Leatherman Signal - is LM making a survival multi?

[Aloha]

Pocket clip.
Replaceable cutters.
Bit driver.
Aesthetics. 
OHO. 
HAMMER.   

[Syncop8r]

Yes they are features but I''m talking about things that set it apart from other MTs.

[Outback in Idaho]

What's the point of difference with the Signal? My observations:
- ferro rod
- whistle
- sharpener
- hammer
- hex bit driver

Anything else?
The ferro rod and whistle are written off as rubbish even by many who like the Signal overall, despite them being things that help make it an outdoors tool. I have more ovaries than the amount of times I have needed a hex bit driver out in the bush. The sharpener may be useful but doesn't really 'make' the tool.
So that just leaves the hammer which doesn't really grab me.

What am I missing?

  Think it's a glorified MUT trying to make it a civilian tool. The Hammer section is dominant and no tools there except the whistle/ferro-rod thing. Seems like such a waste of space there. And there's no real file with any length to do anything with.

read somewhere one needs a minimum of 1/4" of ferrocerium rod to be sturdy enough for use, but 1/2" or larger was better. So the Leatherman ferrocerium rod is more of a backup or light use thing.

I think the Signal's ferro rod being mounted in the plastic would make it less likely to break?
[/quote]

  Anything that is glued in and come off at the worst possible of times. Maybe it's molded in there too. What one ought to do is remove the larger end of the whistle and stuff treated cloth & a cotton ball in there to help at least make one or two fires even in wet conditions.

[Syncop8r]

Think it's a glorified MUT trying to make it a civilian tool. The Hammer section is dominant and no tools there except the whistle/ferro-rod thing. Seems like such a waste of space there. And there's no real file with any length to do anything with.

That's my thinking as well.

[Spartan19]

It all depends on what you plan to do with the tool. I've found it works really well while camping, although the ferro rod could stand to be a little more durable, as it wears down pretty quickly. I like the saw and the main blade. The only complaint I have with the Signal is that when you have the can opener or any of the inside tools open, you can't fully close the handles because of the pummel, which can be tedious at times. Other than that, I'd say the Signal is a great camping and outdoor mt

[Etherealicer]

Yes they are features but I''m talking about things that set it apart from other MTs.

Frame wise, it has a small inside tool opposite of the large outside tool increasing tool density. So it is a further step in the "Wave-Frame" evolution

[Syncop8r]

Yes they are features but I''m talking about things that set it apart from other MTs.

Frame wise, it has a small inside tool opposite of the large outside tool increasing tool density. So it is a further step in the "Wave-Frame" evolution

Surge, Wave, Charge, Wingman etc have been doing this for years. How is this a further step?

[Etherealicer]

Yes they are features but I''m talking about things that set it apart from other MTs.

Frame wise, it has a small inside tool opposite of the large outside tool increasing tool density. So it is a further step in the "Wave-Frame" evolution

Surge, Wave, Charge, Wingman etc have been doing this for years. How is this a further step?

Um, not my Wave/Charge or Surge... none of them have a small tool in the slot of the large outside tool.

Check out the awl position here

[Syncop8r]

Sorry, I didn't realise you meant in the same slot. 
I didn't know they are like that.

[Etherealicer]

Sorry, I didn't realise you meant in the same slot. 
I didn't know they are like that.

No problem, that's why I linked the picture... sometimes words are inadequate.

[Etherealicer]

So, after reading this entire thread, is it OK to like the Signal now?

I still have all my same reservations, but it sure seemed sweet.

Its always OK to like any tool... its OK to dislike them too. What is not OK is to hate a tool without ever giving it a spin

[Etherealicer]

Think it's a glorified MUT trying to make it a civilian tool. The Hammer section is dominant and no tools there except the whistle/ferro-rod thing. Seems like such a waste of space there. And there's no real file with any length to do anything with.

Except, if you double it up with 4 outside tools, you will only loose "one small inside tool" but you would gain a hammer. Personally, I feel that the hammer is awesome and pretty handy.

[Outback in Idaho]

Think it's a glorified MUT trying to make it a civilian tool. The Hammer section is dominant and no tools there except the whistle/ferro-rod thing. Seems like such a waste of space there. And there's no real file with any length to do anything with.

