :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd:
 :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak:
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us Offline sawman

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #25 on: August 07, 2014, 04:56:57 PM
Even I have suggested ditching the can-opener on MTs before but when I think of how often I actually use it I realize that's not a good idea. I NEED a good can-opener and Vic's is one of the very best plus gives you a flat working driver for Phillips screws.
SAW


ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #26 on: August 07, 2014, 04:59:06 PM
I don't think cork-screw / bottle-opener / can-opener are obsolete, but they are redundant AND you can't get a 91mm SAK without.
Its the same as the Metal-File on the CyberTool, you can't get it without the Wood-Saw :think:.

Anyway I don't think SAK's are dead, but I think they should re-evaluate their tool combos.
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


se Offline Mextreme

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #27 on: August 07, 2014, 05:00:30 PM
I think that the SAK tools are so well designed and over so much time that they have become more multiuse than single use items. I have improvised so many uses. I could live without a can opener but I use it to scrape of price tags, drive philips screws, pick up a dirty stuff like a bike chain and so on.
The bottle opener is a must in Europe but the straight driver is not so common but as a small prybar very often.

However I think it is important that they evolve and stay ahead.

One tool like the clam-shell package opener some tools now have are in my opinion a good thing. They offer a safe way of opening a more and more common package. They should consider this but I wouldn´t like to sacrifice one single other tool, not even the hook.  :D

I think some of the small 58mm have up to date tools for urban EDC. The manager/rambler for example.
The small philps is just great for all electronic, glasses, battery case, toys application and just sturdy enough for non-microscopic use. Scissors enough for finger nails and threads, emergency pen, letter package opening little blade and a small file.






« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 05:05:15 PM by Mextreme »


us Offline Monrogue

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #28 on: August 07, 2014, 05:26:37 PM
I'm not sure about them being dead, but as someone else mentioned, I haven't seen a single person carrying one.  The only other person that has one that I know of is my wife, and that's only because I got it for her and she keeps it in her purse.  Now multitools or folders on the other hand, I've seen a few guys packing those.  I love my SAKs though, even if I don't use them frequently every day :tu:

Main Blade - Fine, but I rarely actually use it.
Small Blade - I like having this, and I use it more than the main one, especially in public.
Screwdriver - I don't use these often, but they do occasionally come in handy.
Bottle opener - I use this when I occasionally get my favorite beer (Sam Adams varieties-none are twist top), and it's been handy as a pry bar sometimes.
Can opener - Rarely ever used as intended, but a great little misc. use tool.  It makes for a great little scraper, and works well on scratch off tickets, among other things I'm sure.
Corkscrew - I never use this as I don't drink wine, and I guess just never have a hard knot to untie.  Holds the mini driver though, which I also only rarely use.
Awl - Rarely use it, but it's been great when needed.
Scale tools (T&T, pin, pen) - Only use occasionally, but am always thankful to have them when needed. 
Scissors - I know these aren't part of the normal Spartan you mentioned, but this is probably my most used tool.  Admittedly, if I didn't have a beard or goatee, I would use this considerably less. 

K-Tibbs


us Offline detron

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Re: Is the SAK Dead?
Reply #29 on: August 07, 2014, 05:29:48 PM
If the SAK is dead,  then I am a zombie collector
If I can help, let me know 


 

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