Question about 91mm saw / metal file / fishscaler backsprings

[Quartz]

I'm trying to make a custom SAK. I'd like to get a layer with the inline phillips and a backside tool. The inline phillips is wider than any of the saw/file/scaler layers alone. Would it be possible for me to take two of the backsprings from those and put them side by side? How similar are the shapes of those springs, and which backside tools pair up with what? Searching for teardown images is kinda confusing, I think two of the springs might be the same, but I can't tell which because it seems to vary depending on model.

[GigaHz]

Here is an Swisschamp XLT. The ends of the springs seem quite different between the inline phillips and the file/saw. It might work.

[Quartz]

Images like that (and this one here) are my problem- the parts are just kind of in a pile and it's not totally clear how things line up. It looks like the saw and fish scaler have identical springs, but no back tool? This appears to be different from other models like the Craftsman:



I know that the end of the saw/file/scaler springs will be different compared to the one for the phillips. I'm not terribly concerned about that because I figure I can probably grind them to do what I want.

[Quartz]

Also, I can't really tell the thickness on these layers. Are the saw and scaler next to each other at least as thick as the phillips? I know they're both pretty thin on their own.

[GigaHz]

I am pretty sure the file, saw and fish scaler springs are inter changeable. Maybe one is thinner than the others by a bit? I know the saw back spring can have a backside tool or no backside tool. When I get home I can measure the thickness of them all.

[AimlessWanderer]

I have a Champion which has the fish scaler next to the saw, and the fish scaler tool and spring is noticably thinner.

[hiraethus]

I think that two saw springs are the same thickness as the pliers, which is thicker than the Phillips. That's probably the right way round as you can always use a washer next to the Phillips to space it out.

[AimlessWanderer]

I have a Champion which has the fish scaler next to the saw, and the fish scaler tool and spring is noticably thinner.

Best I can measure with what's to hand, is around 1.5mm on the scaler and 1.8mm on the saw

[Quartz]

I think the phillips is like ~2.5mm and the pliers are around 3mm area. So any two should be wide enough? OK.

Next question then is figuring out which models have two springs with the same shape that support some kind of back tool.

[hiraethus]

Swiss champ and ranger for sure - both have wood saws and metal files with back tools.  Handyman and Cybertool 41 too.

[Quartz]

Right, but are the springs the exact same shape? It's not clear to me from the pictures I've found if they're exactly the same, or just close. I don't really want to do any more grinding than I absolutely have to as it'll only make the springs weaker.

[GigaHz]

I think one has a bigger nub on the end to raise the tool for easier opening. Isn't there going to be a big open space opposite the Phillips?

[hiraethus]

File, saw and scaler tools and backsprings from a Swiss champ I took apart earlier this year:


From what I can tell, the file and saw springs are exactly the same.

[Quartz]

OK, thanks. I was hoping the Swisschamp might offer that, as it would give me the inline phillips in the same package.

[Quartz]

Oh, I want to double check something- the saw/file/scaler hinge on the "fat" end of the knife, right? The same end as the bottle opener?

[hiraethus]

Yes, that's right.

[GigaHz]

[enki_ck]

[Quartz]

Oh awesome, thank you! That's exactly what I was envisioning. Which springs did you use from which SAK?

Also, can you post a pic looking "down" so I can get an idea of how much wider the springs are than the phillips? I want to get a feel for what kind of washer(s) I'll need to deal with and to what extent the phillips tip hangs over the edge of the liners.

[Quartz]

Isn't there going to be a big open space opposite the Phillips?

I plan on cutting off the pin holes on that end of the springs and putting some other tool there (haven't really decided what though). What I want to avoid is having two springs with different shaped nubs on the end I put the phillips on- I'll have to grind them down so they're both even before the tool will pivot correctly, and if I make the nubs too thin they're likely to snap after a few years of use.

[GigaHz]

The standard file/saw backspring. Screw driver I get 2.75mm. 1.7mm for the spring.

[GigaHz]

I get 1.8mm for the saw and file. Fish I get 1.55mm.

[Quartz]

Wait I'm confused, the saw/file is 1.8mm wide but the springs for them are only 1.7?

[GigaHz]

Yup fairly normal. They want the tool tight, but the spring floats in side a bigger hole. Also the springs are thicker in the middle than at the ends.

[Quartz]

Urk. I swear every time I come up with an idea there's always a gotcha. Now that I think about it, it makes sense that the springs have to be faintly thinner so that they can move freely. This means I'll need a thicker spacer on the phillips (and whatever other tool I put on the opposite end) to compensate. Still doable, but I'll have to be more careful about measuring. I worry about the overall thickness of the layer, but I guess it can't possibly be worse than the bit driver on the cybertool.

Thanks for your help btw.

[GigaHz]

I used the older longer screw driver too, not the new one.

[Quartz]

The new and old drivers are only different in length and position catch, right? (Thickness is the same?) I'm assuming any knife I buy new would have the new driver.

Oh, and when you say "The standard file/saw backspring"... that doesn't explain it to me The normal champ, champ XLT, craftsman, etc all seem to do it differently. I want to make sure whatever knife I buy to chop up has what I need in the right combination. (I'm hoping these were from a normal champ, as that looks like the best donor otherwise).

[GigaHz]

I think they are all the same. XLT Swisschamp and Craftsman all have the same file saw backside tool spring. Now with no back side tools, there are at least 3 versions. thick, thin and nubs and no nubs. Here is a bunch from, your guess is as good as mine.

[GigaHz]

I think you need the gray mag glass ones to get the old long Phillips. I get the same thickness on old and new style.

[GigaHz]

Scissor spring.