Except, if you double it up with 4 outside tools, you will only loose "one small inside tool" but you would gain a hammer. Personally, I feel that the hammer is awesome and pretty handy.

  Umm... 4 outside tools?? Main Blade which combined Serrated & Straight edges, a Saw. No full length File, no Cut Hook anywhere. While you might be able to use the ferrocerium rod on the outside, you'd have to take the dinky file off in order to be used - while accessible it has to be detached to be of any use. - Oh, the Hammer. That's really 3: Blade, Saw, Hammer.

  So you're losing a Full-Length File for a small gimicky thing. Not a good compromise. Signal Owners ought to buy extra files for the Surge and pack them in the slot in the back. Doesn't look there's a way to add a metal saw blade and/or adapter in there, which is unfortunate.

  Leatherman should of added a feature to attach a metal blade to the tool. A Sawsall blade really comes in handy for emergency repairs, but no place to put one of them on a Signal either. While it's cute and has attractive features, it doesn't cover all the necessities for survival.

  And the sheath... have you ever used the horizontal portion on these Chinese made sheaths? The horizontal straps pull through and you could lose your multitool in the forest and never know it. Been there. Anything nylon should at least have a melted barrier -before- it is ever stitched together. Otherwise fraying occurs and leads to malfunction.
  This is why I've stayed with leather sheaths. Even the famed Charge Badged case that the emo's whine about that the oval badge burned their skin. Really?!?  ID10Ts should not own tools. But that's another topic... 

  Leather sheaths last YEARS. The elastic on my Charge sheath is not faring the best, although these sheaths are nearly impossible (if not impossible) to find. Leather sheaths can be repaired.   Am considering making leather side panels to replace the elastic ones. It's a time on hand issue that I don't have much of working two jobs. Yet leather sheaths have never failed me. Numerous nylon sheaths have. And leather doesn't melt either. Although a nylon sheath could probably be used for fire starter if nothing else.

  Will wait for the next incarnation of the MUT chassis. It needs a full-length file.

[Etherealicer]

Think it's a glorified MUT trying to make it a civilian tool. The Hammer section is dominant and no tools there except the whistle/ferro-rod thing. Seems like such a waste of space there. And there's no real file with any length to do anything with.

Except, if you double it up with 4 outside tools, you will only loose "one small inside tool" but you would gain a hammer. Personally, I feel that the hammer is awesome and pretty handy.

  Umm... 4 outside tools?? Main Blade which combined Serrated & Straight edges, a Saw. No full length File, no Cut Hook anywhere. While you might be able to use the ferrocerium rod on the outside, you'd have to take the dinky file off in order to be used - while accessible it has to be detached to be of any use. - Oh, the Hammer. That's really 3: Blade, Saw, Hammer.

  So you're losing a Full-Length File for a small gimicky thing. Not a good compromise. Signal Owners ought to buy extra files for the Surge and pack them in the slot in the back. Doesn't look there's a way to add a metal saw blade and/or adapter in there, which is unfortunate.

  Leatherman should of added a feature to attach a metal blade to the tool. A Sawsall blade really comes in handy for emergency repairs, but no place to put one of them on a Signal either. While it's cute and has attractive features, it doesn't cover all the necessities for survival.

  And the sheath... have you ever used the horizontal portion on these Chinese made sheaths? The horizontal straps pull through and you could lose your multitool in the forest and never know it. Been there. Anything nylon should at least have a melted barrier -before- it is ever stitched together. Otherwise fraying occurs and leads to malfunction.
  This is why I've stayed with leather sheaths. Even the famed Charge Badged case that the emo's whine about that the oval badge burned their skin. Really?!?  ID10Ts should not own tools. But that's another topic... 

  Leather sheaths last YEARS. The elastic on my Charge sheath is not faring the best, although these sheaths are nearly impossible (if not impossible) to find. Leather sheaths can be repaired.   Am considering making leather side panels to replace the elastic ones. It's a time on hand issue that I don't have much of working two jobs. Yet leather sheaths have never failed me. Numerous nylon sheaths have. And leather doesn't melt either. Although a nylon sheath could probably be used for fire starter if nothing else.

  Will wait for the next incarnation of the MUT chassis. It needs a full-length file.

