Leatherman Signal - is LM making a survival multi?

[Aloha]

Handy to have a hammer for small jobs. 

I think so too.  To me the Signals hammer as well as the MUTs is not so obtrusive as to warrant not having it.  I've certainly used my MT as a hammer on several occasions  .  I'm certainly not taking driving nails or anything of that nature.   

[Syncop8r]

How about the hammer's usefulness out in the wilderness? And before anyone says tent pegs, if it's a survival situation you may not have a tent. And I would rather use a rock anyway.

[Aloha]

How about the hammer's usefulness out in the wilderness? And before anyone says tent pegs, if it's a survival situation you may not have a tent. And I would rather use a rock anyway.

There are certainly other options to pounding a tent peg in.  To me I don't see the Signal as a "survival tool" any more than a Wave or MP400.  I'd say the hammer aspect is great for general camping.  I could just as easily use my hatchet or a rock.  Where the Signal really gets the piss taken from it is the marketing.  I've not been a fan of how they marketed this MT from day one.  Out door tool?  Like I say its really no more effective that a Wave or MP400.  Its really a shame they add ferro rod and claim it as such.  I think were many see the tool as a good tool is thinking beyond what LM wanted to market this tool as.  Seeing past the ferro rod is key when looking at this tool. 

[AimlessWanderer]

How about the hammer's usefulness out in the wilderness? And before anyone says tent pegs, if it's a survival situation you may not have a tent. And I would rather use a rock anyway.

Nuts. Shellfish. Breaking off a piece of natural flint. Driving a wedge to split a branch.

Unlike Aloha, I think it does compromise the usage of the other tools, but I can see how a whacking bat, even a small one, could be potentially useful. Whether it would be more useful than a rock or baton is debateable.

[Syncop8r]

Having the hammer means you can't have a pivot with more tools on it.

I guess the term "survival tool" is a bit silly - shall we call it a camping tool then? Doesn't sound as sexy though. But perhaps more in line with what it will actually be used for.

Did Leatherman really get it so wrong if this is one of their best sellers? At the end of the day their goal is to make money, not create the perfect product.

[ThundahBeagle]

50-Foot stole my "Thundah" when he suggested nuts and shellfish could be crushed open with the hammer. Fortunately, my Surge can be used in much the same way, and it is actually useful otherwise.

Synco, is the Signal really one of Leatherman' s best sellers? I admit that astounds me. I have been interested in it when standing in front of it in REI, but so far, not enough to abandon other choices over it.

Maybe Aloha is right. Survival tool seems a bit ambitious. Perhaps just Hiker' s Friend or Wilderness tool. But Survival means hard core. To me, that means a proper Ferro and a proper file along with what is already there that's good. Maybe a shiny surface to be used for flashing. If you call it the signal, it ought to be able to help you make fire, smoke signals, reflective light signals, and audio signals, each very well. It seems to only be meh in the department for which it was named.

Maybe the hammer if for Morse Code as well as tent stakes and tree nuts?

I'm going off of what I see of the tool, and other people's reviews and comments, of course, but that is only because Leatherman has not made this one good enough at what it is supposed to do so as to be glaringly obvious to me that I need to override a Rebar, ST300, or Surge purchase in favor of the Signal.

[Syncop8r]

Synco, is the Signal really one of Leatherman' s best sellers? I admit that astounds me. I have been interested in it when standing in front of it in REI, but so far, not enough to abandon other choices over it.

I don't know for sure, just that Leatherman says it is one of their best sellers on their homepage (along with the Wave and Surge).
I'm interested in it too, but...

[Aloha]

LM was enthusiastic in their marketing.  Its much like how they count tools on a MT.  Plier have many uses so shall we say there are 5 or 10 plus features in pliers or agree there are many uses. The ferro rod IMO is the only item on the tool that can directly be related to outdoor/survival/camping etc.  I guess one can argue the whistle but shall we then say the wood saw?  When I got one in hand the tool made sense to me.  I've had several come thru my hands and each time I see the tool for what it is aside from the ferro rod and what LM tells me it is.  It may not work for everyone but what tool does?  How many variations of the Swiss Army knives are there?  Hell 2 major companies survived selling similar products as a result of not one tool will satisfy us all.  The pure evolution of the SAK to me demonstrates we dictate what the tool is to be used for.  How many people use a huntsman for hunting?  A soldier in a military scenario?  Looking at what features you like and what you'd like is how many of us come to purchasing a new tool.  I'd certainly like to see a Signal 2.0     

[Syncop8r]

I'd certainly like to see a Signal 2.0   

Let's design one 

[AimlessWanderer]

LM was enthusiastic in their marketing.  Its much like how they count tools on a MT.  Plier have many uses so shall we say there are 5 or 10 plus features in pliers or agree there are many uses. The ferro rod IMO is the only item on the tool that can directly be related to outdoor/survival/camping etc.  I guess one can argue the whistle but shall we then say the wood saw?  When I got one in hand the tool made sense to me.  I've had several come thru my hands and each time I see the tool for what it is aside from the ferro rod and what LM tells me it is.  It may not work for everyone but what tool does?  How many variations of the Swiss Army knives are there?  Hell 2 major companies survived selling similar products as a result of not one tool will satisfy us all.  The pure evolution of the SAK to me demonstrates we dictate what the tool is to be used for.  How many people use a huntsman for hunting?  A soldier in a military scenario?  Looking at what features you like and what you'd like is how many of us come to purchasing a new tool.  I'd certainly like to see a Signal 2.0   

I think marketing it so heavily as a survival tool was just an answer to the pestering they had received from their fan base. I agree all multitools are open to interpretation as to how they are best utilised. The limit to it's usefulness is the extent of your imagination.