I think you missunderstood...
Signal has 2 outside tools and 4 slots for inside tools + hammer
Wave has 4 outside tools and 6 slots for inside tools (the bit holder takes up 2 slots)

So the Wave has two more outside tools, two more inside tools one less hammer and is thicker. If you would make the Signal as thick as the Wave you would end up with
4 outside tools, 5 inside tools + hammer
So, basically you would trade one small inside tool for the hammer! I would not call that waste of space!

Btw, that is what I wish from LM, make a Signalwave

[Obi1shinobee]

Think it's a glorified MUT trying to make it a civilian tool. The Hammer section is dominant and no tools there except the whistle/ferro-rod thing. Seems like such a waste of space there. And there's no real file with any length to do anything with.

Except, if you double it up with 4 outside tools, you will only loose "one small inside tool" but you would gain a hammer. Personally, I feel that the hammer is awesome and pretty handy.

  Umm... 4 outside tools?? Main Blade which combined Serrated & Straight edges, a Saw. No full length File, no Cut Hook anywhere. While you might be able to use the ferrocerium rod on the outside, you'd have to take the dinky file off in order to be used - while accessible it has to be detached to be of any use. - Oh, the Hammer. That's really 3: Blade, Saw, Hammer.

  So you're losing a Full-Length File for a small gimicky thing. Not a good compromise. Signal Owners ought to buy extra files for the Surge and pack them in the slot in the back. Doesn't look there's a way to add a metal saw blade and/or adapter in there, which is unfortunate.

  Leatherman should of added a feature to attach a metal blade to the tool. A Sawsall blade really comes in handy for emergency repairs, but no place to put one of them on a Signal either. While it's cute and has attractive features, it doesn't cover all the necessities for survival.

  And the sheath... have you ever used the horizontal portion on these Chinese made sheaths? The horizontal straps pull through and you could lose your multitool in the forest and never know it. Been there. Anything nylon should at least have a melted barrier -before- it is ever stitched together. Otherwise fraying occurs and leads to malfunction.
  This is why I've stayed with leather sheaths. Even the famed Charge Badged case that the emo's whine about that the oval badge burned their skin. Really?!?  ID10Ts should not own tools. But that's another topic... 

  Leather sheaths last YEARS. The elastic on my Charge sheath is not faring the best, although these sheaths are nearly impossible (if not impossible) to find. Leather sheaths can be repaired.   Am considering making leather side panels to replace the elastic ones. It's a time on hand issue that I don't have much of working two jobs. Yet leather sheaths have never failed me. Numerous nylon sheaths have. And leather doesn't melt either. Although a nylon sheath could probably be used for fire starter if nothing else.

  Will wait for the next incarnation of the MUT chassis. It needs a full-length file.

I think you missunderstood...
Signal has 2 outside tools and 4 slots for inside tools + hammer
Wave has 4 outside tools and 6 slots for inside tools (the bit holder takes up 2 slots)

So the Wave has two more outside tools, two more inside tools one less hammer and is thicker. If you would make the Signal as thick as the Wave you would end up with
4 outside tools, 5 inside tools + hammer
So, basically you would trade one small inside tool for the hammer! I would not call that waste of space!

Btw, that is what I wish from LM, make a Signalwave

Im gonna mods that hammer adapter like this guy , already ask him permission He say GO FOR IT 
 hahahah forget SignalWave , BLAVE keep add on 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn5YGGsx3gg&t=98s

[Outback in Idaho]

  ReCharge has 5 inside, 4 outside + an MTO Hack Saw Blade attachment + Leatherman Bit Extender 
  Now about that hammer add-on ... interesting but would require a custom case for sure.

  Only thing about these hammers is if you miss ... OUCH! Would not want to be the hand that misses. Used the back flat space on the Scourge (Kukri) to pound stakes in. The heft of the blade worked wonders. Although a Kukri isn't something one can easily carry around like a Signal/MUT, although a back sling would be more impressive.
  But still ... don't miss or that hammer might be the instigator to an injury waiting to happen. Although I doubt it was intended to be used to put tent stakes in. probably more to pound or tap in stubborn firearm pins and other fittings

  Was almost ready to buy the signal when I realized there was no real file there. Why didn't Leatherman use the Saw / File blade exchanger from the Surge?

[Breezy12]

Why didn't Leatherman use the Saw / File blade exchanger from the Surge?

funny you should mention it... that's at the top of my list of mod ideas for the Signal.

I have the parts ready; just need to find some spare time to work on it...

[Syncop8r]

Only thing about these hammers is if you miss ... OUCH! Would not want to be the hand that misses.

+1

I would love to see a "Make your own alternative SIgnal" thread.... 

[Aloha]

The Surge blade exchanger was too wide to fit in that space.  They (LM) would have to make the frame wider.  Keep in mind the tool was purpose driven.  It was to be an outdoor tool so the saw makes sense in that regard.  Could the tool be re released to be more of an all around tool?  Certainly has the bones.   

[Syncop8r]

True, a fixed saw for an outdoor tool makes much more sense. I think ferro rod, removable sharpener and whistle also make sense given the SIgnal's intended use.
I don't think a bit driver makes sense given it's intended use.

[AimlessWanderer]

True, a fixed saw for an outdoor tool makes much more sense. I think ferro rod, removable sharpener and whistle also make sense given the SIgnal's intended use.
I don't think a bit driver makes sense given it's intended use.

Depends how you got there I suppose - on foot, bike, car, boat .... besides which, some stoves and other outdoors gear have screws in.

[Syncop8r]

True, a fixed saw for an outdoor tool makes much more sense. I think ferro rod, removable sharpener and whistle also make sense given the SIgnal's intended use.
I don't think a bit driver makes sense given it's intended use.

Depends how you got there I suppose - on foot, bike, car, boat .... besides which, some stoves and other outdoors gear have screws in.

It's not having drivers I don't agree with, it's having (loseable) bits.

[AimlessWanderer]

True, a fixed saw for an outdoor tool makes much more sense. I think ferro rod, removable sharpener and whistle also make sense given the SIgnal's intended use.
I don't think a bit driver makes sense given it's intended use.

Depends how you got there I suppose - on foot, bike, car, boat .... besides which, some stoves and other outdoors gear have screws in.

It's not having drivers I don't agree with, it's having (loseable) bits.

If the fasteners are torx or hex, it's that or a whole other set of tools. My "survival tool" is my Fuse-ilier mod, which has the full Phillips and flats - but I do tend to carry it with the adapter that fits on the phillips, and the small array of LM flat bits that it comes with. I've not needed them yet, but I've not needed my first aid kit often either, and still take that with me  My issue with it on the Signal, is not being ablt to use the tool closed - at least the Wave lets me do that

[Aloha]

True, a fixed saw for an outdoor tool makes much more sense. I think ferro rod, removable sharpener and whistle also make sense given the SIgnal's intended use.
I don't think a bit driver makes sense given it's intended use.

Depends how you got there I suppose - on foot, bike, car, boat .... besides which, some stoves and other outdoors gear have screws in.

It's not having drivers I don't agree with, it's having (loseable) bits.

It would be neat for all LM tools with bit drivers to be like the Skeletool, locking the bit in.  I can say that I've never lost a bit and I keep the bit driver extended when I use the tool.  Especially when I know I'll be using the driver soon rather than later.  Keeping a few bits on hand wouldn't hurt not take a terrible amount of space. 

[Aloha]

True, a fixed saw for an outdoor tool makes much more sense. I think ferro rod, removable sharpener and whistle also make sense given the SIgnal's intended use.
I don't think a bit driver makes sense given it's intended use.

Depends how you got there I suppose - on foot, bike, car, boat .... besides which, some stoves and other outdoors gear have screws in.

It's not having drivers I don't agree with, it's having (loseable) bits.