Over there you have "crate opener" tools. The part hammer, part axe, part prybar ones. Over here, they usually sell as roofing tools. Personally it is what I would want more than a big knife or pack axe as a survival tool (in the common impromptu camping sense) as I could improvise more solutions with that than with a big knife or axe, and yet still use it for firewood processing and food prep.

If you're going to redesign one, put a hex bit driver in the heel of the hammer so it can be used inline, with a blanking piece for hammer use, and use that handle for bit storage. Wave plier head instead of the Rebar one with the poor cutting geometry, increased splay, and "gripping with cutters" issue. Then.... you still have the issue of not being able to use the other handle tools inline.... crap! Removable hammer head, which sits both in the inline full 1/4" hex driver and rests against the end of the other handle, so the 1/4" shank isn't taking all the force. (and replaceable hammer heads available if damaged or lost) Offer bladed and knifeless options. Make a proper slow tapered awl instead of the smurfwitted half round thing. Lose the 'biner - it just gets under your hand/grip when using the external tools. How many people use it anyway?

[Syncop8r]

Well I'm talking about an Outdoor Survival tool, otherwise it could be anything.

If you're going to redesign one, put a hex bit driver in the heel of the hammer so it can be used inline, with a blanking piece for hammer use

Nope, no need for hex drivers. I'm tempted to lose the hammer too.

Wave plier head instead of the Rebar one with the poor cutting geometry, increased splay, and "gripping with cutters" issue

OK, I don't want to carry replacement cutter anyway.
Also tempted to ditch the pliers altogether...

Offer bladed and knifeless options.

Nope. No deal.

Make a proper slow tapered awl instead of the smurfwitted half round thing.

Agree.

Lose the 'biner - it just gets under your hand/grip when using the external tools. How many people use it anyway?

Agree. I know lots of people love the carabiners, but I can't think of anything worse than a lump of metal swinging around on one.

How do you think we are progressing? 

[Etherealicer]

I agree all multitools are open to interpretation as to how they are best utilised. The limit to it's usefulness is the extent of your imagination.

I'm probably going to make that my new tagline


I don't really see MTs as survival tools other than that they offer a saw and a blade. Maybe I should design a survival tool
In nature you will easily find something to hammer (rock, a thick branch etc...), but I found the small hammer around the house and office rather useful (I mean the external HDD makes a really poor hammer and so does the coffee mug, a large stapler works though). I think the hammer, is what makes the Signal stand out from the crowd. While basically every other MT offers exactly the same tool-selection, the Signal (and Mut) offers something new.

[King_Gorilla]

50ft & Syc,
reading all those suggestions was stressing me out, I might be traumatized!   

Obviously, all this stuff is subjective, but nearly all the stuff you said (except for the Awl part) are all things that I would definitely not want them to do.  I like the big hefty rebar plier head, I haven't done a lot of wire cutting with it but it seems to work well for me.  I LOVE the hammer and carabiner.  It's true that you could use a rock in the woods but the hammer is nice.  I talked on another thread about some weird stuff you can use them for in a more normal urban setting. 

I would totally agree that the ferro rod is small and there are things they could do to improve on the design like add two more outside tools etc.  BUT over-all, If I was to pick one LM product to have in my pocket when I mysteriously woke up in the middle of the woods, It would be a Signal.  I mean, SURE, you can say that the ferro rod, whistle, sharpener, and awl could be improved or made bigger.  Or you could say that something like:  "When I go camping, I always have a ___, that makes the stuff on the signal pointless"  But those same kinds of arguments could be said about any kind of multi tool in any situation.  It's always better to have a tool that is designed for a particular function rather than a MT.  But you dont always have them on you.  The Signal has 4 or 5 things that would be very useful and possibly live-saving if you had nothing else.  I think that's was their thinking when they designed certain parts of the tool.  imho

[Outback in Idaho]

 LM Signal  vs. Survival Knife    

  Okay, so maybe you need to carry both.

[Barry Rowland]

My son has a Signal and I'm impressed!  The blade is scary sharp and the quality is second to none.  I like it's size....just right to hike with.  If only the price was a bit more spousal friendly 

[WiSAKfan]

In my opinion the pricetag is a hurdle when considering the Signal.  I personally think it is priced at least twenty dollars too high, and I just can't think of any reason it is priced higher then the Wave.  If a person could get one with a REI 20% off coupon for example that would put it at the 'right' price point in my book.

I broke my skeletool and wanted something in a similar form factor that had beefier pliers so the Signal was an obvious choice and it fills that role exceptionally well.

How does the Signal do out camping and in survival situations?  I have no idea.  I put the plastic parts back in the packaging the first day I got it and haven't put them back on since nor have I gone camping with it.

Again back to my opinions but I think the marketing of this tool and those plastic bits may have limited people's perceived role this tool is capable of.  The Signal platform's usefulness goes way beyond camping/survival...and sorta ironically there are probably other tools I'd take in those situations over the Signal.

Clipped to my work pants every day in a role as a larger skeletool is where the Signal shows it's prowess.  To me anyway.

[Aloha]

Totally agree W.  The Signal is what you make of it, pretty much like most if not all MTs.  No need to limit the role of the tool because of the ferro rod or whistle while the rest of the tool is solid.  I agree I'd certainly take another MT if I was gonna take a MT into the woods or a hike. 

[Rfehling]

Colt 1911 how well  does the wave blade fit the signal?