If the fasteners are torx or hex, it's that or a whole other set of tools. My "survival tool" is my Fuse-ilier mod, which has the full Phillips and flats - but I do tend to carry it with the adapter that fits on the phillips, and the small array of LM flat bits that it comes with. I've not needed them yet, but I've not needed my first aid kit often either, and still take that with me  My issue with it on the Signal, is not being ablt to use the tool closed - at least the Wave lets me do that

While I can appreciate your views 50ft,  its a non issue for how I can use the tool.  Heres why, when I open the tool to engage the inner tools, awl, bit driver, or can opener I must open that side of the tool.  Then I open the individual implement and while the tool is open I can, 1. use the tool in a L configuration which give me great control and leverage  2. use the tool inline which actually for me is comfortable.  The tool "acts" like a standard tool in that configuration.  Its not the ideal way inline however its not like it doesnt work.  Again I can appreciate how others use their tools and certainly there is no wrong way.  I'm just saying that not being able to close the tool when using the inside implements when theres a work around should be stated.  Lastly when the tool is opened to engage the inside tools closing the tool may not alway make sense for some.  There are many ways to look at this. 

   
     

[AimlessWanderer]

True, a fixed saw for an outdoor tool makes much more sense. I think ferro rod, removable sharpener and whistle also make sense given the SIgnal's intended use.
I don't think a bit driver makes sense given it's intended use.

Depends how you got there I suppose - on foot, bike, car, boat .... besides which, some stoves and other outdoors gear have screws in.

It's not having drivers I don't agree with, it's having (loseable) bits.

If the fasteners are torx or hex, it's that or a whole other set of tools. My "survival tool" is my Fuse-ilier mod, which has the full Phillips and flats - but I do tend to carry it with the adapter that fits on the phillips, and the small array of LM flat bits that it comes with. I've not needed them yet, but I've not needed my first aid kit often either, and still take that with me  My issue with it on the Signal, is not being ablt to use the tool closed - at least the Wave lets me do that

While I can appreciate your views 50ft,  its a non issue for how I can use the tool.  Heres why, when I open the tool to engage the inner tools, awl, bit driver, or can opener I must open that side of the tool.  Then I open the individual implement and while the tool is open I can, 1. use the tool in a L configuration which give me great control and leverage  2. use the tool inline which actually for me is comfortable.  The tool "acts" like a standard tool in that configuration.  Its not the ideal way inline however its not like it doesnt work.  Again I can appreciate how others use their tools and certainly there is no wrong way.  I'm just saying that not being able to close the tool when using the inside implements when theres a work around should be stated.  Lastly when the tool is opened to engage the inside tools closing the tool may not alway make sense for some.  There are many ways to look at this. 

Oh, there's certainly plenty of different perspectives and preferences 

Open but inline, and the "L" configuration aren't to my taste, but that's not to say they aren't to others.  Personally I don't like the driving force being transmitted through the plier head to get from me to the bit, and I don't like the ergonomics either. If others choose to do so, or find it works better for them, all well and good. Just not for me, that's all

[King_Gorilla]

...
So, basically you would trade one small inside tool for the hammer! I would not call that waste of space!

Btw, that is what I wish from LM, make a Signalwave

I carry a Signal almost every day.  I too would LOVE a "Signalwave" as you put it.   

Just give me the same big blade that is on the Signal now, but plain edge, then give me a file and a dedicated serrated blade.  maybe that cool one with the hook???   
I'll deal with the extra weight.

[Etherealicer]

...
So, basically you would trade one small inside tool for the hammer! I would not call that waste of space!

Btw, that is what I wish from LM, make a Signalwave

I carry a Signal almost every day.  I too would LOVE a "Signalwave" as you put it.   

Just give me the same big blade that is on the Signal now, but plain edge, then give me a file and a dedicated serrated blade.  maybe that cool one with the hook???   
I'll deal with the extra weight.

Exactly, and I predict that this is something we will get... and once it is big, why not go all the way? Make a Signalsurge, I would love that.

[King_Gorilla]

Im gonna mods that hammer adapter like this guy , already ask him permission He say GO FOR IT 
 hahahah forget SignalWave , BLAVE keep add on 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn5YGGsx3gg&t=98s

That is really cool how he made that hammer mod with the sharpener and ferro rod attached.  I still think I would rather wait for them to make a Signal with a file and separate serrated blade. 

The Signal is about 1 ounce lighter than the Wave.  That hammer mod probably adds at least 1.5 ounces of additional weight.  (just guessing)  Even if you added another layer of outside tools to the Signal, I doubt it will be much more than 8.5 ounces total. 
And I really like the Carabiner/hook/bottle opener design that you get with the Signal/Skeletool/Mut tools. 

[magentus]

Handy to have a hammer for small jobs.